Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[najaB]

But it does seem that if we're at the stage of the government having to tell people things like 'turn your heating down and you'll use less energy' then we've got very serious problems as a nation. I'd hope most people could work that out for themselves.

Oh, that part I agree. However, we're potentially past the "save some money" stage and heading to the "keep the lights from going out" stage.

 

[MikeWM]

It doesn’t need to be a vast majority. We have (or had, I don’t know the state of broadcast ads) government adverts about speeding or smoking or when to file taxes. I think there’s enough of a minority who needs to hear it, regardless of why they need to.

I think you have to seriously wonder about anyone whose thought process is 'well, I was going to break the law and speed, but now I've heard a government ad telling me not to, I guess I won't'. Does anyone actually think like that?

When to file taxes is a bit different, because it isn't a habit with us the way it is in the USA for example. I don't recall seeing/hearing any government adverts about filing taxes in the US because everybody knows the deadline is April 15th.

--

That says more about the education system than the individuals who need telling.

I'd certainly agree that if there are people who don't understand the absolute basics of existence, or have some degree of ability in critical thinking, then that is a severe problem with the education system, and we should be concentrating on fixing that.

I've often thought that the education system should spend some % of time doing something along the lines of 'how to exist in the real world'. It is quite bizarre that it doesn't, really.

 

[nw1]

Frankly, if you saying that you hate Tories per se, then you're making yourself no better than someone who hates - say - black people, or foreigners.

While I wouldn't claim that "I hate Tories" (I might claim "I detest the policies, attitude and arrogance of Truss", though) there is a very big difference here between Tories and minority groups well known for being the target of prejudice.

Right-wing members of the Tory party are people with certain political opinions which might be offensive to some, for arguably good reasons. Typical minority groups are not. As a consequence, having a low opinion of selected Tories is clearly infinitely more justified than racism or xenophobia and certainly cannot be put in the same pot, so to speak.

 

[Magdalia]

I recall Private Eye 10-15 years ago had a regular column called something like 'Keeping The Lights On' where they pointed out continually that our energy policies were going to cause significant issues in the future.

And it still does!

 

[nw1]

I realise you were replying to a post about keeping warm, but I thought you were replying to @Urobach's post above! I know we don't get to pick the caretaker prime minister, but if we did I would vote for a cat over Grant Shapps any day.

And Truss, of course.

As for Shapps, while I'm not a fan I doubt things would be worse under him. Plus as a Sunakist maybe he's a little more sensible.

 

[Gloster]

And it still does!

‘Keeping the Lights On’ has moved up from being somewhere in the middle of the news section to the second page, which covers the most important matters. It has displaced the coverage of Covid, which had been in that spot for the last two years.

 

[SynthD]

Does anyone actually think like that?

I was ignoring how they got to the point of needing to be told.

 

[XAM2175]

But it does seem that if we're at the stage of the government having to tell people things like 'turn your heating down and you'll use less energy' then we've got very serious problems as a nation. I'd hope most people could work that out for themselves.

I think you continue to overlook the fact that the situation has moved on from "here are simple tips to help you save money" and is now approaching "please help us to avoid actually having to 'ration' electricity".

The former, I agree, is a message that is already accessible and that won't really benefit from additional exposure, but the latter is entirely within my view of important messages from government.

 

[DelayRepay]

I think you have to seriously wonder about anyone whose thought process is 'well, I was going to break the law and speed, but now I've heard a government ad telling me not to, I guess I won't'. Does anyone actually think like that?

I don't think like that, but there have been occasions when one of those ads has been on the radio while I've been driving, and they do act as a reminder to check my speed. So I don't think they're completely pointless.

I've often thought that the education system should spend some % of time doing something along the lines of 'how to exist in the real world'. It is quite bizarre that it doesn't, really.

I agree. We had a long discussion on the energy bills thread about the worrying lack of basic understanding about how to work out how much energy things use, how direct debits are calculated etc, so I won't repeat all of that here. What I will say in the context of the energy campaign is that although it's obvious to most people that turning the temperature down reduces energy usage, there are still a lot of people who get confused about this. For example some people believe it's better to leave the heating on low 24 hours a day rather than just having it on when it's needed. So I can see value in a campaign that tells people how to save energy, rather just that they should save energy, if that makes sense.

Of course, there's an easy solution... just do a campaign in the style of 'Look him in the eyes'. Across the land that will save millions of KwH, as everyone turns their TV off to avoid seeing it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2022 ==

I think you continue to overlook the fact that the situation has moved on from "here are simple tips to help you save money" and is now approaching "please help us to avoid actually having to 'ration' electricity".

The former, I agree, is a message that is already accessible and that won't really benefit from additional exposure, but the latter is entirely within my view of important messages from government.

