Trivia: The worst/most confusing stations to change trains at

[Basil Jet]

Euston to Euston Square would be another one. Not only is it quite badly signposted, but I can never find the entrance to Euston Square!

Oh come on. Euston Station is in Euston Square, and Euston Square Station isn't. How could anyone find that confusing.

 

[xotGD]

A special shout out to Retford.

I once had to make a tight connection, arriving from the north and heading to Worksop. I baled off and started legging it to the "downstairs" platforms, only to discover that the Worksop train was departing from the northbound high-level platform.

I made it - just!

 

[londonmidland]

Another vote for Birmingham New Street. Once you’ve finally found your platform, train information is really poor.

Tiny passenger information screens with the announcements being silenced for a number of years now. This is because, and I quote from the ‘man in charge’ of customer experience - ‘To keep noise levels down and because most people already know where the train is going..’

 

[urbophile]

I understand where you're coming from, and I totally agree with the problem of the stairs at Euston, but otherwise I find it trivial, easy and even enjoyable to change between Euston and Saint Pancras. I guess I compare it to when I had to change to Waterloo instead, which is a real pain with luggage on the underground. Travelator is complete overkill and, given the usual experience of their installations in the UK, wouldn't work most of the time which is even more annoying. Better signage so that more people can use the better route we've both found would be good, but there's something nice about knowing about a "secret" route also, well semi-secret anyway.

Well yes.I agree really but just wanted to let off steam after a gruelling struggle against the clock with heavy luggage yesterday! The two priorities would be level access to Eversholt Street and better signposting (especially making clear that what looks like a private estate is in fact a right of way - or at least I hope so.)

Liverpool South Parkway interchange is maybe not confusing but certainly not easy, between the Merseyrail platforms and the main line. The distance can't be helped, but the fact that it is basically two stations separated by two sets of barriers is a complication. And while there are two spacious lifts up to the overbridge linking platforms 1-4, most people seem to use the stairs and half way up realise how many there are. An escalator would be nice.

 

[Purple Train]

most people already know where the train is going..’

Some of the speakers at the Tory conference would be proud of that statement. That's completely ludicrous.

 

[urbophile]

Oh come on. Euston Station is in Euston Square, and Euston Square Station isn't. How could anyone find that confusing.

I can't understand why Euston Square LU station is so far from the mainline. Euston itself predates the Metropolitan, which I understood was built largely to connect the mainline termini along Euston Road, and runs beneath it. A station immediately in front of Euston's concourse/ great arch would have been a no-brainer, one would think.

 

[Siemens Trains]

A lot of people seem to have difficulty with Edinburgh Waverley. Can't say I've ever had a problem but it's one of my locals so I'm probably used to it. Admittedly the extra long platforms are given two significantly different numbers, while the numbering & lettering convention around platforms 8, 9 and 10 seems to go slightly adrift. But the signs always seemed reasonably good to me.
However at Preston (Lancs) I did have an issue finding platform 4c during a tight-ish connection when going to Colne. It's separate to platform 4, following the same convention as platforms 3 and 3c. Meanwhile the lettered platforms 1 and 2 seem to use their letters as continuations, so 1a is on the same stretch as 1b. Didn't help that Colne is located north of Preston, so I naively thought platform 4c might be found towards the north end of platform 4. Any sign for platform 4c just pointed towards platform 4. Something of a mystery to me why different numbers aren't used for platforms 3c and 4c. Or the relevance of the letter c - it isn't even a compass point. But I'll know next time....

 

[Bletchleyite]

4C at Preston wasn't used for years, so the signage is rather lacking.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I can't understand why Euston Square LU station is so far from the mainline. Euston itself predates the Metropolitan, which I understood was built largely to connect the mainline termini along Euston Road, and runs beneath it. A station immediately in front of Euston's concourse/ great arch would have been a no-brainer, one would think.

The 'arch' and rest of the original Euston were rather further back from Euston Road. Even now the concourse is hardly next to Euston Road.

I thought that Euston Square Underground Station (which isn't actually in Euston Square) was originally called Gower Street (which it is next to).

