Trivia: The worst/most confusing stations to change trains at

[Julia]

On the Paris theme, the tangle that is Auber (RER A) / Haussmann-Saint-Lazare (RER E) which manages to link up with Saint-Lazare, Saint-Augustin, Havre-Caumartin, and Opera on the metro.

Edit: here's a Youtube which explains how it's evolved into insanity...

 

[WesternBiker]

New York Penn is utterly hateful. Trying to change between Amtrak, NJT and LIRR is a nightmare. It’s worse than New Street and I hate New Street.

I'd second both those sentiments! Late at night, Penn can be quite scary, too (I commuted for a short while on the LIRR).

I'd add Stratford to the list. The fact the two DLR lines are in separate parts of the station and the two Underground lines are similarly separated, adds to the confusion.

And if we are being International, Tokyo (Central) station has to take the biscuit. For those who have never been there, the fact it is on 5 levels, makes it more fun. I travelled there in the 1990s and managed to change from the Narita Express to the Tokaido Shinkansen okay in about 10 minutes, but a colleague spent 40 minutes completely lost, and missed his connection. One hopes signage has improved. (It helps to know that the line to Osaka is the Tokaido Shinkansen - he didn't...)

 

[david1212]

For changing trains another vote for Birmingham New Street whenever the change requires passing through two sets of barriers.
The main section is fine and far more space than before the rebuilding. However for platforms that now have separate barriers I somehow never seem to find the shortest route to them.
Previously with the single main bridge while it could be crowded all platforms were accessible.

 

[duncanp]

For changing trains another vote for Birmingham New Street whenever the change requires passing through two sets of barriers.
The main section is fine and far more space than before the rebuilding. However for platforms that now have separate barriers I somehow never seem to find the shortest route to them.
Previously with the single main bridge while it could be crowded all platforms were accessible.

The trick to changing trains at Birmingham New Street is to use the exit at the "B" end of the platforms, which is at the Northern end of the station.

Coming up from the platform, you emerge into a single corridor (called the "red lounge") which links all platforms, and has a waiting area, indicator boards, retail outlets and toilets.

The problem with this is if your exit from the train is nearer to the "A" end of the platforms, aa you emerge into one of two separate areas, which are separated by the corridor leading to one of the exits from the station.

I agree that it is confusing for someone not familiar with the station.

 

[thenorthern]

I know CrossCountry used to have a guide at the back of every timetable on how to avoid changing trains at New Street, I think it had Leamington Spa, Wolverhampton, Cheltenham Spa and Derby as recommended places.

I suppose given the CrossCountry network centers around Birmingham there are a lot more people who are unfamiliar with Birmingham let alone New Street station changing trains there compared to other stations with a high amount of interchanges.

 

[Dr Hoo]

For changing trains another vote for Birmingham New Street whenever the change requires passing through two sets of barriers.
The main section is fine and far more space than before the rebuilding. However for platforms that now have separate barriers I somehow never seem to find the shortest route to them.
Previously with the single main bridge while it could be crowded all platforms were accessible.

To support the reply by @duncanp .

No interchange requires passing through two sets of barriers. The 'B end'/aka Red Zone/Lounge can meet all needs.

Ever since New Street opened (on a smaller scale) in the 1850s there has been one bridge to meet all interchange needs. This principle has survived through all subsequent enlargements and re-buildings. The B end/Red Zone has inherited that mantle of the one bridge.

Unlike (say) Edinburgh Waverley or Cardiff Central (Platform 0) no platforms have (only) 'separate barriers'.

Even if you do end up emerging at the 'wrong end' there is no real problem in passing through two sets of barriers. The staff are not going to prosecute you and the barriers are not programmed to eat your half-used ticket. The published interchange time allows for normal use of either end.

 

[plugwash]

Manchester Piccadilly to/fro/on platforms 13 & 14.

There is a perfectly good overbridge, but most passengers seem to ignore it in favour of going the long way round via the main concourse and travelators.

 

[JRT]

There is a perfectly good overbridge, but most passengers seem to ignore it in favour of going the long way round via the main concourse and travelators.

It wasn’t there when I travelled regularly through Piccadilly years ago, so I tend to forget it's there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2022 ==

Shipley.

5 platforms. Local passengers seem to struggle with Bradford Forster Square with 3 platforms and New Pudsey (2), so don't think they should go to Leeds with 17?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Someone going from Hayes & Harlington to Hounslow, possibly?

