Tweet from Sky News - "It has been rumoured former transport secretary Grant Shapps, who backed Rishi Sunak for the Tory leadership, is offering to volunteer as a caretaker prime minister"
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Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.
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Tweet from Sky News - "It has been rumoured former transport secretary Grant Shapps, who backed Rishi Sunak for the Tory leadership, is offering to volunteer as a caretaker prime minister"
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DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Her exact words, which as far as I'm aware she has not expressed any regret for, were 'I detest the Tories and everything they stand for'. I can't see how you can interpret that to mean anything other than a declaration of hatred for both Tory values AND people who are Tories/in the Conservative party.
Imagine it was the reverse: How would you feel if a senior Tory politician said 'I detest the Nationalists and everything they stand for'? Personally, I'd be horrified if anyone said that - just as I'm horrified by Nicola Sturgeon's remarks - because to my mind, seeking to spread hatred is wrong, no matter which side of the political divide you are on.
Busaholic
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Given that Zahawi was mentored by Lord Archer from his post-education days, you could say that his political education was under a convicted perjurer and liar. I find him the most weaselly of politicians, unable or unwilling to give a straight answer to a straight question, and never, ever concedes that any criticism of a Conservative individual, policy or idea is justified, even if the party does a u-turn five minutes later. I'm not surprised that even Tory MPs could see that choosing him as leader would be beyond the pale. Then along came Truss!!Who would is flawed. have known a Gov't Minister had so many talents, this one now being a long range weather forecaster, and, better still, Winter is going to be warm and sunny along with now only being Winter for a few days over Christmas !
Nadhim Zahawi claims UK winter blackouts are ‘extremely unlikely’
Cabinet minister says it is ‘only right we plan for every scenario’ after National Grid warningwww.theguardian.com
birchesgreen
Established Member
See it can always get WORSE
She's allowed to detest tories and their values. Most people I know absolutely despise everything the tory party stand for and have absolutely no love for any of their elected representatives either. You're allowed to hate those who cause you harm. The tories actively harm people with thier policies and have deliberately caused division and hatred in the UK over the last decade. There is nothing wrong with detesting those who have led the UK down this path.
Let's not forget Truss has chosen to publicly call Sturgeon an attention seeker and said she would ignore her.
Hating the collective is not the same thing as hating individuals. I can't stand Americans, but have very good friends who are American.
birchesgreen
Established Member
It doesn't matter what Sturgeon has said (and vice versa), if Truss hasn't met with her then she is disrespecting the office.
Bletchleyite
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Wilts Wanderer
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An alternative is to get a cat, they do the same thing.
And they're a lot more entertaining.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
No. It's perfectly fine to disagree with what the Tories (or any other party) does. Even to strongly disagree, or to be shocked by stuff that they are doing. But hatred is different. Hatred is what ultimately leads to discrimination, prejudice, and persecution. Frankly, if you saying that you hate Tories per se, then you're making yourself no better than someone who hates - say - black people, or foreigners. It's an intolerant attitude that should have no place in a democracy. And remember, Nicola Sturgeon is not just some random individual - she's the leader of a major political party and is the Scottish First Minister - and she has clearly chosen to use her position to spread hatred towards her opponents. To my mind that is utterly appalling.
I don't agree with that remark either. It's not quite in the same category, but I wouldn't support it. But it does not justify Nicola Sturgeon seeking to abuse her position to spread outright hatred.
43096
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And, let's be honest, if the boot was on the other foot and Truss had said the same about the SNP, Sturgeon would be apoplectic and be somewhere out in low earth orbit as a result.
Saying you hate a political party is not the same as saying you hate foreigners or those of a different race. I'm surprised you even typed that with a straight face. You know its not the same at all. You do not choose your race. You do not choose where you are from. People, however, can freely choose to follow polticial parties for whatever reason and those parties choose to implement policies and are held to account for the policies they deliberately choose to impose. If that leads peoole to hate them then so be it. Maybe they should change course to become more likable. Politicians are here to serve us. We are not here to smile and nod when they wreck lives.
