Transpennine woes and a moan...

[175001]

Yet another shocking start to the working week by a company being allowed to get away with it. The screens at Man Vic from 0600 were showing nearly nothing by TPE running other than a handful scattered throughout the hours.

 

[Killingworth]

Yet another shocking start to the working week by a company being allowed to get away with it. The screens at Man Vic from 0600 were showing nearly nothing by TPE running other than a handful scattered throughout the hours.

On South Pennine not helped by no EMR Sheffield-Liverpool services all day and a Northern service missing as well.

The Covid recovery is now being killed by self harm.

 

[mike57]

Same problem at York, a service left for Man Airport at about 6.30, next service to Manchester appears to have been at 08:49. So travellers hoping to catch the 06:49 which is a service I use when visiting the NW would be looking at a 2 hour wait.

 

[Foxcover]

On South Pennine not helped by no EMR Sheffield-Liverpool services all day and a Northern service missing as well.

The Covid recovery is now being killed by self harm.

Exactly that. My daughter, a regular Saturday and Sunday Liverpool/Chester to Manchester traveller, passed her driving test today, and her words were ‘no more trains, thank goodness.‘ EMR and Northern’s showing this weekend was particularly awful, with Newton-le-Willows to Manchester closed, and EMR and Northern both sending the morning peak services out of Lime St with just 2 cars via Warrington Central. Rammed, late and unhealthy. TPE, who could feasibly have helped with diesel capacity, just didn’t show up at all. It will take the railway years to recover - not from covid but from the way it’s treated people with no alternative in the last two years.

 

[pnepaul]

As usual numerous cancellations on the Liverpool, Manchester Airport to Glasgow, and Edinburgh route today. Two 397 sets in the sidings at Preston and 2 in the centre lines at Carlisle were not a great advert lol.

 

[kels430]

43 full cancellations and 31 part cancellations today, it’s got to the point where the entire route is unusable and passengers won’t come back if they feel like the “reason” for delay is a lie.

 

[175001]

Broken rail at Huyton this morning didn't help things.

But other than that, there is just no excuse

 

[kels430]

Broken rail at Huyton this morning didn't help things.

But other than that, there is just no excuse

I agree broken rails are fine and it’s something we just can’t predict, short notice change to the timetable is just a kick in the teeth to passengers now though.

 

[tb5345346]

43 full cancellations and 31 part cancellations today, it’s got to the point where the entire route is unusable and passengers won’t come back if they feel like the “reason” for delay is a lie.

All part of the "plan" by the current government

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've been watching this thread with interest as I haven't suffered the worst of TPE's troubles on the Leeds to Huddersfield stoppers... until today.

Walked to Batley station for the 1801 to Huddersfield to find it had been cancelled, so a £5 taxi to Dewsbury and the 1827 Liverpool (currently 9 late at the time of writing) which hopefully won't be too full to board. Cancellations all over the shop, and my journey home after the match is looking precarious.

Given our current form, TPE might be doing me a favour though!

 

[nr758123]

Nearly a 6 hour gap with no services at Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite tonight, with 7 trains in a row cancelled. I managed to get on the last train home tonight, 1730 from Piccadilly, 1745 from Stalybridge, but some passengers were left on the platform at Piccadilly. It feels like TPE have given up.

 

[VauxhallNova]

Here's the detail of the situation at Marsden, from realtimetrains...

Realtime Trains | Departures from Marsden all day on 18/10/2022

Train information at Marsden all day on 18/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[northernchris]

I've been watching this thread with interest as I haven't suffered the worst of TPE's troubles on the Leeds to Huddersfield stoppers... until today.

Walked to Batley station for the 1801 to Huddersfield to find it had been cancelled, so a £5 taxi to Dewsbury and the 1827 Liverpool (currently 9 late at the time of writing) which hopefully won't be too full to board. Cancellations all over the shop, and my journey home after the match is looking precarious.

Given our current form, TPE might be doing me a favour though!

TPE had practically given up on westbound departures from Leeds during the evening peak, with the 1745 Airport, 1747 Huddersfield and 1807 Piccadilly all cancelled.

