Could Open Access Operators operate on HS2?

[Fazaar1889]

moderator note - split from:

HS2 construction updates

As LNW-GW Joint posted in another thread, Euston is closed 26-27 August for HS2 work so it seems we need another thread to cover the construction of HS2! What work is this weekend closure likely to cover? Will there be working at night as well or will it just be weekend closures for a while?

www.railforums.co.uk

Could open-access operators run on the HS2 lines? Similar to Lumo (London to Edinborough) or Italo in Italy? I think it could become a viable alternative to cheap domestic flights.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Could open-access operators run on the HS2 lines? Similar to Lumo (London to Edinborough) or Italo in Italy? I think it could become a viable alternative to cheap domestic flights.

Would depend on capacity and take-up of paths by the DfT HS2/WCML operator (presently Avanti).
But it seems unlikely the HS2 operator will use all 18tph paths with the cut-back of the eastern and Golborne legs.
So capacity is likely to be available to Birmingham, and to Manchester when the HS2 extension is built.
But capacity on to the classic WCML will be limited as it is now.

Open access might also be viable on the classic WCML (south) when Avanti transfers to HS2.

 

[zwk500]

In principle, yes. Whether they can come up with a practical proposal is another matter.

 

[Roast Veg]

Open access might also be viable on the classic WCML (south) when Avanti transfers to HS2.

A codeshare transfer service from Manchester airport to Heathrow on the WCML would be a ecologically sound move.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A codeshare transfer service from Manchester airport to Heathrow on the WCML would be a ecologically sound move.

I must admit I like the idea of a codeshare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit I like the idea of a codeshare.

Bit of thread crossover, but really all the major airline alliances should codeshare onto HS2 normal services (not just a few open access ones) and we can then get rid of Manchester to London domestic flights and probably reduce the Glasgow ones a bit.

 

[Roast Veg]

Bit of thread crossover, but really all the major airline alliances should codeshare onto HS2 normal services (not just a few open access ones) and we can then get rid of Manchester to London domestic flights and probably reduce the Glasgow ones a bit.

As long as the OOC transfer is well signed, that would be a great solution too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Bit of thread crossover, but really all the major airline alliances should codeshare onto HS2 normal services (not just a few open access ones) and we can then get rid of Manchester to London domestic flights and probably reduce the Glasgow ones a bit.

As long as the OOC transfer is well signed, that would be a great solution too.

Yes great ideas.

 

[Winthorpe]

I read the other day that Delta / TransPennine Express are starting an Air+Rail scheme:

Delta Air Lines is partnering with TransPennine Express to bring its Air+Rail programme to the UK, connecting northern and Scottish cities to the US via Manchester Airport.

Here's how you can now book a trip from Lancaster to the US on one ticket

A new partnership has launched which sees Lancaster travellers able to buy a combined rail and air ticket to America.

www.lancasterguardian.co.uk

Let's hope HS2 put in place a similar scheme with airlines at Heathrow / Manchester...

 

[zwk500]

I read the other day that Delta / TransPennine Express are starting an Air+Rail scheme:

Let's hope HS2 put in place a similar scheme with airlines at Heathrow / Manchester...

I expect Airlines will be looking at HS2 with great interest, especially once it reaches Manchester Airport. However the need to offer 2 connections from Heathrow (Elizabeth Line & HS2) may restrict the opportunities.

 

[Winthorpe]

I expect Airlines will be looking at HS2 with great interest, especially once it reaches Manchester Airport. However the need to offer 2 connections from Heathrow (Elizabeth Line & HS2) may restrict the opportunities.

I suppose Birmingham Airport will be the big winner. The 38 minutes journey time to Euston will turn it into an extra London airport.

 

[zwk500]

I suppose Birmingham Airport will be the big winner. The 38 minutes journey time to Euston will turn it into an extra London airport.

Certainly from phase 1. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of Airlines are looking to offer Loyalty points on HS2 tickets and other similar incentives.

 

[Winthorpe]

I wouldn't be surprised if lots of Airlines are looking to offer Loyalty points on HS2 tickets and other similar incentives.

Let's hope so.

 

[camflyer]

I read the other day that Delta / TransPennine Express are starting an Air+Rail scheme:

Some airlines in the US are even doing Air+Bus services for short connections to hubs mostly driven by pilot shortages but it also allows them to offer through-ticketing to towns which can't support an air service.

United and American Airlines are among companies introducing bus services on some routes, a report says

One new bus route offered by United is set to ferry passengers from Denver to smaller cities, such as Breckenridge and Fort Collins.

www.businessinsider.com

United and American Airlines are among companies introducing bus services on some routes, a report says​

• Some US airlines are introducing a bus travel service on short routes.
• United and American signed contracts with the bus-as-flight company Landline, Bloomberg reported.

 

[Winthorpe]

Some airlines in the US are even doing Air+Bus services for short connections to hubs mostly driven by pilot shortages but it also allows them to offer through-ticketing to towns which can't support an air service.

Thanks, very interesting. I didn’t know about this.

 

[camflyer]

Thanks, very interesting. I didn’t know about this.

This AMERICAN AIRLINES flight is actually a BUS!​

 

[Winthorpe]

This AMERICAN AIRLINES flight is actually a BUS!​

Thanks @camflyer - I enjoyed that video. Whetted my appetite for a trip to the States as well.

 

[MattRat]

So capacity is likely to be available to Birmingham, and to Manchester when the HS2 extension is built.

With the current Piccadilly plans, there won't be capacity in Manchester.

 

[Bald Rick]

In theory - probably not. It would be very difficult to find a market that passed the ‘not primarily abstractive’ test fir anything that used HS2. Certainly not in competition with Domestic air, fir which the only possible markets are Glasgow and Edinburgh.

In practice - almost certainly not. An OA operator would have to lease an HS2 spec train, and they will not be cheap.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In practice - almost certainly not. An OA operator would have to lease an HS2 spec train, and they will not be cheap.

Fully HS2 spec, or just a UK gauge high speed train? For instance a 373?

But then brand new 80x are the train of choice for OAOs now, and I doubt those are much cheaper.

 

[JonathanH]

Fully HS2 spec, or just a UK gauge high speed train? For instance a 373?

How many paths would a 373 take up on HS2 relative to the purpose built stock?

 

[Bald Rick]

Fully HS2 spec, or just a UK gauge high speed train? For instance a 373?

360kph top speed with ETCS and ATO (plus much more). A 373 doesn’t come close.