I do hate the tories and have absolutely no qualms saying that in public. In fact I see it as a badge of honour as they are totally reprehensible and CHOOSE to do what they do despite the criticism and opposition from various sections of society, often even within their own ranks! They are a polticial party riddled with ideology that is at odds with my values. I am not required to treat a political ideology as I would a person.
Sturgeon is free to speak her mind in this country and God knows she has had some vile things said about her and the press don't bat an eyelid. She seems to be getting a lot of praise tonight on social networks anyway, most of what I've seen is heavily in agreement and applauding her words. Why should she pretend to like the party whose leader won't even pick up the phone to her?
I do hate the tories and have absolutely no qualms saying that in public. In fact I see it as a badge of honour as they are totally reprehensible and CHOOSE to do what they do despite the criticism and opposition from various sections of society, often even within their own ranks! They are a polticial party riddled with ideology that is at odds with my values. I am not required to treat a political ideology as I would a person.
Sturgeon is free to speak her mind in this country and God knows she has had some vile things said about her and the press don't bat an eyelid. She seems to be getting a lot of praise tonight on social networks anyway, most of what I've seen is heavily in agreement and applauding her words. Why should she pretend to like the party whose leader won't even pick up the phone to her?
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Busaholic
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I think detest indicates a very strong dislike, whereas hate is a far more emotional word and likely to be used on a personal or individual basis, even though it means much the same. I particularly think that Sturgeon detesting 'the Tories' rather than 'Tories' makes an enormous difference. The problem is that we don't have an equivalent word for Labour MPs or members; however, I've heard many Tories over the years saying they detest both 'the Socialists' and 'Socialists', as well as 'the Labour party.' It's all deckchairs on the SS Trusstanic, of course, as it ploughs on remorselessly towards the iceberg, visible to all except Kami-Kwarteng on the bridge and Captain Truss busy plumping the cushions below and playing games with all around her. As they're mind games, she hasn't managed to win one yet, and refuses to come up on deck until that happens. In the meantime, the orders to the bridge are ' go straight on, and make sure if you deviate it's only to the right'.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Firstly Shapps was not the best Transport minister and he was depsicable in the way he turned on railway people but he was a Sunak supporter so we wouldn't have had the financial crash TrussKwarteng have engendered. The simple fact is mortgage rates being elevated to the levels they are will cripple people far more than energy bills and lead us into a recession potentially a banking crisis and a depression. Truss has bought us to this place.
Saying you "detest the Tories" does seem to me to be aimed at the parliamentary party rather than the membership and I think saying she is "spreading hatred" is a bit wide of the mark. However it's uncivil and not exactly in the spirit of "civic nationalism" the SNP once promised but seems to have left by the wayside some time ago. The Tories are basically the de facto unionist party up in Scotland.
You wouldn't even catch a Sinn Fein first minister saying they "detest the DUP" on record (!), so there's some food for thought about how low public standards have sunk in Scottish political life. Overall, bad show all round, including the pearl-clutching from Tories.
You wouldn't even catch a Sinn Fein first minister saying they "detest the DUP" on record (!), so there's some food for thought about how low public standards have sunk in Scottish political life. Overall, bad show all round, including the pearl-clutching from Tories.
DelayRepay
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I realise you were replying to a post about keeping warm, but I thought you were replying to @Urobach's post above! I know we don't get to pick the caretaker prime minister, but if we did I would vote for a cat over Grant Shapps any day.
Lost property
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There was a brief clip on C4 News when Truss, the current temporary tenant, met the Danish PM outside No10 and bent down to stroke a certain well known cat, albeit a long term resident. At which point, the cat, being far from daft, promptly legged it sharpish. You have to feel sorry for the cat...after Boris and Carrie, it was probably hoping for an improvement on the hooman residents it allows to share its domain...sadly, Truss appeared
Falcon1200
Established Member
I could not agree more. Personally I disagree fundamentally with Ms Sturgeon's politics and world view, but I do not detest her, or wish her any harm, no more than I detest any other political figure with whom I have differences (and there are plenty of them, as since I was first able to vote in 1979 I have favoured at various times Labour, Tory and Lib Dem candidates).