Quicker to go via Paddington and Waterloo.

Even quicker to take H98 bus.

Can see why Hayes & Harlington to Hounslow East, Hounslow Central or Hounslow West might route this way.

 

[Ken H]

It wasn’t there when I travelled regularly through Piccadilly years ago, so I tend to forget it's there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2022 ==


5 platforms. Local passengers seem to struggle with Bradford Forster Square with 3 platforms and New Pudsey (2), so don't think they should go to Leeds with 17?

Shipley is a bit odd. The Leeds - Keighley platforms are a bit out of the way across a car park. And it has so many entrances so if you go in by one you dont usually use it can take a while to orient yourself.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Someone going from Hayes & Harlington to Hounslow, possibly?

Wouldn't you change at T2/3 ?

 

[MisterSheeps]

There is a perfectly good overbridge,

and it avoids most of the ticket gate queues

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Shipley is a bit odd. The Leeds - Keighley platforms are a bit out of the way across a car park. And it has so many entrances so if you go in by one you dont usually use it can take a while to orient yourself.

It was weirder back in the day when it didn't have platforms on the busiest arm of the triangle. I can see it being a bit awkward for journeys towards Leeds or Skipton as the two platforms those services might use are a long way apart from each other. For Bradford it's a bit easier. That being said, there isn't really any way of improving that situation without causing bigger problems or making it necessary for some services to omit Shipley altogether.

 

[dosxuk]

Another vote for Waverley and it's incomprehensible layout that only makes sense when drawn on paper and explained, and Birmingham New Street for giving you absolutely no idea where you are in the station until you escape it.

Something I had never considered, having used the station 100s of times, but recently had someone ask me where platform 9 (I think it was 9) was when standing on the said platform -why? Well IIRC all the signs in sight said 9A or 9B or 9C or 9D and not 9 without any suffix ! So they thought p9 was somewhere else.

Sounds silly, until you go to Sheffield and find that 2, 2A and 2B are all the same platform face, but 2C is tucked around the corner out of sight (and out of mind?). I've never understood that, considering all the other bay platforms have their own unique numbers.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sounds silly, until you go to Sheffield and find that 2, 2A and 2B are all the same platform face, but 2C is tucked around the corner out of sight (and out of mind?). I've never understood that, considering all the other bay platforms have their own unique numbers.

At Sheffield, Platform 2C is actually relatively recent. It's minimal length marks it down as a classic BR Modernisation Plan DMU facility.

So it was added to an already established numbering system.

 

[plugwash]

It's not exactly a station, but I would say London is the most intimidating place to interchange.

1. There are a number of very large station complexes.
2. You will more likely than not have to change twice. Three times if you are unlucky.
3. The planners don't understand the underground and always treat it as a single leg even if two legs are actually required. This leeds to poor routing, for example if you are travelling from letchworth to salisbury the planners will tell you to change at St pancras (which requires two tubes to reach waterloo) rather than London bridge (which only requires one).
4. The underground feels like a rabbit warren
5. It's basically impossible to research your interchanges in advance, because while NR provide maps of their parts of their parts of the complexes TFL don't.
6. They council signposted an alternative walking route from Euston to Kings Cross/St pancras to avoid the fumes on Euston road. Unfortunately if you actually try to follow said route from Euston then you will likely end up lost in north London because of a poorly signposted junction.

 

[FenMan]

It's not exactly a station, but I would say London is the most intimidating place to interchange.

1. There are a number of very large station complexes.
2. You will more likely than not have to change twice. Three times if you are unlucky.
3. The planners don't understand the underground and always treat it as a single leg even if two legs are actually required. This leeds to poor routing, for example if you are travelling from letchworth to salisbury the planners will tell you to change at St pancras (which requires two tubes to reach waterloo) rather than London bridge (which only requires one).
4. The underground feels like a rabbit warren
5. It's basically impossible to research your interchanges in advance, because while NR provide maps of their parts of their parts of the complexes TFL don't.
6. They council signposted an alternative walking route from Euston to Kings Cross/St pancras to avoid the fumes on Euston road. Unfortunately if you actually try to follow said route from Euston then you will likely end up lost in north London because of a poorly signposted junction.

7. TfL managing pedestrian traffic at key interchange stations by routeing passengers the long way round (the Victoria Line to KGX Mainline interchange at Kings Cross St. Pancras being a prime example). Savvy locals just ignore the signs.

 

[Recessio]

Well it may be "clearly marked", but it's about three times as complex and indirect as it was before.

