Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[_toommm_]

It's not exactly the same. Doors will go red, the orange stripe will be replaced with a red one, but logos at the end rather than in the middle. Also a red stripe along the top of the carriage I believe. The ex LNER sets will be repainted aswell.

Ah fair enough, I wasn’t sure if the liveries like the one you’d posted that I’d seen on Twitter were official be not.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's not exactly the same. Doors will go red, the orange stripe will be replaced with a red one, but logos at the end rather than in the middle. Also a red stripe along the top of the carriage I believe. The ex LNER sets will be repainted aswell.

Now that looks quite nice, but the state they're in at the moment - and the black and red locomotive - don't.
All over black is so odd when most of their fleet is white though. It's just laziness and not wanting to vinyl/paint over the black.
OK, they may want to distinguish "Intercity trains," but other than subjective comfort preferences - at which I prefer a 175 - the only distinguishing features is the presence of a buffet car, which I do not believe warrants a new livery.

 

[fgwrich]

It's not exactly the same. Doors will go red, the orange stripe will be replaced with a red one, but logos at the end rather than in the middle. Also a red stripe along the top of the carriage I believe. The ex LNER sets will be repainted aswell.

Better hope Canton maintains that Air Conditioning well, otherwise it'll be nice and toasty in Summer!

Another rather lazy effort from TfW - yes, I understand the reasons behind it, but it's a bit of a fudge.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Better hope Canton maintains that Air Conditioning well, otherwise it'll be nice and toasty in Summer!

Another rather lazy effort from TfW - yes, I understand the reasons behind it, but it's a bit of a fudge.

I don’t know if it’s laziness, probably more cost driven.

I don’t mind having a different colour scheme, it’s better than having the same on everything, like the drab GWR green.

 

[Techniquest]

Posted about my sighting of a GC set out today in the general TfW refurb thread, but it makes sense to share some photos from Hereford of 67025 and the GC set that I saw earlier. Imagine my surprise when I walked down the hill and saw the DVT, as I'd forgot about the training runs! I was on the way back from a CityStrides coverage mission, just made it to grab some photos and video as it left

 

[43102EMR]

Better hope Canton maintains that Air Conditioning well, otherwise it'll be nice and toasty in Summer!

Another rather lazy effort from TfW - yes, I understand the reasons behind it, but it's a bit of a fudge.

I think the Mk4 livery looks rather nice and it’s good to see a separate brand being rolled out for the Premier/IC services, but the 67 was a rather poor effort. That does make me wonder whether TfW will repaint/vinyl the 67s and DVTs they’ve already done?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I think the Mk4 livery looks rather nice and it’s good to see a separate brand being rolled out for the Premier/IC services, but the 67 was a rather poor effort. That does make me wonder whether TfW will repaint/vinyl the 67s and DVTs they’ve already done?

That is the plan yes. All Mk4 stock will be in the black and red.

 

[Mainline421]

What are the ex-GC sets like internally? Haven't seen any photos about

 

[victormildrew]

I noticed that the ex GC sets had 5 coaches + dvt, just lately there is only 4 + dvt any reason for this as i thought there was going to be 5 + dvt sets on the Cardiff/ Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[43096]

I noticed that the ex GC sets had 5 coaches + dvt, just lately there is only 4 + dvt any reason for this as i thought there was going to be 5 + dvt sets on the Cardiff/ Manchester Piccadilly.

Yes - there's been an extensive discussion earlier in this thread about short platforms, the need for Selective Door Operation (SDO) and crew training on the SDO system. All the sets will eventually become 67+5+DVT.

 

[43102EMR]

What are the ex-GC sets like internally? Haven't seen any photos about

There are some photos floating around the internet of the interior, but they were refurbished to the same design as the 180s by Alstom at Widnes (albeit with the same seat bases, screens etc. as when they left LNER)

 

[anamyd]

I noticed that the ex GC sets had 5 coaches + dvt, just lately there is only 4 + dvt any reason for this as i thought there was going to be 5 + dvt sets on the Cardiff/ Manchester Piccadilly.

I don't know the reason, but someone said a while back in this thread that all the sets will be 4-coach initially, and later made 5-coach.

 

[craigybagel]

What are the ex-GC sets like internally? Haven't seen any photos about

There are photos available at this link here

I noticed that the ex GC sets had 5 coaches + dvt, just lately there is only 4 + dvt any reason for this as i thought there was going to be 5 + dvt sets on the Cardiff/ Manchester Piccadilly.

They will be 5 coaches eventually but the expectation is they'll be entering service initially as 4 coaches (with 1st class declassified on Manchester services so as to not be a reduction in capacity over a 3 car 175). 5 coaches requires fitting all sets with SDO, training crews, and I'm assuming in some locations new or relocated stop boards.

 

[AlexNL]

All over black is so odd when most of their fleet is white though. It's just laziness and not wanting to vinyl/paint over the black.

Black background with red elements on it has featured in TfW's branding before, albeit in a less prominent way. The colour combination certainly isn't new and I think it looks pretty smart. To me, using black+red is a cost effective way of applying the brand without doing something out of tone.

My particular favourite is the red pinstripes which will be applied along the body, another clever application of one of the TfW brand elements.

And at the same time, because these trains will work a very specific type of service their distinct livery will help distinguish the service from the other TfW services.

 

[Envoy]

I think the black & red livery is horrible. Black will also show all the dirt - just as it does on black cars.

If they are writing Welsh in bold and English second in faint lettering - that is discrimination. I thought the Welsh Language Act said that both languages should have equal status.