How Ms Sturgeon expects her behaviour to generate a cordial relationship with Ms Truss is a mystery, although of course in reality the last thing Sturgeon wants or needs is to be seen getting on and co-operating with the evil Westminster Tories, the Nationalist hate mob will not accept that.
Wilts Wanderer
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I don't really get your comparison. Being black or being from another country are individual characteristics. Disliking them solely based on that is based on irrational prejudice.
"Hating" Tories is hating principles that they stand for, which is something quite different. Tories choose their policies and their implementation and if they are disadvantageous to certain people will continue with it anyway as they feel it's the best thing to do, much the same as traditional Labour policies might disadvantage the well-off. If you're on the receiving end of that then go ahead and hate them *shrug*.
If I lose my job and then my home over Tory policy, then I can pretty much guarantee I won't just be sucking it up and saying "oh well, never mind, it's just life"
And, to split a hair, Ms. Sturgeon said she detests Tories, not that she hates them.
We can't afford to mess around with rank amateurs any longer, we need someone who has a thorough knowledge of Downing Street and how it works. Larry, this is your time to heed the nation's call and follow in the steps of Churchill, Gladstone, Peel, and Pitt.
nlogax
Established Member
I'm ready to vote for him.
I'd of course agree we want to avoid blackouts, but I'm not at all sure what they can tell us that we don't know already.
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I agree with the first sentence, but I also understand why. I make a lot of noise about things I think the government *shouldn't* be doing, but ensuring there is affordable and sufficient energy for the population is one thing the government very much ought to be doing. It is really quite a failure if they don't deliver that, albeit one we can't really blame Truss for at this point. I recall Private Eye 10-15 years ago had a regular column called something like 'Keeping The Lights On' where they pointed out continually that our energy policies were going to cause significant issues in the future.
I'm not at all sure I agree with the rest though. We all know there are issues with energy this winter. Are people really going to to change tack because of pestering government adverts on the radio/tv/newspapers etc.?
For what it is worth, I think most people have their homes *far* too warm in winter. Mine will be at 16-17 degrees downstairs and around 15 upstairs, as it is every year - I've been doing my bit at saving energy for many years now
But people should be able to be comfortable in their own home, and who am I to tell them their home is too hot?--
Not sure what qualifies as 'paranoid' in anything I said there. (I appreciate some of my comments *in other threads* could be considered somewhat 'paranoid', though of course I'd debate that
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I disagree with campaigns that tell people things they know already, they are hectoring and treat the population like fools. Of course there is a place for government campaigns when there is new information, or new legislation we need to know about, or information changes (eg. we told you smoking/asbestos/DDT/thalidomide/vioxx were perfectly safe, well, err, actually they're not remotely safe, oops).
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I don't think the vast majority of people are sufficiently thick that they need the government to tell them how to reduce energy consumption.
Possibly I'm wrong, and I'm choosing to believe that because the alternative is even more concerning in my opinion - that the vast majority of people are just awaiting government instructions in how to live their lives down to the smallest detail.
Don't make the mistake of assuming that other people know what you know.
Yesterday I surprised a vegetarian by telling them that gelatine (used to make the Haribo he was eating) was made from meat.
But it does seem that if we're at the stage of the government having to tell people things like 'turn your heating down and you'll use less energy' then we've got very serious problems as a nation. I'd hope most people could work that out for themselves.
It doesn’t need to be a vast majority. We have (or had, I don’t know the state of broadcast ads) government adverts about speeding or smoking or when to file taxes. I think there’s enough of a minority who needs to hear it, regardless of why they need to.
brad465
Veteran Member
That says more about the education system than the individuals who need telling. People are not born with programmed instructions on every last detail of how to function in our society, most of it has to be taught.
But it does seem that if we're at the stage of the government having to tell people things like 'turn your heating down and you'll use less energy' then we've got very serious problems as a nation. I'd hope most people could work that out for themselves.
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