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Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

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GS250

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Hunt....last seen getting absolutely thrashed by Boris in the leadership contest.

I suppose as serial losers go...Biden has proved you can get there in the end. There's hope we might have a Jeremy as PM yet. I think Clarkson is out of the running these days though....
 
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oxfordray1

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Newsnight opened with a montage of Truss and Kwarteng with Sacrifice by Elton John playing. Brilliant!
 

brad465

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So turns out Kwarteng found out from the media that he was being sacked, before Truss actually said to him he was:


Kwasi Kwarteng had no idea it was coming. After a seven-hour overnight flight from Washington he emerged from Heathrow smiling for the cameras before his meeting with Liz Truss.

Sixteen minutes later he was sitting in his ministerial car on the way back to London when The Times broke the news that he was about to be sacked. He arrived in Downing Street shortly after noon, by then cutting a glum figure.

The prime minister told him that despite their decade-long friendship and shared economic vision, she had no choice but to sack him. He had lost the confidence of the markets and the parliamentary party and had to go. In a single, brutal stroke she sacrificed one of her oldest political allies for expediency and in the hope of survival.

Kwarteng was sanguine but is said privately to believe the decision will buy her only a few more weeks. “He thinks the wagons are circling,” a source said.

Truss, friends say, found it incredibly painful but decided it had to be done. She believes the combination of the sacking and reversing her pledge to freeze corporation tax will be enough to convince markets that the government is serious about fiscal restraint.

In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.

Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.

Hunt took a Eurostar back to London, arriving on British soil shortly after 1pm. He met Truss to formally cement his role just after 4pm.

The genesis of today’s extraordinary sequence of events and the sacking of Kwarteng lies in the draft forecasts of the Office for Budget Responsibility, which were handed to the government on Friday last week. They are said to be “dire” and suggest there will be a £60 billion black hole in public finances by 2026-27.

With the markets already in turmoil, 10 and 11 Downing Street accepted that the forecasts could be enough to finish off Truss. The chancellor was advised by No 10 not to attend the International Monetary Fund’s meeting in the US but decided he had to go.

While he was away, No 10 began urgent work on the corporation tax U-turn. The first Kwarteng knew about it was yesterday morning, when The Times disclosed that senior officials were advising Truss to raise corporation tax to try to balance the books.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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nw1

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Please, let's not have another Tory foisted on us without a general election.

If Truss is replaced, the agreement should be that there is a general election in the spring to see if we really want Truss's successor or whether we'd now prefer an entirely different party.
 

LowLevel

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Please, let's not have another Tory foisted on us without a general election.

If Truss is replaced, the agreement should be that there is a general election in the spring to see if we really want Truss's successor or whether we'd now prefer an entirely different party.
Agreed. Debacle after debacle has destroyed their mandate to govern.

Collapse the Government, call an election and see who has the mandate to try and sort things out.
 

nlogax

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With Hunt installed as the relatively competent and sane part of this dog's breakfast Truss has no further role but to cosplay as PM for a little while longer before being quietly shuffled out of the door. I give her three weeks, four at best.
 

GS250

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Please, let's not have another Tory foisted on us without a general election.

If Truss is replaced, the agreement should be that there is a general election in the spring to see if we really want Truss's successor or whether we'd now prefer an entirely different party.

As someone who has generally held their nose and voted Tory, I totally agree, there needs to be an election.

Like most who have voted for them I'm not wedded to the party. I just want a government that's competent and is basically not a total embarrassment like the current one is.
 

DelayRepay

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Please, let's not have another Tory foisted on us without a general election.

If Truss is replaced, the agreement should be that there is a general election in the spring to see if we really want Truss's successor or whether we'd now prefer an entirely different party.
I agree there should be a General Election, but there's no mechanism to force one. The Tory party won't support one now because it would be a disaster for them. So we will have another Tory PM installed, who may well be Jeremy Hunt, who will be in office until 2024. I would imagine this time they will engineer a situation where there are no other candidates therefore no party member vote is required.
 

nw1

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I agree there should be a General Election, but there's no mechanism to force one. The Tory party won't support one now because it would be a disaster for them. So we will have another Tory PM installed, who may well be Jeremy Hunt, who will be in office until 2024. I would imagine this time they will engineer a situation where there are no other candidates therefore no party member vote is required.

It depends how unhappy the public and the opposition are.

If not holding an election causes their popularity to nosedive further (as many, I suspect, will perceive this as an act of unbelievable arrogance - I was speaking to people with fairly centrist politics at work about this) then they might believe that it's best to save their reputation and hold one.

Doubly so if they impose a new PM without even going through a full leadership contest.

And one also has to remember that it could be better for the Tories long term to have an election soon. Have an election soon, and they might be back in by 2028 (hopefully as a more moderate, centre-right party). Hold off until the latest possible date, they may be out for considerably longer.
 
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Busaholic

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With Hunt installed as the relatively competent and sane part of this dog's breakfast Truss has no further role but to cosplay as PM for a little while longer before being quietly shuffled out of the door. I give her three weeks, four at best.
A good Xmas stocking filler would be '101 Uses for a Liz Truss' book, should anyone be able to come up with the other 99. What is the point of her?
 

DynamicSpirit

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Rather amusingly, I just checked some dates...

Boris Johnson resigned on 7 July. Nominations for Tory leader opened and closed on 12 July, with ballots closing on 2 Sept. So Liz Truss spent 7 weeks and 3 days as a candidate campaigning to be Tory leader.