Agreed - whoever did the design idea that most of the new London Bridge station (and half the catering outlets) should be inside the gates was a complete muppet. There's nothing quite like tapping in only then to realise the trains are stuffed after you've paid your cash.

Clearly a station designed by someone that a) has never used a train in their life, and b) is blind.

 

[swaldman]

Honorable mention to Inverness Platform 7. Rarely used, which is a good thing because nobody knows where it is....

 

[Techniquest]

My vote for most confusing layouts are Edinburgh Waverley and Stratford. I haven't been to Edinburgh for quite some time, and in October 2020 when I was last there it was basically off the sleeper, into Nero and out of the station, so I wasn't too affected by the crazy layout. Other times, when I've been there red-penning stuff, the platform layout would always catch me out and I always struggled to find my way around.

Stratford, well I can't remember what my actual journey was now, but when I was last in London on a red-penning spree I found myself in Stratford. Whichever way I was going, all I remember is that it took me some time to find the way I wanted and a double-back.

I'm sure for regular passengers, they're both easy enough, but for infrequent visitors they're not fun. Birmingham New Street I have no issues with, I can see why it would be a bit 'where do I need to go?' to a visitor though. It's a station I've used many, many times so it's not too bad for me. I can make a connection from platform 10B to platform 3A in less than 3 minutes, I think I could do it in 2 minutes if I had had less people in front of me!

Another one I'm not a fan of is Leeds, it does take some navigating if you're not too sure where you're going. The lowest numbered platforms are the worst for that, I've come very close to missing a train from there in the past. Not quite as confusing as Stratford or Edinburgh though!

 

[Ken H]

My vote for most confusing layouts are Edinburgh Waverley and Stratford. I haven't been to Edinburgh for quite some time, and in October 2020 when I was last there it was basically off the sleeper, into Nero and out of the station, so I wasn't too affected by the crazy layout. Other times, when I've been there red-penning stuff, the platform layout would always catch me out and I always struggled to find my way around.

Stratford, well I can't remember what my actual journey was now, but when I was last in London on a red-penning spree I found myself in Stratford. Whichever way I was going, all I remember is that it took me some time to find the way I wanted and a double-back.

I'm sure for regular passengers, they're both easy enough, but for infrequent visitors they're not fun. Birmingham New Street I have no issues with, I can see why it would be a bit 'where do I need to go?' to a visitor though. It's a station I've used many, many times so it's not too bad for me. I can make a connection from platform 10B to platform 3A in less than 3 minutes, I think I could do it in 2 minutes if I had had less people in front of me!

Another one I'm not a fan of is Leeds, it does take some navigating if you're not too sure where you're going. The lowest numbered platforms are the worst for that, I've come very close to missing a train from there in the past. Not quite as confusing as Stratford or Edinburgh though!

Toilets take some finding on Leeds station inside the barriers. The ones on plat 1 always seem to be out of use.

 

[Techniquest]

Toilets take some finding on Leeds station inside the barriers. The ones on plat 1 always seem to be out of use.

This is a good point, and I didn't know such a thing existed by platform 1. To be fair though, I'm not usually hanging around by that area for long, it's normally off a train and straight to the next one/exit or vice-versa.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Another one I'm not a fan of is Leeds, it does take some navigating if you're not too sure where you're going. The lowest numbered platforms are the worst for that, I've come very close to missing a train from there in the past. Not quite as confusing as Stratford or Edinburgh though!

Leeds can be a pain, but I wouldn't say it was particularly confusing (other than me still having the pre-rebuild platform numbers in my memory so I have to remind myself that what was platform 5 has been platform 8 for the last twenty years!), for example the platforms are at least numbered logically. I can see how the unfamiliar could be confused though, as the lower numbered platforms are a bit hidden if you come in on the high numbered side. The main problem though is the narrow staircases and escalators, and the congested bridge. Tight connections are particularly stressful simply down to the inadequate space for the volume of passengers.

 

[urbophile]

If we can expand to OP to changing between stations, Euston to St Pancras/Kings Cross is a pain. Literally so if you have to struggle between them with heavy luggage as I have just done. The distance is no more than between terminals at a major airport. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of designers to instal a travelator: I know that would involve some disturbance to property en route but much less so than the current expansion of Euston for HS2. At the very least the stairs down to Eversholt Sreet from Euston should be replaced by a ramp; the current step-free access is by way of a narrow and scruffy passageway. Then either you are faced with the congested Euston Road or an interesting but confusing short cut through a couple of Art Deco housing estates:great when you aren't n a hurry or encumbered with luggage. Massive planning failure not to integrate the HS2 terminus with HS1.