Nearly a 6 hour gap with no services at Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite tonight, with 7 trains in a row cancelled. I managed to get on the last train home tonight, 1730 from Piccadilly, 1745 from Stalybridge, but some passengers were left on the platform at Piccadilly. It feels like TPE have given up.

That is poor! And the Christmas markets haven't started yet which could increase passenger numbers

 

[nr758123]

That is poor!

The vicar cycled back from Manchester (over Standedge, in the dark) because he couldn't take his bike on the rail replacement bus.

 

[johnnychips]

The vicar cycled back from Manchester (over Standedge, in the dark) because he couldn't take his bike on the rail replacement bus.

Bible Gateway passage: John 8:12 - English Standard Version

I Am the Light of the World - Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Solent&Wessex]

And there are numerous reports of passengers being left stranded in the situations described above, where the last trains are cancelled. There are repeated reports from different locations of passengers with pre-booked tickets turning up for their trains and being told there are no more trains this evening, there is no replacement transport, you can either put it for a full refund of your ticket or come back in the morning and use it then instead.

Dreadful.

 

[mike57]

3 hour gap between Scarborough and York this morning., 09:34 to 12:34. I decided to cancel my visit to the NW today, its too uncertain. 06:49 York to Liverpool seems to be a permanent casualty so with an 05:34 departure from Scarborough you now get to Manchester Vic at 08:38 and Pic at 08:51. Thats well over 3 hours for Scarborough - Manchester which is about an hour longer than pre 2018.

To me cancelling trains after tickets have been sold and then failing to deliver the service or an alternative in the case of last trains is 'sharp practice' It may be strictly within the rules, but the rules need changing so that at the very least the last services on routes runs or alternatives are provided even if the TOC have to resort to taxis to get everyone home.

 

[greyman42]

Does anyone know if the 2201 from Newcastle will run tonight?

 

[Watershed]

3 hour gap between Scarborough and York this morning., 09:34 to 12:34. I decided to cancel my visit to the NW today, its too uncertain. 06:49 York to Liverpool seems to be a permanent casualty so with an 05:34 departure from Scarborough you now get to Manchester Vic at 08:38 and Pic at 08:51. Thats well over 3 hours for Scarborough - Manchester which is about an hour longer than pre 2018.

To me cancelling trains after tickets have been sold and then failing to deliver the service or an alternative in the case of last trains is 'sharp practice' It may be strictly within the rules, but the rules need changing so that at the very least the last services on routes runs or alternatives are provided even if the TOC have to resort to taxis to get everyone home.

It's not within the rules in any sense; the NRCoT don't purport to limit the right to assistance under 28.2 based on the PToD "exception".

 

[43066]

It's not within the rules in any sense; the NRCoT don't purport to limit the right to assistance under 28.2 based on the PToD "exception".

But 28.2 refers to assistance during disruption (which unhelpfully isn’t defined). Presumably they would argue that cancellation in PToD doesn’t count as disruption, on the basis that a service that isn’t timetabled doesn’t exist in the first place, so cannot really be said to be “disrupted”?

For the record, I completely agree that this is a shoddy practice and frankly a dirty trick - and I’m not trying to defend it before the inevitable accusation. I’m just not sure how you can really argue it’s against the rules, unless I’m missing something?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Does anyone know if the 2201 from Newcastle will run tonight?

according to Genius that train is running this evening. I cannot see any internal cancellation messages for that train today

 

[7522]

Does anyone know if the 2201 from Newcastle will run tonight?

That was not listed on the pre planned cancellations for today but it is now cancelled on jounrey check. They cancelled it at 7:54 tonight. So if you are still looking to travel then you will probably have to catch the 22:45 Lner service to York or there is the 22:23 Northern service as far as Darlington but that one will possibly be overcrowded due to match day.

 

[Watershed]

But 28.2 refers to assistance during disruption (which unhelpfully isn’t defined). Presumably they would argue that cancellation in PToD doesn’t count as disruption, on the basis that a service that isn’t timetabled doesn’t exist in the first place, so cannot really be said to be “disrupted”?

For the record, I completely agree that this is a shoddy practice and frankly a dirty trick - and I’m not trying to defend it before the inevitable accusation. I’m just not sure how you can really argue it’s against the rules, unless I’m missing something?

