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Class 172 Production Progress

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tbtc

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Im under the impression there are lots of issues with LM172s.. What fans of gangway connecting doors dont realise is that it ruins the Drivers enviroment.
Not just space but visual too. Plenty of Signals on the right hand side on the LM172s routes.

I realise this, but building two coach trains with no corridor connection means there's a decent chance that they will be used in multiple at some time over the next couple of decades... its a trade off between driver and passenger.
 
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The Snap

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That LM172, will that be out tomorrow?

Quite possibly, it didn't look far off. Having said that, I believe there is a big problem with the supply of seating, so it may have to wait on that basis.

From what I was told yesterday, it takes no more than 10 days to complete each individual car/vehicle, so I suspect there are a few units due in the coming weeks.
 

Flywaver

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I realise this, but building two coach trains with no corridor connection means there's a decent chance that they will be used in multiple at some time over the next couple of decades... its a trade off between driver and passenger.

A dangerous trade off. Drivers should be driving trains with a Cab. Not a cubby hole.
 

anthony263

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Wasn't there something about ATW drivers based in west wales complaining about driving some of the class 153's due to the crampped cabs a few months ago?
 

Rhydgaled

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Wasn't there something about ATW drivers based in west wales complaining about driving some of the class 153's due to the crampped cabs a few months ago?
I've read in the past that the cab at one end of a 153 is exceptional small, due to the units not being designed as single cars and as such only having 1 cab per car originally. Therefore this is a bit of a special case.

A dangerous trade off. Drivers should be driving trains with a Cab. Not a cubby hole.
Can also be looked at as a dangerous trade off the other way, what if you couple 2x 2-car units together and have to stop at a very short platform? The practice of pulling in twice seems to have been abandoned outside preserved railways. Similarly, with somthing like a 158 you can join 2 units from different start points A and B together, run through stations C and D and then split them to 2 destonations E and F, meaning passengers do not need to disembark to change trains to get from A or B to either E or F, they can just walk through into the appropriate unit. With the high preferances for direct trains over changing, this is probablly quite a useful feature.

Also I generally prefer the appearance of corridor-fitted units (158, 150/2, 155) over block-ended units (150/1, 170, 175 etc.). 125mph+ units, with their more streamlined fronts, mostly look alright though.
 

YorkshireBear

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Also I generally prefer the appearance of corridor-fitted units (158, 150/2, 155) over block-ended units (150/1, 170, 175 etc.). 125mph+ units, with their more streamlined fronts, mostly look alright though.
completely agree with you
i really dont like the 150's without them dont look like sprinters to me at all.

If they joined and seperated more in stations gangways would be essential. Doesnt seem to happen very often.
 

jopsuk

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at Cambridge it is services run with non-gangway stock (FCC 365s) that split/join in service, whilst the services run with gangway stock (317s, mainly NXEA) only join and split whilst out of service- I don't think NXEA run any any West Anglia services that join or split at any location.
Signal sighting as a reason for not having a gangway is an interesting one- as I understood it, this is partly why the 360s don't have gangways (whislt the later-built350/2s do), yet the 379s have been getting tested on the GE.
 

anthony263

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This has just been posted on WNXX :

Train Schedule 5Z72
19:45 Derby Adtranz Litchurch Ln to Wembley Lmd
Schedule
FullHalts Now
Location Working
Schedule Act/Est Dly
DrbYALl 19:45
Drby 19:50 20:10
Drbyww 20:15
Spdn 20:20
SheetSJ 20:27
TrentJ 20:28
RatclfJ 20:30
Loghbro 20:39
SilebyJ 20:45
SystnSJ 20:50
Lester 21:00
WgstnNJ 21:05
MrktHrb 21:17
Ketr 21:30
Wlngbro 21:37
SnbkJn 21:49
BedfdN 21:59
BedfdM 22:01 22:08
Bedfds 22:10
Flitwck 22:21
Luton 22:33
StAlbCy 22:49
SlkstrJ 23:01
Hdon 23:07
BrentCJ 23:11
DudngHJ 23:17
NeasJn 23:19 23:24
WembGCJ 23:27 23:28
WembLMD 23:32

Looks like it could be one of the chiltern class 172's
 

Peter Sarf

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at Cambridge it is services run with non-gangway stock (FCC 365s) that split/join in service, whilst the services run with gangway stock (317s, mainly NXEA) only join and split whilst out of service- I don't think NXEA run any any West Anglia services that join or split at any location.
Signal sighting as a reason for not having a gangway is an interesting one- as I understood it, this is partly why the 360s don't have gangways (whislt the later-built350/2s do), yet the 379s have been getting tested on the GE.

