Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[brad465]

Kuenssberg: "How many people voted for your plan?"
*Pause*
Liz Truss: "What do you mean by that?"

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The establishment isn’t defined. It’s a bogeyman when people need it to be.

Fair point it was easier to define historically as it was the landowning gentry as they pretty much controlled the countries wealth until the onset of the 20th C when they were slowly diluted down but their institutions or guiding minds (Eton/Oxbridge) remained and a new breed have got the tag. Ultimately though it is a loose term applied to people who want to protect their wealth and continue to grow it at the expense of the majority. Blairs failure was to embrace the nouveaux rich and enabled them to become stronger in their powers to influence our politics and economy.

 

[Typhoon]

Interesting but, perhaps, predictable viewpoint from the former Levelling Up Secretary (and, one time, Minister for just about everything.

Former Cabinet minister Michael Gove has delivered a damning assessment of the mini budget and said Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng must address the multiple "mistakes".

He told Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg on BBC One: "This is a time of profound uncertainty and concern for people across the country. We're in grim economic circumstances, people are facing the prospects of their mortgages rising, people are looking to Liz and Kwasi and they want reassurance.

"They want to know this plan has been well thought through, that it will work, that it will command the confidence of the money men in the markets. But they will also want to know that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor share their values."

Mr Gove told the BBC there were "two major things" that were problematic with the plans set out by the Prime Minister and Chancellor: "The first is the sheer risk of using borrowed money to fund tax cuts. That's not Conservative.

"The second thing is the decision to cut the 45p rate (of income tax) and indeed at the same time to change the law which governs how bankers are paid in the City of London.

"Ultimately, at a time when people are suffering, and you are quite right to point out the concerns people have not just over mortgages but over benefits, when you have additional billions of pounds in play, to have as your principal decision, the headline tax move, cutting tax for the wealthiest, that is a display of the wrong values."

Pressed on whether he would vote for the measures in the Commons, he said: "I don't believe it's right."

Mr Gove did not say whether he had confidence the pair hold those values, instead saying: "There were a number of mistakes made last Friday in the fiscal event, the mini-budget, but there is room and time to address them and to correct them. That's the challenge this week."

I reckon that is not a bad analysis.

I gather that the Party Chairman has threatened dissenters with losing the whip. This tactic is what lead Johnson to losing a lot of the talent he inherited. Some of the government departments look very weak as it is. Johnson got round it by calling a 'Brexit' election and being pretty good in front of the cameras. Truss is pretty useless in front of the microphone as she keeps trotting out the same argument while Johnson would go down a different path completely, but no one would realise that until he had wandered off; and her principal boast is the 'energy package' which no party disagrees with (just some have it financed), unless she wants to fight the election on 'growth' which no-one will see in their pay packet just yet, and the opposition will raise 'banker's bonuses' and the 45% tax rate in response.

 

[brad465]

Interesting but, perhaps, predictable viewpoint from the former Levelling Up Secretary (and, one time, Minister for just about everything.

I reckon that is not a bad analysis.

I gather that the Party Chairman has threatened dissenters with losing the whip. This tactic is what lead Johnson to losing a lot of the talent he inherited. Some of the government departments look very weak as it is. Johnson got round it by calling a 'Brexit' election and being pretty good in front of the cameras. Truss is pretty useless in front of the microphone as she keeps trotting out the same argument while Johnson would go down a different path completely, but no one would realise that until he had wandered off; and her principal boast is the 'energy package' which no party disagrees with (just some have it financed), unless she wants to fight the election on 'growth' which no-one will see in their pay packet just yet, and the opposition will raise 'banker's bonuses' and the 45% tax rate in response.

Gove is also hosting/at a number of fringe events during the conference, which could make for interesting following.

 

[Herefordian]

Interesting but, perhaps, predictable viewpoint from the former Levelling Up Secretary (and, one time, Minister for just about everything.

I reckon that is not a bad analysis.

I gather that the Party Chairman has threatened dissenters with losing the whip. This tactic is what lead Johnson to losing a lot of the talent he inherited. Some of the government departments look very weak as it is. Johnson got round it by calling a 'Brexit' election and being pretty good in front of the cameras. Truss is pretty useless in front of the microphone as she keeps trotting out the same argument while Johnson would go down a different path completely, but no one would realise that until he had wandered off; and her principal boast is the 'energy package' which no party disagrees with (just some have it financed), unless she wants to fight the election on 'growth' which no-one will see in their pay packet just yet, and the opposition will raise 'banker's bonuses' and the 45% tax rate in response.

Gove isn't wrong.

The "mini budget" is a complete disaster and very un-Conservative.

Surely the myth the Conservatives are the party of fiscal responsibility is now well and truly busted?

 

[D6130]

I've just signed an on-line petition calling for an immediate general election. Sorry.... can't do a link from my phone, but it's https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Another horror show of an interview.

But interesting that she committed to maintaining the triple lock on pensions, but four times refused to commit to increasing benefits in line with inflation.

Now, which one of those groups has a significantly above average number of Tory voters in it, and which is populated by feckless wasters with 75” tellies and a Sky subscription?

 

[WizCastro197]

I've just signed an on-line petition calling for an immediate general election. Sorry.... can't do a link from my phone, but it's https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781.

I’ve read such petition page.
Has the debate happened yet?
I am confused if it has and that is is the CONservative answer?

