Another media allegation against Southeastern Railways

[FrozenPoints]

Obviously with the punctuality figures coming in at 82.04% - 0.04% above the 81.9% or lower rate for compensation for season ticket holders...

BBC South East Today says the figures were only propped up to reach 82.04% because of the inclusion of High Speed One figures.

Now we are smart enough to understand the real context but:

7 million HS1 journeys
150 million SET network (minus HS1)

HS1 hit 90% punctuality consistently, obviously the rest of the network flagged well below 82%.

Does BBC SET have a point - or do we go back to the overall mark that it is an INTERGRATED network.

(This is not like the threat of putting a SET train through a washer - and a lady with a lack of intelligence lambasting the south east operator).

 

[mrcheek]

Typical media attempts to slag off a train company at any expense.

You could do the same with any company in this situation - take out the best figures, leave the worst. Fact is, SouthEastern just managed to avoid the level of punctuality that would have resulted in compensation. Well done to them.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

HS1 is an SET service, therefore it should be included in SET punctuality figures.

 

[Mojo]

Southeastern have handled the disruption recently very poorly and it is right that the passengers and their political representatives are up in arms over the situation. The trains did not run for a number of days and people are getting no compensation whatsoever from Southeastern. Information over this period was poor and Southeastern were rightly criticised for poor use of new media to communicate with and keep their customers in the loop.

Southeastern has just two passenger charter groups; Metro and Mainline & Highspeed, which given the size of their network is a bit of a swiz. Compare this to First Great Western who have High Speed, Thames Valley, Bristol Suburban, Devon, Plymouth & Cornwall and Cardiff - Portsmouth; and South West Trains who have 4 mainline groups, 3 suburban groups and Island Line.

 

[Failed Unit]

Typical media attempts to slag off a train company at any expense.

You could do the same with any company in this situation - take out the best figures, leave the worst. Fact is, SouthEastern just managed to avoid the level of punctuality that would have resulted in compensation. Well done to them.

It was in private eye as well, I suspect that is where the BBC refreshed the story from, but we have discussed it on here as well. I suspect a but of fiddling has taken place maybe a cancelled train or 2 to keep it at 0.04 above it probably only took one extra cancellation of a late train. Cynic

 

[mrcheek]

It was in private eye as well, I suspect that is where the BBC refreshed the story from, but we have discussed it on here as well. I suspect a but of fiddling has taken place maybe a cancelled train or 2 to keep it at 0.04 above it probably only took one extra cancellation of a late train. Cynic

Dr B Ching in Private Eye would rather the entire network was still nationalised, and a single network.
Therefore, in his world, south eastern commuters wouldnt get compensation because northern trains ran to time......

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe, but I don't trust TOCs in these situations. But we already have enough legal loopholes. Scotrail for example have 10 minutes grace on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route, not bad for a 50 minute 47 mile journey. Longer distance such as fife circle only get 5. They then exempt the route when the line is flooded etc and reduced to every 30 minutes. So I am certain south eastern massaged the figures a little to make sure they complied. So many legal things they could do, mainline service running late? Don't bother stopping it! Other TOCs do that so I bet southeastern have as well.

 

[mumrar]

Obviously with the punctuality figures coming in at 82.04% - 0.04% above the 81.9% or lower rate for compensation for season ticket holders...

If your figures are correct for the trigger point being 81.9%, then SET exceeded this my 0.14%, not 0.04% by recording 82.04%.

7 million HS1 journeys
150 million SET network (minus HS1)

HS1 hit 90% punctuality consistently, obviously the rest of the network flagged well below 82%.

Again, assuming the journey numbers are correct, HS1 represent 4.6% of the total number of SET journeys. This would require HS1 to be 3% better than the rest of SET to exert the statistical change of 0.14% overall.

What I find odd is that suddenly SET's figures are false/unbelieveable/untrustworthy etc just because the figures came out close to the target. If that's the case, and SET really DID want to cook the books, wouldn't they have gone for something like 85% or more? It wouldn't make sense to lie to the tune of 0.14 or 0.04% as is being alleged, if the figures were indeed false.

Its another case of the sense of entitlement to anything exhibited by the UK's general populous.

 

[tbtc]

7 million HS1 journeys

HS1 hit 90% punctuality consistently

That sounds like decent figures for HS1, especially given the weather which affected the other lines too. However, I don't expect that to make the headlines...

 

[Failed Unit]

That sounds like decent figures for HS1, especially given the weather which affected the other lines too. However, I don't expect that to make the headlines...

It is very good considering the still go on the classic lines and can get caught up in any issue on them.

 

[Class 466]

Southeastern do not deserve a two year extension on their franchise and realise that highspeed is a service at a premium price so it shouldnt count in their figures and instead put it seperately, who should take over next??? First kent integrated railways????

 

[mrcheek]

I read the piece in Private Eye today.
They said it was unfair that HS1 services were counted in the stats, because HS1 doesnt have to cope with the scrambled tracks at London Bridge, and doesnt have so many problems with snow because the main HS1 line doesnt use third rail.
So basically, Private Eye admits thats the delays to other SE services are not SE's fault anyway.