 

[gc4946]

Birmingham New Street stands out, I had to provide detailed instructions to a former schoolmate where to meet after exiting the barriers because he rarely travelled by train.
Leeds is easier because there's two sets of ticket barriers and the vast majority use the north side ones.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Trying to exit is odd depending which way you go, through about 500 sets of barriers if you get it wrong like me!

This comment really intrigued me.

Assuming that you have arrived by train it is only ever necessary to pass through one barrier to be in a position to then leave the 'concourse' by one of the numerous exits - Stephenson Street/Tram stop, Hill Street/Station Street, car park/pick-up, taxi rank, Thousand Trades Square (aka 'the Bull Ring side') or up to Grand Central.

Did you go on a 'woozle hunt' circuit via both ends of the Blue Zone and Green Zone 125 times before the penny dropped that it was looking a bit familiar?

 

[londonmidland]

Some of the speakers at the Tory conference would be proud of that statement. That's completely ludicrous.

I’m pretty sure it discriminates for persons of visual difficulties but I think that is for a different thread.

 

[urbophile]

The 'arch' and rest of the original Euston were rather further back from Euston Road. Even now the concourse is hardly next to Euston Road.

I thought that Euston Square Underground Station (which isn't actually in Euston Square) was originally called Gower Street (which it is next to).

True. But immediately in front would be nearer than its present position. Maybe there was some sort of dispute between the LNWR (or whatever its predecessor of the time was called) and the Metropolitan. Odd that they didn't give Euston recognition even in the name.

 

[Route115?]

There is not much discussion about long treks at LUL stations. Green Park & Bank come to mind but there are plenty of other instances. (The problem of course is that various companies built the diffeent lines and everything was linked up later.)

Whilst the new London Bridge station is fine I would have liked to see a mezzanine directly below the platforms - it seems a long way to go down & up when transferring between services. Just compare the number of escalators per platform with somewhere like Chatalet in Paris which is what it should have been modelled on.

I know that there wasn't space for a third escalator, but I'm dreading what will happen at Southwark / Waterloo East when the interchange escalators become due for renewal.

 

[Richard Scott]

I can't think of many reasons why one would need to make that interchange TBH unless you were staying at Gateway Gardens perhaps? If you were travelling from say Mainz to Cologne it would be almost as quick to get a direct train rather than backtracking and in most other scenarios you might as well just go via Frankfurt Hbf.

When the S-Bahn runs late and you miss your train at Hbf (which was originally a 20 minute connection) there are then no trains from Hbf towards Duesseldorf but there is one stopping at the airport as happened to me recently so back on S-Bahn to airport to change. DB is just a total mess!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2022 ==

To support the reply by @duncanp .

No interchange requires passing through two sets of barriers. The 'B end'/aka Red Zone/Lounge can meet all needs.

Ever since New Street opened (on a smaller scale) in the 1850s there has been one bridge to meet all interchange needs. This principle has survived through all subsequent enlargements and re-buildings. The B end/Red Zone has inherited that mantle of the one bridge.

Unlike (say) Edinburgh Waverley or Cardiff Central (Platform 0) no platforms have (only) 'separate barriers'.

Even if you do end up emerging at the 'wrong end' there is no real problem in passing through two sets of barriers. The staff are not going to prosecute you and the barriers are not programmed to eat your half-used ticket. The published interchange time allows for normal use of either end.

But that works if you know that, which average punter probably does not. I use New Street very infrequently and can never remember which exit allows me to access the bridge going to all platforms.
The published interchange times are fine when your train is on time, when you get off a crowded late running train, have to get up the steps to find yourself in a lounge and need to go through the barriers is just another frustration. It's a ridiculous set up and can't believe any sane person would come up with it.

 

[L401CJF]

This comment really intrigued me.

Assuming that you have arrived by train it is only ever necessary to pass through one barrier to be in a position to then leave the 'concourse' by one of the numerous exits - Stephenson Street/Tram stop, Hill Street/Station Street, car park/pick-up, taxi rank, Thousand Trades Square (aka 'the Bull Ring side') or up to Grand Central.

Did you go on a 'woozle hunt' circuit via both ends of the Blue Zone and Green Zone 125 times before the penny dropped that it was looking a bit familiar?