And also, perhaps, please try to avoid using energy between certain hours - when pressure on the grid is likely to be highest. I'm pretty flexible about when I do my washing and hoovering, but I have no idea when is the 'best' time.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hating the collective is not the same thing as hating individuals. I can't stand Americans, but have very good friends who are American.

Yet yesterday, in the housing thread, you criticised what appears to be completely analogous reasoning:

"I'm not racist, some of my friends are black."

 

[najaB]

Yet yesterday, in the housing thread, you criticised what appears to be completely analogous reasoning:

Racism ≠ intense dislike.

Also, you seem to have missed the work that 'not' is doing in the sentence you quoted from the previous thread. To make the direct comparison to the second statement it would be "I am racist, but I have black friends."

 

[jon0844]

But it does seem that if we're at the stage of the government having to tell people things like 'turn your heating down and you'll use less energy' then we've got very serious problems as a nation. I'd hope most people could work that out for themselves.

I think we've been seeing our nation getting dumbed down for well over a generation, so is it really that surprising?!

 

[Gloster]

The latest government wheeze, as reported in The Grauniad, is to further restrict the installation of solar panels on farm land. Now there may be genuine reasons for care as to how many and where panels are installed, but this seems to be a making things very restrictive. (Surely it has nothing to do with the donations from fossil fuel companies?)

Source: Today’s Grauniad, in the Climate Crisis: Solar Power section.

 

[jon0844]

Darren Grimes deleted a Tweet earlier that was attacking EVs and blaming them for electricity blackouts, as well as gloating over the fact that without electricity they won't be able to run. As if fuel pumps will work without power either.

It is no surprise that these people all want to appease the oil companies and do everything to cripple green energy - then say how green energy can't generate enough power...

 

[birchesgreen]

The latest government wheeze, as reported in The Grauniad, is to further restrict the installation of solar panels on farm land. Now there may be genuine reasons for care as to how many and where panels are installed, but this seems to be a making things very restrictive. (Surely it has nothing to do with the donations from fossil fuel companies?)

Source: Today’s Grauniad, in the Climate Crisis: Solar Power section.

Funny how they are only "libertarian" when its suits them.

 

[Noddy]

The latest government wheeze, as reported in The Grauniad, is to further restrict the installation of solar panels on farm land. Now there may be genuine reasons for care as to how many and where panels are installed, but this seems to be a making things very restrictive. (Surely it has nothing to do with the donations from fossil fuel companies?)

Source: Today’s Grauniad, in the Climate Crisis: Solar Power section.

Completely and utterly farcical that they would be even thinking of restricting one of the cheapest and easiest energy sources during an energy crisis. But then again this is the government which actively crashed the economy.

 

[Busaholic]

Funny how they are only "libertarian" when its suits them.

Suella Braverman is reportedly keen on making marijuana a Class A drug, against the trend across much of the world where possession of small amounts is being decriminalised. It's apparently because some of the Tory Police and Crime Commissioners have told her it's a major concern in their leafy domains. I'd sooner every MP was liable to a drug test every time they enter the Houses of Parliament, then perhaps the one who passes it could be made PM.

 

[Bald Rick]

I recall Private Eye 10-15 years ago had a regular column called something like 'Keeping The Lights On' where they pointed out continually that our energy policies were going to cause significant issues in the future.

‘Old Sparky’ has also been writing for years about how biomass power stations that take their feedstock from wood pellets are worse for carbon emissions than coal. Panorama caught up with that story only last week.

Are people really going to to change tack because of pestering government adverts on the radio/tv/newspapers etc.?

Yes. You’d be surprised how little some very educated people know about stuff they haven’t been educated about. I know plenty of senior, very clever, people who don’t have the faintest idea about things that, to me, are basic common sense. Some people (like me) are inquisitive / nosy and absorb info about everything and everything. Some people don’t. For example Mrs BR doesn’t have the faintest idea about how our heating works (other than the ‘battle of the thermostat’), nor that having the aircon on the car full blast to cool it down is rather ineffective with all the windows open.

Darren Grimes deleted a Tweet earlier that was attacking EVs and blaming them for electricity blackouts, as well as gloating over the fact that without electricity they won't be able to run.

Just done some quick maths. There’s now a million EVs or PHEVs on the road (about 60:40 in favour of the former). Assuming they all do average mileage, and that PHEVs spend 2/3 their time on electric, the average power consumption is is 200MW. That’s 0.6% of GB electricity demand, and also about half what the railway uses.

 

[takno]

Suella Braverman is reportedly keen on making marijuana a Class A drug, against the trend across much of the world where possession of small amounts is being decriminalised. It's apparently because some of the Tory Police and Crime Commissioners have told her it's a major concern in their leafy domains. I'd sooner every MP was liable to a drug test every time they enter the Houses of Parliament, then perhaps the one who passes it could be made PM.

Luckily even the PM appears to think that Braverman is a hapless idiot who needs to be ignored or contradicted at every possible opportunity

 

[nw1]

Funny how they are only "libertarian" when its suits them.