I'm sure that some adventurous TOCs might try that, if pressed. But clearly that would not be a very strong argument - the service did exist, even if cancelled the night before departure. And so from the passenger's perspective they are still disrupted regardless of how much or little notice they get.

Undefined terms of course take their 'ordinary' meaning, i.e. what would the man on the Clapham omnibus think. And I highly doubt that our bus passenger would say this isn't disruption.

That is aside from the fact that there are obligations under consumer law, contract law and the PRO. Overall, just a non-starter.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That was not listed on the pre planned cancellations for today but it is now cancelled on jounrey check. They cancelled it at 7:54 tonight. So if you are still looking to travel then you will probably have to catch the 22:45 Lner service to York or there is the 22:23 Northern service as far as Darlington but that one will possibly be overcrowded due to match day.

Typical!

 

[Purple Train]

Are the TPE services between Manchester and Hull affected much by disruption, or is that route getting off relatively lightly?

 

[Pennine_40]

Are the TPE services between Manchester and Hull affected much by disruption, or is that route getting off relatively lightly?

Does the attached answer your question? And these are today's pre-planned cancellations as of last night, more were canx during the day.
From early eve, these are the only trains which serve the local stations btwn Manchester and Huddersfield. We've had practically no service beyond 1800 the last two days.

 

[nr758123]

Are the TPE services between Manchester and Hull affected much by disruption, or is that route getting off relatively lightly?

Yes, and no, in that order.

Nearly a 6 hour gap with no services at Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite tonight, with 7 trains in a row cancelled. I managed to get on the last train home tonight, 1730 from Piccadilly, 1745 from Stalybridge, but some passengers were left on the platform at Piccadilly. It feels like TPE have given up.

And a similar level of disruption tonight 19/10/22. At long last some of our politicians have picked up on this and managed to get some media coverage, though Mayor Brabin has known about it for a while as she experiences it daily on her commute to and from work.

Unreliable train services in north of England ‘ruining people’s lives’

Avanti and TransPennine Express users ‘badly let down’ by cancellations and delays

www.theguardian.com

Commuters and local leaders in the north of England have spoken out about the “ongoing fiasco” of cancelled and delayed trains, which are “ruining people’s lives”.

The mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, said users of Avanti and TransPennine Express train services were being greeted with “a shrug of the shoulders” when complaining about services.

“And we can’t allow that to happen,” he said, speaking to LBC.

“I was a minister and I would have rightly been dragged over the coals if this was the performance of a service that I was responsible for.”

The West Yorkshire mayor, Tracy Brabin, and the shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, also criticised the train companies.

The government should “claw back” taxpayers’ money being used to subsidise trains that are not running, Haigh said, after a third of TransPennine Express trains were cancelled on Tuesday.

Haigh said: “This ongoing fiasco is causing real damage to the public, passengers and the economy.

“Ministers must stop washing their hands of responsibility and intervene.

“They should demand a plan from TransPennine Express for the urgent improvement and restoration of vital services, and claw back taxpayers’ money being handed over for trains that are no longer running.”

Brabin said Tuesday’s train cancellations were “typical of the daily struggles faced by commuters in the north of England” and that her own TransPennine Express train home was cancelled.

She said: “We’re fed up with being badly let down by a failing rail network that isn’t meeting our needs. This is especially unacceptable when our economy needs all the support it can get.”

 

[Purple Train]

Does the attached answer your question? And these are today's pre-planned cancellations as of last night, more were canx during the day.
From early eve, these are the only trains which serve the local stations btwn Manchester and Huddersfield. We've had practically no service beyond 1800 the last two days.

Yes, and no, in that order.

Thanks

 

[mike57]

44 cancellations and 5 more partial ones showing on their website this morning, and thats before you add in the ones that get cancelled during the day, and bear in mind that the current timetable is maybe 70% of the pre-covid timetable. Service is unusable, you cannot plan with the current level of disruption. Problem is its not a one off event caused by an external incident, its day on day the same, and its been like this since the May 2018 timetable change, with a short 'respite' during the peak of the covid epidemic.

 

[hibtastic]

Supposed to be travelling from Stalybridge to Leeds today but it looks as though every service on the Hull route (the one that stops at Stalybridge) has been cancelled with National Rail blaming train crew issues