 

[Andyjs247]

Willesden Junction is confusing but not in the same league as Stratford. If the wind is in the wrong direction it’s also quite smelly.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If we can expand to OP to changing between stations, Euston to St Pancras/Kings Cross is a pain. Literally so if you have to struggle between them with heavy luggage as I have just done. The distance is no more than between terminals at a major airport. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of designers to instal a travelator: I know that would involve some disturbance to property en route but much less so than the current expansion of Euston for HS2. At the very least the stairs down to Eversholt Sreet from Euston should be replaced by a ramp; the current step-free access is by way of a narrow and scruffy passageway. Then either you are faced with the congested Euston Road or an interesting but confusing short cut through a couple of Art Deco housing estates:great when you aren't n a hurry or encumbered with luggage. Massive planning failure not to integrate the HS2 terminus with HS1.

Of the three termini along Euston Road, I find that changing from the MML platforms at St Pancras to the SE platforms also at St Pancras, is more stressful than changing from King's Cross to the International platforms at St Pancras. It's years since I've used Euston though.

 

[jfollows]

If we can expand to OP to changing between stations, Euston to St Pancras/Kings Cross is a pain. Literally so if you have to struggle between them with heavy luggage as I have just done. The distance is no more than between terminals at a major airport. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of designers to instal a travelator: I know that would involve some disturbance to property en route but much less so than the current expansion of Euston for HS2. At the very least the stairs down to Eversholt Sreet from Euston should be replaced by a ramp; the current step-free access is by way of a narrow and scruffy passageway. Then either you are faced with the congested Euston Road or an interesting but confusing short cut through a couple of Art Deco housing estates:great when you aren't n a hurry or encumbered with luggage. Massive planning failure not to integrate the HS2 terminus with HS1.

I understand where you're coming from, and I totally agree with the problem of the stairs at Euston, but otherwise I find it trivial, easy and even enjoyable to change between Euston and Saint Pancras. I guess I compare it to when I had to change to Waterloo instead, which is a real pain with luggage on the underground. Travelator is complete overkill and, given the usual experience of their installations in the UK, wouldn't work most of the time which is even more annoying. Better signage so that more people can use the better route we've both found would be good, but there's something nice about knowing about a "secret" route also, well semi-secret anyway.

 

[Purple Train]

If we can expand to OP to changing between stations, Euston to St Pancras/Kings Cross is a pain. Literally so if you have to struggle between them with heavy luggage as I have just done. The distance is no more than between terminals at a major airport. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of designers to instal a travelator: I know that would involve some disturbance to property en route but much less so than the current expansion of Euston for HS2. At the very least the stairs down to Eversholt Sreet from Euston should be replaced by a ramp; the current step-free access is by way of a narrow and scruffy passageway. Then either you are faced with the congested Euston Road or an interesting but confusing short cut through a couple of Art Deco housing estates:great when you aren't n a hurry or encumbered with luggage. Massive planning failure not to integrate the HS2 terminus with HS1.

Euston to Euston Square would be another one. Not only is it quite badly signposted, but I can never find the entrance to Euston Square!

 

[L401CJF]

New Street for me without a doubt. I'm pretty good at finding my way around places. Go away to a foreign city with the Mrs, no issues. So if I struggle with it it must be bad!

Recently been passed out as a guard over routes in and out of New Street. My route learning was certainly an experience! My first time going in 10years, so first time with the remodel.

I was coming in from the Wolverhampton direction, changing and heading out toward Bescot, also down to International, and vice versa. So easy to lose your bearings. The connections I was making were fairly tight, I missed a fair few by making the mistake of going up the stairs with the barriers multiple times. It's a very disorienting place!

Trying to exit is odd depending which way you go, through about 500 sets of barriers if you get it wrong like me!

The fact you come in either side from tunnels, the whole thing is gloomy and all looks the same makes it worse.

We just pass through rather than terminate so very rare I have to go further than the platform. I'm confident with the important bits (platforms, signals etc) but still can't remember which end has the barrier free interchange.

 

[Requeststop]

I don't know how many of you have done the trek from St Pancras to the Metropolitan and Circle line. The signage is not the greatest and I paced it out at over 850 steps. I swear that you are almost doing an underground circle to get from both places.