I wouldn't call the Tory governments in place since 2016 libertarian in the slightest. Patel and Braverman, in particular, seem to me to be particularly militant authoritarians - though I will accept Johnson is not, he just blows with the wind.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2022 ==

Luckily even the PM appears to think that Braverman is a hapless idiot who needs to be ignored or contradicted at every possible opportunity

Maybe Braverman should add Colorado to the axis of evil, and completely ban all immigration from that state to the UK in case they corrupt us.

(FWIW I don't like the idea of smoking marijuana personally, and have never tried it myself, but on libertarian grounds I don't agree with possession or partaking of it being a criminal offence).

 

[Pete_uk]

Politicians are here to serve us. We are not here to smile and nod when they wreck lives.

Was a truer word ever spoken?

 

[MikeWM]

Yes. You’d be surprised how little some very educated people know about stuff they haven’t been educated about. I know plenty of senior, very clever, people who don’t have the faintest idea about things that, to me, are basic common sense. Some people (like me) are inquisitive / nosy and absorb info about everything and everything. Some people don’t.

I will have to agree with that, I suppose. For example, I've lost count of the number of people - often, as you say, rather clever people - I've had to disavow of the belief that using a fan lowers the temperature of a room...

But I doubt any proposed government campaign would be sophisticated enough to actually try to explain things. They like going for highly simplistic messages, and I can't imagine it would have been any more complex than things like 'turn your heating down' and 'do your washing late at night' (which itself causes issues if you happen to have neighbours...)

 

[nw1]

Completely and utterly farcical that they would be even thinking of restricting one of the cheapest and easiest energy sources during an energy crisis. But then again this is the government which actively crashed the economy.

Given that this government seem to be quite happy to concrete over AONB land, I'm surprised they are getting worked up about using land for solar panels, which are a useful use of the land as a source of green energy, and, importantly, reduce dependency on fuel sourced from questionable regimes.

 

[Ediswan]

You’d be surprised how little some very educated people know about stuff they haven’t been educated about.

Sometimes even stuff you would expect them to know. I used to work with somebody (not daft) who was sufficiently into cars and motor sport that they volunteered as a race marshall. Somehow they had never picked up that power = torque x rpm.

 

[takno]

Given that this government seem to be quite happy to concrete over AONB land, I'm surprised they are getting worked up about using land for solar panels, which are a useful use of the land as a source of green energy, and, importantly, reduce dependency on fuel sourced from questionable regimes.

As far as I am reading it, the proposed changes to the rules essentially protect grade 3b land from lots of different types of development. I think it's actually possible that the change is actually a rearguard action against the reduction in planning regulations, but somebody has cottoned on very quickly to an important secondary implication.

Basically Liz Truss's government just can't catch a break. Which is good because they really don't deserve one.

 

[birchesgreen]

Given that this government seem to be quite happy to concrete over AONB land, I'm surprised they are getting worked up about using land for solar panels, which are a useful use of the land as a source of green energy, and, importantly, reduce dependency on fuel sourced from questionable regimes.

Because they have been bought and paid for by the fossil fuel lobby.

 

[brad465]

Given that this government seem to be quite happy to concrete over AONB land, I'm surprised they are getting worked up about using land for solar panels, which are a useful use of the land as a source of green energy, and, importantly, reduce dependency on fuel sourced from questionable regimes.

I'd be okay with the move if it was announced alongside a plan to get solar panels on all new builds and help fund retrospective addition to existing properties without them, but they haven't (quelle surprise) as their backers don't want it.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes. You’d be surprised how little some very educated people know about stuff they haven’t been educated about. I know plenty of senior, very clever, people who don’t have the faintest idea about things that, to me, are basic common sense. Some people (like me) are inquisitive / nosy and absorb info about everything and everything. Some people don’t. For example Mrs BR doesn’t have the faintest idea about how our heating works (other than the ‘battle of the thermostat’), nor that having the aircon on the car full blast to cool it down is rather ineffective with all the windows open.

That doesn't surprise me at all. The gaps in their education won't be their fault, for a start, except in the sense that some will have chosen the subjects they wished to study during their secondary education and if going on to further education. As for very clever people, I've known one or two and read a lot on many others, and almost all have areas of life they have never mastered, possibly owing to lack of interest but, just as likely, because they knew they weren't suited to it. Many clever people have never driven, for instance, and some will never have wanted to or tried, but there are others who never had the necessary co-ordination to pass a driving test. Yes, there are polymaths, but they're very few and far between. At school I wrote English or history essays for people in return for them doing my physics or geometry homework, two things I could never begin to understand, so I'm with your wife!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

so I'm with your wife!

So you're actually a lot more sprightly than you make out then...

 

[Bald Rick]

so I'm with your wife!

I only left home 10 minutes ago, you’re a quick mover!