Honestly, I don't even know! If I'm down there again at some point I'll try and figure out where I went and report back.

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

It was weirder back in the day when it didn't have platforms on the busiest arm of the triangle. I can see it being a bit awkward for journeys towards Leeds or Skipton as the two platforms those services might use are a long way apart from each other. For Bradford it's a bit easier. That being said, there isn't really any way of improving that situation without causing bigger problems or making it necessary for some services to omit Shipley altogether.

Shipley gets the prize for the most confusing small station.
Most people & myself do not expect to find a triangle of platforms in a small towns. First time I had to walk around a bit when changing.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Shipley gets the prize for the most confusing small station.
Most people & myself do not expect to find a triangle of platforms in a small towns. First time I had to walk around a bit when changing.

It's only really confusing if you're unfamiliar. It's annoying if you park in the car park intending to travel to Leeds, so you look at the screens near the booking hall. If the next Leeds train is coming from Skipton or beyond you then have a fair walk and a bridge to traverse.

 

[GoneSouth]

(It’s changed a bit since then. Much easier to enter or leave the station from a range of directions.)

Very true, but harder to change trains… unless you enjoy battling your way a couple of hundred metres down packed platforms to the ‘B’ end (at which point it does become easy) or navigating multiple barrier queues when you’re in a hurry to catch the much reduced frequency XC trains! Thank god it’s all worth it now John Lewis is open…

Oh !!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2022 ==

Something I had never considered, having used the station 100s of times, but recently had someone ask me where platform 9 (I think it was 9) was when standing on the said platform -why? Well IIRC all the signs in sight said 9A or 9B or 9C or 9D and not 9 without any suffix ! So they thought p9 was somewhere else.

I find the signage at Leeds terrible and on top of that having A to D can be confusing if you are new to it.

 

[Techniquest]

When did John Lewis close in Grand Central? I must confess to not really noticing when I was there last time.

Also, is Leeds the only station in the UK with 'D' platforms? I cannot think of any others right now

 

[GoneSouth]

When did John Lewis close in Grand Central? I must confess to not really noticing when I was there last time.

Also, is Leeds the only station in the UK with 'D' platforms? I cannot think of any others right now

I don’t think JL reopened after the first lockdown, they closed several stores at the same time.

Now I’ve learned the ‘B’ end trick, I never need to exit the barrier at NS so don’t know if anything has replaced JL yet. Is there still a very big empty hole in Grand Central?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

When did John Lewis close in Grand Central? I must confess to not really noticing when I was there last time.

Closed their Birmingham store in the middle of 2020. Was open for less than five years.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

When did John Lewis close in Grand Central? I must confess to not really noticing when I was there last time.

Also, is Leeds the only station in the UK with 'D' platforms? I cannot think of any others right now

I think Leeds is the only one with "D" divisions. Even Colchester which I think has the longest platform on the network, has no need to split into four subdivisions.

It always struck me as odd that when GNER was using the 373 sets, they tended to use platform 1 or 6 (which they were a fair bit too long for) rather than platform 8 which is the longest in the station and wasn't far off being able to have all doors platformed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t think JL reopened after the first lockdown, they closed several stores at the same time.

Now I’ve learned the ‘B’ end trick, I never need to exit the barrier at NS so don’t know if anything has replaced JL yet. Is there still a very big empty hole in Grand Central?

I can't even remember where it was, but the place doesn't feel empty. I quite like it.

I don't think there would be much of an issue if the signage was improved to direct people to the B end for connections. Perhaps a continuous band along the walls in black and yellow with CONNECTIONS >>> ALL PLATFORMS >>> CONNECTIONS running up to the B end, and "Station exit only" at the A end? Sure, regulars will know which connections can usefully be made at the A ends, but they don't need any signage. Keep it simple.

 

[Techniquest]

Closed their Birmingham store in the middle of 2020. Was open for less than five years.

Thanks I've never been in a John Lewis store, perhaps many other people are the same. I vaguely remember it's a decent size shop, more or less perfect for Decathlon to go and fill. I would be a regular visitor if it was there!

I think Leeds is the only one with "D" divisions. Even Colchester which I think has the longest platform on the network, has no need to split into four subdivisions.