On the Southern I have noticed more and more 455s with the end door blanked off. That makes them look VERY UGLY. I think the internal doors were disabled a long time ago anyway. That means these units have all the disadvantages (the driver still has a narrow view AND there is no corridor connection) and none of the advantages.

The 4-car 455s often run in pairs or sometimes with two 2-car 456s (which never had end doors) infact I have often seen three 456s together !. The only service regularly with a single 456 is the London Bridge-Victoria shuttle. So I wonder why they were built as two car anyway and, given that the 456s have a toilet (mind you I think they are ALL locked out of use) its a shame they dont have end doors and that the 455s have theirs blanked off.

So its a bit of a miracle anything gets built nowadays with end doors. IMO end doors should be the norm and it should only be poosible to not have these with adequate justification (i.e. long/fast units). We are forced to have disabled friendly loos and dot matrix displays with large enough text. Why make people who are confined to a wheelchair use trains/stations its horrible enough on a cold wet day for me - how much would it cost to send them all the way by taxi ?. I would have thought end doors in an emergency/breakdown would be more use to more people and more likely to save lives. So all 172s should have gangway-connections / end-doors.
 
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Pumbaa

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A dangerous trade off. Drivers should be driving trains with a Cab. Not a cubby hole.

It is well noted. The new 380s help with that somewhat - the reclined gangway connection and semi-streamlined nose give a far greater field of view than any of the current stock with protruding gangway equipment, and give greater crash protection for the driver.

Cubby holes have been around for a while, and feature on some of the most successful modern classes; the 375s, 377s, 379s, 350s, 444s, 450s, 442s, 458s, as well as the old BR DMUs such as 156s that feature narrow width cabs to accommodate the gangway.

Drivers have managed fine for years with them, so I'm sure all the new drivers will cope fine with the 172s after they've stopped moaning ;)
 

Voyager 2093

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This has just been posted on WNXX :

Train Schedule 5Z72
19:45 Derby Adtranz Litchurch Ln to Wembley Lmd
Schedule
FullHalts Now
Location Working
Schedule Act/Est Dly
DrbYALl 19:45
Drby 19:50 20:10
Drbyww 20:15
Spdn 20:20
SheetSJ 20:27
TrentJ 20:28
RatclfJ 20:30
Loghbro 20:39
SilebyJ 20:45
SystnSJ 20:50
Lester 21:00
WgstnNJ 21:05
MrktHrb 21:17
Ketr 21:30
Wlngbro 21:37
SnbkJn 21:49
BedfdN 21:59
BedfdM 22:01 22:08
Bedfds 22:10
Flitwck 22:21
Luton 22:33
StAlbCy 22:49
SlkstrJ 23:01
Hdon 23:07
BrentCJ 23:11
DudngHJ 23:17
NeasJn 23:19 23:24
WembGCJ 23:27 23:28
WembLMD 23:32

Looks like it could be one of the chiltern class 172's

It is.
 

westcoaster

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On the Southern I have noticed more and more 455s with the end door blanked off. That makes them look VERY UGLY. I think the internal doors were disabled a long time ago anyway. That means these units have all the disadvantages (the driver still has a narrow view AND there is no corridor connection) and none of the advantages.