Private Eye is often funny and clever, but when it comes to railways, they really are stupid.

 

[Failed Unit]

I read the piece in Private Eye today.
They said it was unfair that HS1 services were counted in the stats, because HS1 doesnt have to cope with the scrambled tracks at London Bridge, and doesnt have so many problems with snow because the main HS1 line doesnt use third rail.
So basically, Private Eye admits thats the delays to other SE services are not SE's fault anyway.

Private Eye is often funny and clever, but when it comes to railways, they really are stupid.

I don't agree with people saying the groups should be "mainline", "Metro" and "High Speed", but they should maybe split the local areas say "North Kent", "South Kent" (and other areas of course). That way if the Faversham route has a shocking time they will get something back and they won't have the Ashford route pulling up the average. However if they did that all services should be included as you have the choice from Faversham to use both HS1 and Classic.

Works OK for Scotrail with "East", "Central", "Highland" etc so if the Central areas has major problems the highland areas can't pull it out of the compenation area.

But most franchises have the payout trigger set well below the charter target!

 

[Anonywave]

highspeed is a service at a premium price so it shouldnt count in their figures and instead put it seperately,

Why on earth should higher cost services not count in the main figures?
It is a part of the SET network and, as others have pointed out, there are numerous physical problems affecting the classic network that are no fault of Southeastern

 

[Class 466]

as a daily commuter, their is no way of fixing this but whoever the next operator is needs to be honest and stop lying to people and making excuses. For example the other day because of a train fault at hatings th 1602 maidstone west to strood was cancelled how does that work??? Southeastern are rubbish and dont know how to clean the inside of a train properly!!!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

as a daily commuter, their is no way of fixing this but whoever the next operator is needs to be honest and stop lying to people and making excuses. For example the other day because of a train fault at hatings th 1602 maidstone west to strood was cancelled how does that work??? Southeastern are rubbish and dont know how to clean the inside of a train properly!!!

Let's let you run a TOC then, and see how well you do!

 

[Class 466]

grrrr
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
how about you???!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

grrrr
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
how about you???!

I don't complain about my local TOC or try and tell them what to do. I accept that professionals run it, and they know what to do far more than I do.

 

[Clip]

as a daily commuter, their is no way of fixing this but whoever the next operator is needs to be honest and stop lying to people and making excuses. For example the other day because of a train fault at hatings th 1602 maidstone west to strood was cancelled how does that work??? Southeastern are rubbish and dont know how to clean the inside of a train properly!!!

Could be anything from train stock movements either then/later on in the day. Connections for later trains being missed..And dont forget that the one from Strood that that one would have formed would also have been cancelled.

Lots of reasons why..

 

[chuffchuff]

For example the other day because of a train fault at hatings th 1602 maidstone west to strood was cancelled how does that work??? Southeastern are rubbish and dont know how to clean the inside of a train properly!!!

That will be the Driver or Guard stuck at Hastings most likely

 

[Class 466]

I don't complain about my local TOC or try and tell them what to do. I accept that professionals run it, and they know what to do far more than I do.

What is your local TOC?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What is your local TOC?

Why do you want to know?

 

[Class 466]

Why do you want to know?

I was just interested...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I was just interested...

I'm sure someone as bright as you would be able to guess! The clues are there.

 

[notadriver]

I read the piece in Private Eye today.
They said it was unfair that HS1 services were counted in the stats, because HS1 doesnt have to cope with the scrambled tracks at London Bridge, and doesnt have so many problems with snow because the main HS1 line doesnt use third rail.
So basically, Private Eye admits thats the delays to other SE services are not SE's fault anyway.

Private Eye is often funny and clever, but when it comes to railways, they really are stupid.

Also the editor lives somewhere along the main line between Tonbridge and Ashford and by all accounts seemed quite happy with the service - at least when i saw him!

 

[mailman]

So let me see if Ive got this right...you guys are ok with nearly 20% of trains being late or cancelled?

I mean lets keep this in perspective...if you are paying thousands of pounds a year for the priviledge of getting to work do you really think that having nearly 20% of all trains late is giving your customers value for money?

Regards

Mailman

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So let me see if Ive got this right...you guys are ok with nearly 20% of trains being late or cancelled?

I mean lets keep this in perspective...if you are paying thousands of pounds a year for the priviledge of getting to work do you really think that having nearly 20% of all trains late is giving your customers value for money?

Regards

Mailman

Think of how many trains SET run, and then work out 20%. It'll be quite a small number. Then factor in the inflation caused by events out of SETs control, and the number will reduce again.

 

[mailman]

Doesnt that make it even worse Ralph? If its a small operation then surely it should be easier for them to run on time?

Mind you, somehow I doubt the paying customer is really going to feel any comfort the next time their train is delayed because of a wet seat or the sun being at the wrong angle makes their train in to work late.

Regards

Mailman

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Its not particulary small, and it's not particulary large.

The figures can be misleading. I commute on the Alton branch. For all I care, they could cancel all of the Exeter services - but it wouldn't affect me

 

[MikeWh]

I fail to see how you can call 20% not very many. It is 1 in 5. That is bad however few or many trains they run.