 

[brad465]

I've just signed an on-line petition calling for an immediate general election. Sorry.... can't do a link from my phone, but it's https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781.

The petition won't be honoured and I expect many of those signing it think so too. However, if the signature count gets high enough, it's likely to be reported in the mainstream media, which will draw more attention to the idea that an election is necessary to end the current situation, potentially cementing current Government resentment the longer it takes to get an election.

 

[yorksrob]

Don't they agree to hold a debate - if it gets to a certain number. In which case it will certainly get publicity !

 

[Gloster]

Don't they agree to hold a debate - if it gets to a certain number. In which case it will certainly get publicity !

If a petition reaches 100,000 signatures, which this one has, it will be ‘considered for a debate in Parliament.’ However, there does not appear to be a right to have it debated.

Source: petition.parliament.uk site.

 

[yorksrob]

If a petition reaches 100,000 signatures, which this one has, it will be ‘considered for a debate in Parliament.’ However, there does not appear to be a right to have it debated.

I imagine that there might be a few on the opposition benches who would be keen to see such a debate !

 

[birchesgreen]

Interestingly she seems to be laying the ground for throwing Kwarteng under the bus by saying the 45% tax cut is his idea.

 

[Cowley]

Interestingly she seems to be laying the ground for throwing Kwarteng under the bus by saying the 45% tax cut is his idea.

To my mind if anything he’s actually ended up looking slightly more toxic than her this week. They both exude incompetence yet she can do something about that by getting rid of him.

 

[nw1]

The petition won't be honoured and I expect many of those signing it think so too. However, if the signature count gets high enough, it's likely to be reported in the mainstream media, which will draw more attention to the idea that an election is necessary to end the current situation, potentially cementing current Government resentment the longer it takes to get an election.

Just signed.

The Government have responded already it seems:

"The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations."

Or, alternatively:

"We are very important people, educated, unlike most of you lot, at Eton and/or Oxbridge and therefore our opinions are more valid than yours. What we say is always right, and we don't give a damn about what plebs like you think. We also don't care about the opinions of interfering busybodies the IMF or the Bank of England. Lots of love, Liz and Kwasi xx"

Still worth signing of course, for the reasons @brad465 gives.

 

[brad465]

Just signed.

The Government have responded already it seems:

"The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations."

Or, alternatively:

"We are very important people, educated, unlike most of you lot, at Eton and/or Oxbridge and therefore our opinions are more valid than yours. What we say is always right, and we don't give a damn about what plebs like you think. We also don't care about the opinions of interfering busybodies the IMF or the Bank of England. Lots of love, Liz and Kwasi xx"

Still worth signing of course, for the reasons @brad465 gives.

Both the petition and response came before the budget; but has since gained traction because of the budget and fallout from it.

 

[GC class B1]

Just Signed. Petition Approaching 400,000 signatures.

 

[TwoYellas]

Kuenssberg: "How many people voted for your plan?"
*Pause*
Liz Truss: "What do you mean by that?"

Those pauses were also prevalent during the local interviews she did a few days ago. Pauses whilst remembering which bit to say from her script. She needs to be a better actor to hoodwink enough voters.

 

[Darandio]

You can sign that petition all you like. It's been dealt with already, it's done.

A new post-budget one where they have to respond again would probably be a bit more useful.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not dealt with until it closes.

 

[Darandio]

It's not dealt with until it closes.

The government have responded to it. You can consider it dealt with as far as they're concerned.

 

[WizCastro197]

The government have responded to it. You can consider it dealt with as far as they're concerned.

The debate hasn’t happened so it hasn’t been dealt with completely.

 

[yorksrob]

The government have responded to it. You can consider it dealt with as far as they're concerned.

The bigger the number gets, the more visible it is.

 

[Darandio]

The debate hasn’t happened to it hasn’t been dealt with completely.

The bigger the number gets, the more visible it is.

And the official response at the end will be identical to the one already given. There will be no general election called in response to a petition, it's ridiculous to believe (or hope) otherwise.

 

[yorksrob]

A big number still has the ability to embarrass and cause awkward questions.

 

[WizCastro197]

And the official response at the end will be identical to the one already given. There will be no general election called in response to a petition, it's ridiculous to believe (or hope) otherwise.

Well it isn’t hurting anyone to at least try or hope for that matter.

As previously mentioned, the larger the number the more publicity is received.

 

[yorksrob]

It's also about letting Tory MP's know that the government has no mandate to institute this policy, and to beware for when an election eventually does come along.

 

[D6130]

It's also about letting Tory MP's know that the government has no mandate to institute this policy, and to beware for when an election eventually does come along.

I agree!

 

[Western Sunset]

One surprise from this morning's TV interview of LT, to me at any rate, was that members of the cabinet weren't consulted over the financial statement. So just LT, KK and all their secret backers were the ones to decide it all. And now LT says it wasn't really her anyway...

 

[BrianW]

Interestingly she seems to be laying the ground for throwing Kwarteng under the bus by saying the 45% tax cut is his idea.

Some readers may recall the 'Unassailable' Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nigel Lawson: https://www.desmog.com/2014/11/05/lawson-s-break-thatcher/
(For some he has to his credit produced the 'domestic goddess' Nigella)

Perhaps the less than unassailable current post-holder may have the opportunity of inspecting a 'Boris Bus' from the underside, or making use of a Tebbit Bike.

Nothing to learn from history.