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Transpennine woes and a moan...

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Msq71423

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The 06:15 service that day terminated at Sheffield as the Driver was unwell, not because it was late. The unit was promptly put in the sidings. The same train on Tuesday was delayed 35 minutes behind a broken down train, yet continued through to Cleethorpes as booked.

As for the train running in service to Sheffield then empty to Cleethorpes, that is most likely due to there being no Conductor from Sheffield. The train may still need to be taken to Cleethorpes for end of service or to form another service later that does have a full crew.

TPE don't currently pay any fines due to the nature of their contract, so it's more likely they'll run trains despite delays rather than terminating them short as they once would.

Even so, before Covid, the threshold for terminating a train short due to a delay was high. It would have to be 45+ minutes late before they considered it.
Thank you for this clarification, and the explanation for the service I used on Thursday - perhaps the issue I described didn't apply to my two potential examples, although as I mentioned I have (at work on more than one occasion) recently witnessed trains been getting cancelled when running 20minutes late rather than have them run late with senior colleagues explaining they would sooner cancel than operate with a delay over 15mins due to penalties. I stand corrected this reason perhaps didn't apply in the examples I gave though, but having witnessed it happen I perhaps wrongly assumed the same thing was happening on the south route.
 
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Grumpy Git

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A little moan about the TPE staff at Manchester Airport.

I arrived into Manchester airport yesterday and until I had retrieved my luggage from the carousel, I wasn't in a position to buy my (Advance) train ticket. When my case did arrive, it was less than 15 minutes before the next departure of a Northern service from MIA. I managed to buy an Advance on my 'phone as I made my way to the station. I got an acknowledgement email more of less straight-away, just as I got to the station, but when I got to the gateline, the actual email with the ticket PDF attached had not arrived. I tried to explain this to the TPE platform staff member who was stood on the platform side of the barrier and showed her the acknowledgement, but she wasn't interested and just kept bawling 'you need a ticket, you need a ticket'. I explained that the departure was imminent, but there was no way in a hundred years she was opening the barrier! Fortunately the email arrived about 30 second later, so I was able to get through and board the train about 30 seconds before it departed.

Is it me or are all the TPE staff at MIA hopeless (I was previously told by one of them why I was asking about a Northern service when it was 'nothing to do with them').
 
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Llanigraham

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A little moan about the TPE staff at Manchester Airport.

I arrived into Manchester airport yesterday and until I had retrieved my luggage from the carousel, I wasn't in a position to buy my (Advance) train ticket. When my case did arrive, it was less than 15 minutes before the next departure of a Northern service from MIA. I managed to buy an Advance on my 'phone as I made my way to the station. I got an acknowledgement email more of less straight-away, just as I got to the station, but when I got to the gateline, the actual email with the ticket PDF attached had not arrived. I tried to explain this to the TPE platform staff member who was stood on the platform side of the barrier and showed her the acknowledgement, but she wasn't interested and just kept bawling 'you need a ticket, you need a ticket'. I explained that the departure was imminent, but there was no way in a hundred years she was opening the barrier! Fortunately the email arrived about 30 second later, so I was able to get through and board the train about 30 seconds before it departed.

Is it me or are all the TPE staff at MIA hopeless (I was previously told by one of them why I was asking about a Northern service when it was 'nothing to do with them').

No. sounds like she was doing her job; you need a ticket and what you had at that time wasn't that. In fact I recall it actually tells you that.
 

sportzbar

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A little moan about the TPE staff at Manchester Airport.

I arrived into Manchester airport yesterday and until I had retrieved my luggage from the carousel, I wasn't in a position to buy my (Advance) train ticket. When my case did arrive, it was less than 15 minutes before the next departure of a Northern service from MIA. I managed to buy an Advance on my 'phone as I made my way to the station. I got an acknowledgement email more of less straight-away, just as I got to the station, but when I got to the gateline, the actual email with the ticket PDF attached had not arrived. I tried to explain this to the TPE platform staff member who was stood on the platform side of the barrier and showed her the acknowledgement, but she wasn't interested and just kept bawling 'you need a ticket, you need a ticket'. I explained that the departure was imminent, but there was no way in a hundred years she was opening the barrier! Fortunately the email arrived about 30 second later, so I was able to get through and board the train about 30 seconds before it departed.

Is it me or are all the TPE staff at MIA hopeless (I was previously told by one of them why I was asking about a Northern service when it was 'nothing to do with them').
Well....... technically she was right. You didn't have a ticket. But......! Common sense should have prevailed here. I'd say just have a moan (as you are doing now) to get it off your chest.

Clearly she was doing her job to the letter in denying you access but I'm sure that unless things have changed, there is definitely no part of the training course that all employees on the gate line have to go through that trains then in "bawling".

However you didn't say what her demeanour was when your ticket came through. Did the "bawling" change into a "nice as pie" over the top, almost Disney like employee, or was she bog standard 1980s British Rail?
 

td97

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I managed to buy an Advance on my 'phone as I made my way to the station. I got an acknowledgement email more of less straight-away, just as I got to the station, but when I got to the gateline, the actual email with the ticket PDF attached had not arrived.
It sounds like your issue is with the ticket retailer. If their ticket delivery is too slow for your expectations, use a different retailer. Perhaps one with the functionality to display the e-ticket immediately in an app, so you aren't waiting on an email to come through.
TPE gateline staff were right to deny you access without a valid ticket, and it is probably stated on the booking confirmation email that that email it is not your ticket.
 