She became PM on 6 Sept. If she can manage to hang on until 28 October she'll have achieved the 'milestone' of spending longer as Prime Minister than she spent as a candidate campaigning for the job. :lol:
 

nw1

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Rather amusingly, I just checked some dates...

Boris Johnson resigned on 7 July. Nominations for Tory leader opened and closed on 12 July, with ballots closing on 2 Sept. So Liz Truss spent 7 weeks and 3 days as a candidate campaigning to be Tory leader.

She became PM on 6 Sept. If she can manage to hang on until 28 October she'll have achieved the 'milestone' of spending longer as Prime Minister than she spent campaigning for the job. :lol:

Presumably Truss will hang on longer than that, as I doubt many will stand for an imposition of a PM from on-high without some sort of contest.
 

Cowley

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I agree there should be a General Election, but there's no mechanism to force one. The Tory party won't support one now because it would be a disaster for them. So we will have another Tory PM installed, who may well be Jeremy Hunt, who will be in office until 2024. I would imagine this time they will engineer a situation where there are no other candidates therefore no party member vote is required.

I wonder if more sections of the press instead of revelling in the chaos of it could perhaps start ramping up the pressure to call a general election sooner rather than later? You could say that that’s not particularly democratic but then neither is this as Truss wouldn’t have got anywhere near Number 10 if it’d been down to the public.

Even if they stretch this out to the full term the end result will be Truss being voted out convincingly.
 

GS250

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For me seeing that classic Tory wet Jeremy Hunt back in the limelight was the last straw. A watered down version of Macron/Trudeau but with the same authoritarian attitude. We learned a lot about the colours of politicians during covid and whether they were libertarian or authoritarian. He was very much in the latter category.
 

nw1

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Hunt was essentially a Cameron/Osborne style pro-austerity type.

Would calm the markets and satisfy the IMF, I suspect - but I doubt he could win an election.
 

GS250

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I wonder if more sections of the press instead of revelling in the chaos of it could perhaps start ramping up the pressure to call a general election sooner rather than later? You could say that that’s not particularly democratic but then neither is this as Truss wouldn’t have got anywhere near Number 10 if it’d been down to the public.

Even if they stretch this out to the full term the end result will be Truss being voted out convincingly.

The MSM will only ever do what suits their paymasters the best. Whilst the current goings on are not a good look, as long as the haves are happy, the status quo will be maintained. It may be that the MSM still don't believe that a Labour government will serve the interests of the wealthy few hence why the aren't crying out for Starmer to be installed at number 10.

Look at how the majority of the MSM turned onto Corbyn during the last week of polling. They couldn't have cared less about the country as a whole, just the fact that their ivory towers might have been under threat a little more with JC in charge.
 

nw1

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I wonder if more sections of the press instead of revelling in the chaos of it could perhaps start ramping up the pressure to call a general election sooner rather than later? You could say that that’s not particularly democratic but then neither is this as Truss wouldn’t have got anywhere near Number 10 if it’d been down to the public.
I would actually say, in fact, that having a general election soon is very democratic. It's five-year stints in government that are not. An election is asking the people who they want, so it's the very definition of democracy. The alternative to an election, i.e. keeping Truss on until 2024 (or replacing her with Hunt, Sunak or whoever) is certainly not democratic in any way, as you say.

The Tories were voted in at the end of 2019. A lot has changed since then. It's wrong, and undemocratic, to assume that just because people voted in Johnson three years ago, they still want the Tories now.
 

Cowley

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I would actually say, in fact, that having a general election soon is very democratic. It's five-year stints in government that are not.

The Tories were voted in at the end of 2019. A lot has changed since then. It's wrong, and undemocratic, to assume that just because people voted in Johnson three years ago, they still want the Tories now.

That’s how it feels to me too. If they know that they’re going to get trounced in an election then democratically speaking that’s exactly what needs to happen. They’re worried about their jobs but the rest of us are worried about our country.
 

nw1

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That’s how it feels to me too. If they know that they’re going to get trounced in an election then democratically speaking that’s exactly what needs to happen. They’re worried about their jobs but the rest of us are worried about our country.

Indeed. And (with the caveat that I am in no way a Tory supporter) they need to play the long game.

Impose Hunt or Sunak (or whoever) on us and keep them on until 2024 (or at worst, Jan 2025 but I can't see another winter election happening) and they will be seen as incredibly arrogant and desperate for power. The Tories will then be out, I suspect, for 10 to 15 years.

By contrast if they adopt "mea culpa" and call, say, an April 2023 election, they will of course lose but they can then go and regroup, and perhaps they come back as soon as 2027 or 2028.
 

Cowley

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Indeed. And (with the caveat that I am in no way a Tory supporter) they need to play the long game.

Impose Hunt or Sunak (or whoever) on us and keep them on until 2024 (or at worst, Jan 2025 but I can't see another winter election happening) and they will be seen as incredibly arrogant and desperate for power. The Tories will then be out, I suspect, for 10 to 15 years.

By contrast if they adopt "mea culpa" and call, say, an April 2023 election, they will of course lose but they can then go and regroup, and perhaps they come back as soon as 2027 or 2028.

They also need to have a clear out of some of the poor quality that they have in some of the top jobs. As we’ve seen over the last few years having a weak opposition does the country no good whatsoever.
 
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