Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[deltic]

Yesterday I was travelling on the Elizabeth Line from Heathrow to Paddington. Shortly after leaving Heathrow the passenger alarm was activated and the train came to a rapid halt. The driver quickly ascertained no-one needed assistance but then took 30 minutes resetting the train's systems and getting approval to proceed. (It was this train https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P85595/2022-10-03/detailed). Does it normally take this long or was this an unusually long time?

 

[Horizon22]

Yesterday I was travelling on the Elizabeth Line from Heathrow to Paddington. Shortly after leaving Heathrow the passenger alarm was activated and the train came to a rapid halt. The driver quickly ascertained no-one needed assistance but then took 30 minutes resetting the train's systems and getting approval to proceed. (It was this train https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P85595/2022-10-03/detailed). Does it normally take this long or was this an unusually long time?

Could have been another associated fault with the train after an activation. But yes, that’s an abnormally time after a passcom - normally a reset and you’re off (assuming there wasn’t an actual emergency) within 5 minutes.

 

[Val3ntine]

Could have been another associated fault with the train after an activation. But yes, that’s an abnormally time after a passcom - normally a reset and you’re off (assuming there wasn’t an actual emergency) within 5 minutes.

Also I believe a reset can also be done remotely from the cab on these units rather than the driver needing to go back into the saloon to do a manual reset. So definitely something more to it there I’d say.

 

[Richardr]

The lack of adverts on a train would be seen as a bonus for many. Who, (apart from the advertising agency) wants them?

The train company that sells the advertising.

 

[AM9]

The train company that sells the advertising.

OK, but I was asking who, rather than all of those companies in the chain who get a rake-off from advertising revenue, wants them?

 

[bcarmicle]

The advertiser? Arguably even some passengers if it means their fares are slightly lower than they would otherwise be

 

[Mikey C]

Having previous connected directly from the Northern Line platforms to the Liz Line at Moorgate/Liverpool St, I was confused yesterday when doing the journey in the opposite direction and following the official signage, that I was directed right up to the ticket gate level.

 

[Taunton]

I continue to find the western entrance into Canary Wharf Elizabeth station, convenient for the direction most approach from (especially when approaching from West India Quay DLR), closed off, with all escalators running upwards only, and all are sent to walk along in the open to the eastern entrance. Canary Wharf Management have had to erect supplementary signs showing the way. This was initially described as due to expected crowds, who have not materialised, and is in place even at wet off-peak times. Any reason? Is it ever going to be opened properly?

 

[matt_world2004]

The electronic advertisers on the Overground would be perfect for showing a tube map with sections greyed out for disruption and if they included them on a class 345 like this as well

 

[AM9]

The electronic advertisers on the Overground would be perfect for showing a tube map with sections greyed out for disruption and if they included them on a class 345 like this as well

That's fine as it could be helpful to passengers, - far more important than yet more advertising distractions.

 

[matt_world2004]

That's fine as it could be helpful to passengers, - far more important than yet more advertising distractions.

On the Overground they don't yet appear to be carrying commercial messages . More messages like

"no ticket no travel"
"bicycles are not permitted on Overground services between xxx time
"smoking not permitted."

etc etc and the date and time in a roundel

 

[AM9]

On the Overground they don't yet appear to be carrying commercial messages . More messages like

"no ticket no travel"
"bicycles are not permitted on Overground services between xxx time
"smoking not permitted."

etc etc and the date and time in a roundel

All of which are more important than some random advert.

 

[Fazaar1889]

What does it mean when they say that the Elizabeth line isn't fully open? I know Bond street hasn't opened yet but are you not able to travel from one end to the other in one train?

 

[Watershed]

What does it mean when they say that the Elizabeth line isn't fully open? I know Bond street hasn't opened yet but are you not able to travel from one end to the other in one train?

Not yet, no. Bond Street is opening on 24 October. And through running, from the west and east to the Core, will commence shortly afterwards on 6 November. However, through services from the west through the Core to the east will not commence until next May.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Ah thanks man

However, through services from the west through the Core to the east will not commence until next May.

Why not? What prevents the trains from doing so?

 

[hozza94]

Ah thanks man

Why not? What prevents the trains from doing so?

Playing safe I guess. Running trains from Shenfield to Reading Branch would involve switching signal systems twice whereas the services commencing on Nov 22 would only introduce 1 signaling system change per journey.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Playing safe I guess. Running trains from Shenfield to Reading Branch would involve switching signal systems twice whereas the services commencing on Nov 22 would only introduce 1 signaling system change per journey.

Ah right thanks

 

[Horizon22]

Ah thanks man

Why not? What prevents the trains from doing so?

Nothing physically, but it is more than anything for reliability & development reasons

For instance going from eastern & western stations adds a potential performance risk due to the integrated nature of the railway. The transitions were known to be a pinch point in terms of reliability too.

Secondly to run in 3 separate parts allows the central section to be effectively tested in passenger service and isolates issues to that section only. A lot of unique infrastructure and processes in the central part which have since smoothed out in introduction for the next stage. It has also allowed deeper test days of the full service running whilst not in passenger service on the weekend.

Thirdly, a political & financial cost. The reliability of the central section was - by all accounts - pretty good by Easter 2020. The line was overdue and over budget; getting that part open allowed TfL to collect fares and progress forward as opposed to waiting another 6-12 months for everything together.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Playing safe I guess. Running trains from Shenfield to Reading Branch would involve switching signal systems twice whereas the services commencing on Nov 22 would only introduce 1 signaling system change per journey.