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Sorry, but from this description it seems that the gateline staff were doing what the railway asks them to do: no valid ticket, no travel. Not what perhaps what passengers want to hear, but the rule is that you need a ticket, not an email confirmation, to get through the barriers. This is the case anywhere on the network, not just at MIA.

Recall that ADV tickets, like all other types, can be changed right up to departure so there is no certainty that an email confirmation would be for a ticket which is still valid on that departure, ie. it might have been changed. The ticket is the only proof that a valid booking exists. ADV fares offer a discount because they are tied to a particular train. It is the passenger's responsibility to be sure that they can get to the train in time, at the risk of having to pay for a new ticket if they don't. So, really, tickets perhaps need to be bought perhaps a little further in advance than seems to have happened here, or a flexible ticket purchased. Some retailers' apps, of course, won't let pax buy tickets of any type for trains within 15 mins of departure because of the potential delay in sending an e-ticket to head off problems of this kind. This approach could be adopted more widely, but the better approach as per td97 is to use a retailer that can provide instant tickets within the app?
 

Grumpy Git

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I guess I’m too used to the helpful staff at Liverpool South Parkway who go out of their way to open the wide barrier when they see you with luggage.
 

Dr Hoo

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I guess I’m too used to the helpful staff at Liverpool South Parkway who go out of their way to open the wide barrier when they see you with luggage.
Genuine question. Do they ever check tickets when someone has luggage?
 

mike57

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Genuine question. Do they ever check tickets when someone has luggage?
Certainly the internal gateline at Man Picc Plat 13/14 used to and upset people (insert stronger word) in the process. On one occasion a lady managing suitcases and two children gave them a right mouthful
 

Grumpy Git

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Genuine question. Do they ever check tickets when someone has luggage?
Yes, they generally take a look. I'd liken it to the difference between an on-board check with a paper ticket, i.e. a cursory glance, (whereas an e-ticket check seems much more stringent)?

In fact I'm amazed at a lot of the guards in the 50+ age bracket who don't wear spectacles. I certainly couldn't read a paper ticket without them, (i.e. age related long sightedness due to being an old git)!

In my defence of hoping the TPE person would do the right thing, Northern have been making 100% on-board inspections of late on all my journies (approx. 10 in the last week), so I wouldn't have got far if I had been taking the Michael.
 
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Dr Hoo

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Certainly the internal gateline at Man Picc Plat 13/14 used to and upset people (insert stronger word) in the process. On one occasion a lady managing suitcases and two children gave them a right mouthful
Thanks.

(In the context of various other threads and themes, triggered by comments about Manchester Airport station - operated by Transpennine Express if I understand correctly - in particular; I was wondering about the usefulness of having (and staffing) barriers at an airport station if passengers 'with luggage' are just waved through the wide gate(s) anyway, on the Liverpool South Parkway principle.)
 

DanNCL

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TPE are currently telling people that are trying to get to Scotland via the WCML to use the Tyne Valley. They clearly aren’t aware of the accident that happened at Petteril Bridge then!
 

800001

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TPE are currently telling people that are trying to get to Scotland via the WCML to use the Tyne Valley. They clearly aren’t aware of the accident that happened at Petteril Bridge then!
And people wonder why customers get angry which in correct information.
 

Mcr Warrior

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TPE are currently telling people that are trying to get to Scotland via the WCML to use the Tyne Valley. They clearly aren’t aware of the accident that happened at Petteril Bridge then!
Might still be quicker using the rail replacement buses.
 

800001

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Might still be quicker using the rail replacement buses.
Which they could of got from Edinburgh or Glasgow (if they are running), instead of 90 min on a train to Newcastle, then slow northern then the bus replacement.
I’d be very annoyed if I had been routed via Newcastle then to Carlisle.
 

worc_passr

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Some years ago I was on a train (the train) Heysham Port to Lancaster. A group of four Canadians had come in on the ferry from the Isle of Man. They had an email confirmation of their tickets from Heysham to Glasgow. But no tickets - this was pre smart phones and there was no ticket machine at Heysham Port. The conductor was demanding that they buy tickets to Lancaster from him. I took the Canadians' side. He eventually retreated. Reading the comments above - was I in the wrong?

At Lancaster, I managed to get the Canadians upstairs into the up-side ticket office,extract two pairs of tickets from the machine, across the bridge (they had North American quantities of luggage) and up to their coach at the far end of the northbound platform, all in under ten minutes!

On the (Virgin) train to Glasgow, no-one asked to see these tickets.
 

Fokx

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I guess I’m too used to the helpful staff at Liverpool South Parkway who go out of their way to open the wide barrier when they see you with luggage.
With the greatest of respect to the staff at Liverpool South Parkway, they aren’t the best example of how to correctly operate a ticket gate.