 

[AlexNL]

If they are writing Welsh in bold and English second in faint lettering - that is discrimination. I thought the Welsh Language Act said that both languages should have equal status.

It isn't really, legally you can get by in English just as well as you can do in Welsh.

There is a system in place in Wales which promotes the use of their language, the Welsh Language Commissioner is set up to coordinate the use of the language. Promoting the use of Welsh is one of the things which public organisations in Wales are required to do, and by subtly emphasising the Welsh language TfW are doing just that.

And they have been doing so for quite a while already. Look at any bilingual TfW publicity and you'll quickly see that in one way or another, Welsh gets emphasised over English. Welsh always comes first, and English text may be printed in a smaller font or with a lighter colour.

 

[43096]

And they have been doing so for quite a while already. Look at any bilingual TfW publicity and you'll quickly see that in one way or another, Welsh gets emphasised over English. Welsh always comes first, and English text may be printed in a smaller font or with a lighter colour.

It’s lunacy though. It’s a public transport system, not a minority language promotion scheme and information needs to be clearly presented so that it can be assimilated and understood quickly. That means the majority language should be presented at least as prominently as the minority language. Rummaging around in the small(er) print to find what you need because Dripford & Co are promoting a minority language is not a way to run a transport system.

 

[victormildrew]

Yes - there's been an extensive discussion earlier in this thread about short platforms, the need for Selective Door Operation (SDO) and crew training on the SDO system. All the sets will eventually become 67+5+DV

Yes - there's been an extensive discussion earlier in this thread about short platforms, the need for Selective Door Operation (SDO) and crew training on the SDO system. All the sets will eventually become 67+5+DVT.

Thank you for that info, all clear now.

 

[Sheridan]

I think the black & red livery is horrible. Black will also show all the dirt - just as it does on black cars.

If they are writing Welsh in bold and English second in faint lettering - that is discrimination. I thought the Welsh Language Act said that both languages should have equal status.

Having them at different thicknesses aids the legibility of both of them, compared to if they were exactly the same. The English is perfectly clear.

 

[43102EMR]

I think the black & red livery is horrible. Black will also show all the dirt - just as it does on black cars.

If they are writing Welsh in bold and English second in faint lettering - that is discrimination. I thought the Welsh Language Act said that both languages should have equal status.

Personally to me it suits the Mk4s - the real issue is the 67s. The red ratio is just completely off, doesn’t blend in with the black very well.

 

[XAM2175]

Having them at different thicknesses aids the legibility of both of them, compared to if they were exactly the same. The English is perfectly clear.

Yes, the exactly equal presentation on road signs in Wales makes them far harder to comprehend, compared with the presentation methods used in Ireland (English all in uppercase, Irish in mixed case and italicised) or Scotland (English in white or black and Gaelic in yellow or green depending on background).

 

[sd0733]

67020+HD05 are planned to leave Crewe tomorrow with the empty stock to Holyhead then should enter service on 5:33 off Holyhead Monday.

HD01 is expected to be stood down when it gets to Crewe and will head off in due course for SDO fitting.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

67020+HD05 are planned to leave Crewe tomorrow with the empty stock to Holyhead then should enter service on 5:33 off Holyhead Monday.

HD01 is expected to be stood down when it gets to Crewe and will head off in due course for SDO fitting.

If I may ask, is HD05 a black set?

 

[sd0733]

If I may ask, is HD05 a black set?

Yes it's a plain black set with the orange stripe removed amd the black loco too. The DVT now wears Remeberance day vinyls.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes it's a plain black set with the orange stripe removed amd the black loco too. The DVT now wears Remeberance day vinyls.

Great thanks. I’ve not been on 020 so may go for a ride.

 

[tomm]

Are there going to be 5 Grand Central DVTs for TFW. I noticed 82227 passed through Hereford

 

[SuperLuke2334]

67020+HD05 are planned to leave Crewe tomorrow with the empty stock to Holyhead then should enter service on 5:33 off Holyhead Monday.

HD01 is expected to be stood down when it gets to Crewe and will head off in due course for SDO fitting.

I definitely look forward to this! May even go down to the station to see it on its first service!

Quick edit, do you know if HD01 will go for a repaint while it is away?

2nd edit that's just came to mind: I could have sworn HD01 arrived at Crewe last week and it is HD02 on the transfer tomorrow. Is it definitely 01 being stood down or 02?

 

[tomm]

Or is it just Grand Central 82227 one going to TFW which passed through Hereford yesterday.

 

[sd0733]

Are there going to be 5 Grand Central DVTs for TFW. I noticed 82227 passed through Hereford

There's 4 Grand Central sets, HD04-HD07

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I definitely look forward to this! May even go down to the station to see it on its first service!

Quick edit, do you know if HD01 will go for a repaint while it is away?

2nd edit that's just came to mind: I could have sworn HD01 arrived at Crewe last week and it is HD02 on the transfer tomorrow. Is it definitely 01 being stood down or 02?

Can't see any extra work than SDO fitting. They are needed back in service for December but can't say for sure

HD01 is the plan but, its the one which would have gone out tomorrow so its that one which 05 has effectively replaced.

 

[tomm]

There's 4 Grand Central sets, HD04-HD07

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==


Can't see any extra work than SDO fitting. They are needed back in service for December but can't say for sure

HD01 is the plan but, its the one which would have gone out tomorrow so its that one which 05 has effectively replaced.

Which ones