It always struck me as odd that when GNER was using the 373 sets, they tended to use platform 1 or 6 (which they were a fair bit too long for) rather than platform 8 which is the longest in the station and wasn't far off being able to have all doors platformed.

Thanks, I'm sure it is the only one, certainly there are times when Manchester Piccadilly could do with using the letters!

I never got to do a 373 on the ECML, except for a Leeds to Wakefield leap many years ago, when I was still a naive and novice spotter. At least I had the sense to go out of my way to do the 373 I suppose!

 

[Purple Train]

I think Leeds is the only one with "D" divisions. Even Colchester which I think has the longest platform on the network, has no need to split into four subdivisions.

Colchester's "longest platform" is two platforms of roughly 12-coach length laid end-to-end (on completely separate lines - a little like platforms 2 and 3 at Woking, except they're linked via a crossover) so the sub-divisions issue doesn't really arise.
The longest physical platform is Gloucester, which splits into two sub-divisions - though its purpose was to handle two HSTs at the same time. Given the trains generally operate in shorter formations at Leeds, a split into more sub-divisions, though the physical length of the platform may be shorter, would probably make more sense than just splitting it into two or three.
All of Nottingham's platforms were/are split into sub-divisions (except for the bay platform 2) despite their relative lack of length (12-or-so coaches on most of the platforms, which were split into three sub-divisions, though the four-coach-length platform 4 was split into two sub-divisions to facilitate the simultaneous arrival of a train from Lincoln to Leicester and departure of a train to Leeds. Platform 5 (which had a Colchester-like arrangement with the "new" platform 4 so was short in comparison to platforms 1, 3, 6, and 7) may not have been split into sub-divisions (given it could only handle one train at a time, though it served both St Pancras and Cardiff services), but I seem to remember it was - though it is many years since I've lived in the Nottingham area and even more years since I've visited Nottingham station). Short the platforms may have been, though sub-divisions were necessary given most trains had either two or three coaches (and obviously the longer services would be announced as departing from platform 6 rather than 6b, etc.). Admittedly few trains used sub-division "c", possibly because the only permissive arrangements that usually occurred on full-length platforms involved trains arriving into the west "a" end, and possibly because the "c" ends were more exposed to the elements - though it was very useful to know precisely where on the platform the train would stop (something BHM could learn a bit from!) when I had heavy luggage!

Anyway, getting back on topic, Doncaster's quite difficult to change at for me - and platform 0 only makes things worse. And, twisting it slightly but staying with Nottingham, the interchange at Highbury Vale between the Hucknall and Phoenix Park branches is horrible - no wonder they advise changing at David Lane. To be honest, the Phoenix Park platform should probably be taken out of use - it's not as if having to change at David Lane will cause more inconvenience than working out how to find the branch platform at Highbury Vale!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Oh come on. Euston Station is in Euston Square, and Euston Square Station isn't. How could anyone find that confusing.

Like Bayswater station is on Queensway, and Queensway station is on Bayswater Road* - completely logical... (*OK - it is on the corner of Queensway!)

Also on the Underground, although I know all its nooks and crannies myself, and have no trouble, I still have fun watching visitors trying to find their way between lines at Embankment.

Re NR stations, I still find the new London Bridge impossible to get my head round on the odd occasions I use it.

 

[xotGD]

Regarding Birmingham New St, and we have discussed how bad it is at length on a previous thread, the other option for getting between platforms is the footbridge at the extreme "Wolverhampton" end of the station. Never crowded, and offers access to all platforms except 1. Also the best way to exit the station if heading towards The Mailbox or similar.

 

[stuu]

5. It's basically impossible to research your interchanges in advance, because while NR provide maps of their parts of their parts of the complexes TFL don't.

3D plans here. Why TfL don't provide them is a different matter

 

[plugwash]

I've seen those 3D plans before, but there are a few problems with them.

1. Some stations are missing, in particular the circle/hammersmith and city station at paddington does not seem to be included.
2. They are out of date (though this is a problem with NR maps as well) and in particular they predate crossrail.
3. There is no information on how they link up with NR stations.

This renders them of limited utility for interchange planning.