Although friendly, at LSP you’re usually greeted by a permanently open gate, a ticket flash, and said staff have no facilities to sell tickets or fine passengers who don’t have tickets, they send them to the ticket office after the barriers.
 

Watershed

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Some years ago I was on a train (the train) Heysham Port to Lancaster. A group of four Canadians had come in on the ferry from the Isle of Man. They had an email confirmation of their tickets from Heysham to Glasgow. But no tickets - this was pre smart phones and there was no ticket machine at Heysham Port. The conductor was demanding that they buy tickets to Lancaster from him. I took the Canadians' side. He eventually retreated. Reading the comments above - was I in the wrong?

At Lancaster, I managed to get the Canadians upstairs into the up-side ticket office,extract two pairs of tickets from the machine, across the bridge (they had North American quantities of luggage) and up to their coach at the far end of the northbound platform, all in under ten minutes!

On the (Virgin) train to Glasgow, no-one asked to see these tickets.
Technically speaking, even if there aren't ticketing facilities your origin station, you still have to buy a ticket when asked, and are not entitled to collect your ticket onboard (or at your destination or interchange station).

That being said, it seems eminently reasonable for discretion to be exercised given the circumstances.
 

londonbridge

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Sunderland playing an away league fixture at Huddersfield tonight. The 22:17 TPE to Newcastle is showing as cancelled. The only alternative is the 22:46 LNER, presumably there’ll be ticket acceptance on the 22:46? Unless TPE are gonna put on a replacement bus or shell out for taxis…..
 

800001

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Sunderland playing an away league fixture at Huddersfield tonight. The 22:17 TPE to Newcastle is showing as cancelled. The only alternative is the 22:46 LNER, presumably there’ll be ticket acceptance on the 22:46? Unless TPE are gonna put on a replacement bus or shell out for taxis…..
There is blanket ticket acceptance in place with LNER:-

Proactive ticket acceptance has been agreed to allow TransPennine Express for their customers to travel on LNER weekday services, in both directions, on the following routes until Sunday 27 November [Inclusive]



  • Between York / Edinburgh, with the exception of the Aberdeen and Inverness services .


  • Between Leeds / Doncaster, this is to support their customer journeys between Hull and Leeds .


  • Between York / Middlesbrough, including Thornaby.


Please note that TransPennine Express customers should continue to only be directed to use LNER services where their booked TransPennine Express train is either cancelled or short-formed. Customers should always be advised to travel on their booked service in the first instance
 

londonbridge

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Ta…..although real-time trains still lists the 22:17 as running whereas it’s cancelled everywhere else.
 

Watershed

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Ta…..although real-time trains still lists the 22:17 as running whereas it’s cancelled everywhere else.
As always, RTT is not the best at showing cancellation statuses, as it uses a different feed to what passengers see on station running boards, apps etc. (Darwin) As a condition of using the live train describer/TRUST data, it is legally unable to use Darwin data.

It's completely ridiculous, but arises from the industry's obsession with things like hiding platforms from passengers.
 

londonbridge

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Apparently TPE are saying that tickets will not be accepted on the 00:20 connection from York to Newcastle.
 
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800001

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Apparently TPE are saying that tickets will not be accepted on the 00:20 connection from York to Newcastle.
If they have cancelled there last train, and there is an LNER (presume Gaby’s what the 0020) is, then yes there tickets will be valid.
 

BPN2022

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Sunderland playing an away league fixture at Huddersfield tonight. The 22:17 TPE to Newcastle is showing as cancelled. The only alternative is the 22:46 LNER, presumably there’ll be ticket acceptance on the 22:46? Unless TPE are gonna put on a replacement bus or shell out for taxis…..
I’d be amazed if many away travelling football fans bother with trains weeknights nowadays. Most fans I know have started to use coaches - even more so on Saturdays. Cheaper, and more reliable. It’ll soon become the norm and more business lost for the railway.
 

DanNCL

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There is blanket ticket acceptance in place with LNER:-

Proactive ticket acceptance has been agreed to allow TransPennine Express for their customers to travel on LNER weekday services, in both directions, on the following routes until Sunday 27 November [Inclusive]



  • Between York / Edinburgh, with the exception of the Aberdeen and Inverness services .


  • Between Leeds / Doncaster, this is to support their customer journeys between Hull and Leeds .


  • Between York / Middlesbrough, including Thornaby.


Please note that TransPennine Express customers should continue to only be directed to use LNER services where their booked TransPennine Express train is either cancelled or short-formed. Customers should always be advised to travel on their booked service in the first instance
TPE should have requested this from LNER (and for that matter Northern, XC, EMR and Avanti) long ago, it's a poor show from TPE that it's taken them til now to do something.

On the ECML TPE just need to do something about Thirsk, Chester-le-Street and Reston now. But I won't get my hopes up!
 

800001

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TPE should have requested this from LNER (and for that matter Northern, XC, EMR and Avanti) long ago, it's a poor show from TPE that it's taken them til now to do something.

On the ECML TPE just need to do something about Thirsk, Chester-le-Street and Reston now. But I won't get my hopes up!
They have had this blanket acceptance for about the last 6 months.
 
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