The 4-car 455s often run in pairs or sometimes with two 2-car 456s (which never had end doors) infact I have often seen three 456s together !. The only service regularly with a single 456 is the London Bridge-Victoria shuttle. So I wonder why they were built as two car anyway and, given that the 456s have a toilet (mind you I think they are ALL locked out of use) its a shame they dont have end doors and that the 455s have theirs

The 465's have had there toilets removed and had 2 sets placed there instead.
The 455's centre doors have been removed and a cab cooling/ flush front fitted, so now have better viewing then before, plus the benefit of cab cooling which the units were not there before.
 

cslusarc

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I was wondering since it seems that HM Government want to begin further electricification on the National Railway Network, will the 172 be the last 100 mph interurban DMU built for the next decade. I can see that there will be demad for 60 mph light weight DMU tram-trains and 125 mph intercity DMUs but not for 100 mph interurban DMUs as they are cascaded from one operator to another for example. I believe that ScotRail will not have any need for any 100 mph interurban DMUs if all planned railtrack electrification occurs.
 

fgwrich

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It is well noted. The new 380s help with that somewhat - the reclined gangway connection and semi-streamlined nose give a far greater field of view than any of the current stock with protruding gangway equipment, and give greater crash protection for the driver.

Cubby holes have been around for a while, and feature on some of the most successful modern classes; the 375s, 377s, 379s, 350s, 444s, 450s, 442s, 458s, as well as the old BR DMUs such as 156s that feature narrow width cabs to accommodate the gangway.

Drivers have managed fine for years with them, so I'm sure all the new drivers will cope fine with the 172s after they've stopped moaning ;)

Have to say though - i prefer the cab of a Desiro to the cab of a 377/379! At least on the Desiro you dont have the wall of computer & screens which seems to be another feature of the Bombardier stock - Also out of preferance find the Desiro cabs a neater design...
 

Flywaver

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I am a Driver. Ive done Loco's and units,gangwayed and Non.
Gangwayed ive had water coming through. One flew open at 60mph.
There was a fatality where the body trapped the female Driver after coming through the door. Remember the 158 hitiing the Footbridge at Barrow? Took the Fire brigade an age to free the Driver....
I can understand from Passengers point of view though as you lot arent in the cab so you cant compare...
 

Pumbaa

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And I'm fairly sure the new ones are nowhere near as bad. So if you don't like driving something that makes you feel like a washing machine, don't drive 'em!
 

ukrob

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That is a design problem, not an inherent problem with gangwayed units.
 

Kneedown

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That is a design problem, not an inherent problem with gangwayed units.

I can't comment on the latest Desiro's or Electro/Turbostars, but up to and including all Sprinters, no one has yet been able to design a leak and draught free gangway door no matter what new seals they've tried to put in. Sounds like an inherent problem to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And I'm fairly sure the new ones are nowhere near as bad. So if you don't like driving something that makes you feel like a washing machine, don't drive 'em!

He's lucky, he doesn't have to as his Co got all the 170's ;)
 

jopsuk

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I can't comment on the latest Desiro's or Electro/Turbostars, but up to and including all Sprinters, no one has yet been able to design a leak and draught free gangway door no matter what new seals they've tried to put in. Sounds like an inherent problem to me.

Admitedly these trains are significantly wider- by 20-40cm- than our loading gauge allows, but this and this have gangway connectors (honestly!), whilst this is a whole different approach
 

ukrob

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I can't comment on the latest Desiro's or Electro/Turbostars, but up to and including all Sprinters, no one has yet been able to design a leak and draught free gangway door no matter what new seals they've tried to put in. Sounds like an inherent problem to me.

Nope, design problem (admittedly widespread). Other countries manage just fine. Not seen any complaints about more modern stock such as 350s (although there might be of course) etc.
 

Flywaver

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I can't comment on the latest Desiro's or Electro/Turbostars, but up to and including all Sprinters, no one has yet been able to design a leak and draught free gangway door no matter what new seals they've tried to put in. Sounds like an inherent problem to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


He's lucky, he doesn't have to as his Co got all the 170's ;)

Indeed! :) Just want a bit more oomph from them then ill be :D
 

Skimble19

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Not sure why but that just looks a lot better than the LO units, less cheap.. Odd to see theres a WSMR set with 67 still attached behind it though, would have thought DB would have moved the 67s by now..
 

Voyager 2093

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Not sure why but that just looks a lot better than the LO units, less cheap.. Odd to see theres a WSMR set with 67 still attached behind it though, would have thought DB would have moved the 67s by now..

I think some ex-WSMR sets are being retained for the promised London - Birmingham Loco Hauled services.
 
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