Though I thought even the planned service next year involved Abbey Wood trains running west of Paddington, with most Shenfield etc trains running through the centre only as far as Paddington? There's not a current plan for a full Heathrow/Reading service beyond Liverpool Street on the GEML route is there?

 

[matt_world2004]

Playing safe I guess. Running trains from Shenfield to Reading Branch would involve switching signal systems twice whereas the services commencing on Nov 22 would only introduce 1 signaling system change per journey.

The Heathrow trains have two signalling system changes one at Heathrow junction and one in the crossrail core iirc

 

[JN114]

The Heathrow trains have two signalling system changes one at Heathrow junction and one in the crossrail core iirc

Correct

ETCS L2 (Overlay) T4/T5 to Airport Junction

“Conventional” UK Signalling (AWS/TPWS) Airport Junction to Westbourne Park

TfL CBTC Westbourne Park to Abbey Wood

 

[swt_passenger]

Though I thought even the planned service next year involved Abbey Wood trains running west of Paddington, with most Shenfield etc trains running through the centre only as far as Paddington? There's not a current plan for a full Heathrow/Reading service beyond Liverpool Street on the GEML route is there?

The latest on the Crossrail website says that by the full May 2023 service, (24 tph peak) there will be services between Shenfield and Heathrow. However they don’t mention the number:

The final timetable across the entire railway will be in place no later than May 2023. The service in the central section between Paddington and Whitechapel will be up to 24 trains per hour during the peak and 20 trains per hour off-peak. At this point direct services will be introduced from Shenfield to Heathrow Airport.

Welcome to Crossrail

Crossrail Ltd has delivered the Elizabeth line - a new railway for London and the South East, running from Reading and Heathrow in the west, through 42km of new tunnels under London to Shenfield and Abbey Wood in the east. The Elizabeth line has 41 accessible stations including 10 major new...

www.crossrail.co.uk

I’d agree that a through Shenfield to Reading service has never really been likely.

(Please note most of the previous discussion about this is in the other thread about the November through running.)

 

[Acton1991]

One thing I have been wondering - when we do see through-service, will the station announcements move to something like '...Elizabeth line service to Abbey Wood, calling at all stations to Abbey Wood', akin to what they do on the Richmond branch (LO/District line)? Or will they still list out every station. Could get long once Heathrow to Shenfield services start!

 

[Bald Rick]

Not yet, no. Bond Street is opening on 24 October. And through running, from the west and east to the Core, will commence shortly afterwards on 6 November. However, through services from the west through the Core to the east will not commence until next May.

I understood there would be a couple at start /end of service, but they are not shown on RTT.

 

[Horizon22]

Though I thought even the planned service next year involved Abbey Wood trains running west of Paddington, with most Shenfield etc trains running through the centre only as far as Paddington? There's not a current plan for a full Heathrow/Reading service beyond Liverpool Street on the GEML route is there?

A few tph, but no nothing major and nothing all the way to Reading. And nothing in passenger service East-West until May 2023. Heathrow <> Canary Wharf has always been a big driver hence why most West services run through to Abbey Wood.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2022 ==

I understood there would be a couple at start /end of service, but they are not shown on RTT.

There isn’t - several services continue to serve the high level platforms though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2022 ==

One thing I have been wondering - when we do see through-service, will the station announcements move to something like '...Elizabeth line service to Abbey Wood, calling at all stations to Abbey Wood', akin to what they do on the Richmond branch (LO/District line)? Or will they still list out every station. Could get long once Heathrow to Shenfield services start!

Reading to Abbey Wood will already be 20+ stations.

 

[thomalex]

One thing I have been wondering - when we do see through-service, will the station announcements move to something like '...Elizabeth line service to Abbey Wood, calling at all stations to Abbey Wood', akin to what they do on the Richmond branch (LO/District line)? Or will they still list out every station. Could get long once Heathrow to Shenfield services start!

I would assume you'll get something like "The is an Elizabeth line service to Abbey Wood, not stopping at Iver, Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton Main Line".

This is similar to how the screens in the central section currently show the Bond Street closure "Not stopping at: Bond Street".

 

[345 050]

I continue to find the western entrance into Canary Wharf Elizabeth station, convenient for the direction most approach from (especially when approaching from West India Quay DLR), closed off, with all escalators running upwards only, and all are sent to walk along in the open to the eastern entrance. Canary Wharf Management have had to erect supplementary signs showing the way. This was initially described as due to expected crowds, who have not materialised, and is in place even at wet off-peak times. Any reason? Is it ever going to be opened properly?

This was open today, at ground level, but it looked like some of the escalators were blocked off, so it may not have been easily accessible from the upper level - the bridge thingy?

 

[Acton1991]

Travelling in on a very busy Crossrail train this morning got me thinking - I do wonder how long the forward/rear facing seats will last. They cause such a bottleneck when the service is busy as I find passengers group themselves before/after these seats and don't travel through them to make more room.

 

[Taunton]

That's not so. There are plenty of people who can be seen to be walking up and down the train through multiple carriages.

Surely the bottleneck is with people standing in groups elsewhere. Something the designers seem to miss, with their claims of the ease of walking up and down the train, but also that there is space for x hundred of standees. Guess what, it's the same floorspace they are talking about twice.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Why does the clock on the electronic display on the central section count down to the arrival time of the train not the departure time ?