Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[brad465]

This isn't over yet:

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The UK watchdogs responsible for the £1.5tn corner of the pensions sector that came close to imploding this week are holding daily talks with asset managers to stave off a fresh crisis when the Bank of England’s emergency bond buying ends.

Continued

 

[AlterEgo]

She certainly comes across very, very robotic, from those interviews yesterday.

Also noticed the long pause at one point, before replying with something completely irrelevant.

I do get the impression that even many Conservatives think she is quite seriously incompetent.

This is why the MPs should vote for party leader and not the members, one of the most deeply unwise cohorts in the country. Monied boomers, mostly.

 

[Cowley]

This is why the MPs should vote for party leader and not the members, one of the most deeply unwise cohorts in the country. Monied boomers, mostly.

Definitely. The MPs know the candidates because they’ve worked alongside them and they know their attributes and their shortcomings.

If nothing else comes out of this I do hope that this method of choosing party leaders changes back to a more sensible method.

 

[JamesT]

This is why the MPs should vote for party leader and not the members, one of the most deeply unwise cohorts in the country. Monied boomers, mostly.

Definitely. The MPs know the candidates because they’ve worked alongside them and they know their attributes and their shortcomings.

If nothing else comes out of this I do hope that this method of choosing party leaders changes back to a more sensible method.

The last time the leadership was solely in the hands of the parliamentary party, William Hague was elected as leader. (I’m ignoring the ones that didn’t go to the membership due to the lack of challenger).

All the major parties seem to have opened this Pandora’s box, presumably due to pressure from their activists that the parliamentary party isn’t necessarily representative of the views of the wider party. Corbyn could be seen as a similar failure, popular with the party at large but unable to lead his colleagues?

The Conservatives are probably the party who could stuff the genie back in the bottle as I believe the 1922 committee sets their election rules. Whereas the others would have to persuade their members to give up their votes and who would do that willingly?

 

[GusB]

The last time the leadership was solely in the hands of the parliamentary party, William Hague was elected as leader. (I’m ignoring the ones that didn’t go to the membership due to the lack of challenger).

I'd quite happily have William Hague back at this moment in time! Then again, I might be inclined to say, "Come back, Maggie - all is forgiven." Then again, perhaps not

All the major parties seem to have opened this Pandora’s box, presumably due to pressure from their activists that the parliamentary party isn’t necessarily representative of the views of the wider party. Corbyn could be seen as a similar failure, popular with the party at large but unable to lead his colleagues?

Why isn't the parliamentary party representative of the views of the wider party? Surely this is something that should be nailed down at a local level before an MP gets as far as the Commons. The first thing we need to do is prevent the parachuting of candidates into a constituency when they have absolutely no local connection to the area that they wish to represent.

This is an issue that isn't unique to the Conservatives either - it has to apply across the board; no seat in parliament unless you have proven links to the area you're standing in, and a genuine interest in improving the lot for those constituents.

Get local democracy right and the rest should follow on.

 

[JamesT]

Why isn't the parliamentary party representative of the views of the wider party? Surely this is something that should be nailed down at a local level before an MP gets as far as the Commons. The first thing we need to do is prevent the parachuting of candidates into a constituency when they have absolutely no local connection to the area that they wish to represent.

This is an issue that isn't unique to the Conservatives either - it has to apply across the board; no seat in parliament unless you have proven links to the area you're standing in, and a genuine interest in improving the lot for those constituents.

Get local democracy right and the rest should follow on.

Because MPs have to get elected by people who are not party members. So your average MP tends a little more centrist/pragmatic than your average party member who believes their party has all the correct answers. (If you didn’t think your party was right, why would you join and campaign for them?). An MP is supposed to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them.
Constituency parties are also notorious for their independence, selecting candidates not necessarily in tune with the rest of the party because they’re right for that area.

 

[Lost property]

I do see a lot of Labour and LD chickens being counted whilst the eggs are still in the nest. Let's not get complacent! Other parties are far from perfect and the Mail and Express will have their best out on dirt digging duty.

Nothing is more certain, but, let's be fair here. They both have an extensive track record of success to draw on when it comes to lies, fallacies, and publishing anything that sounds plausible to appease their faithful readers....I refer to their unrelenting Brexit campaign here, so slurs on Labour / Lib Dems / Greens...the Teddy bears picnic revolutionary party, you name it, they will slur it. Unfortunately, despite their very best efforts "beergate " showed a lack of consistency by failing, miserably.

It was mentioned by another poster I may have upset Mail readers when I mentioned pensions as these are a form of benefits. Benefits, as any Mail reader will tell you, are inextricably linked with scroungers and heaven forbid any self respecting, not that they have any, Mail reader could be classed as a scrounger !

 

[DelayRepay]

I don't think a Labour majority is certain even now (as Cameron also had 20%+ leads in 2008) although its hard to see how Labour doesn't get at least 300 seats now like Cameron in 2010.

Nothing is certain, and I still think some kind of coalition is more likely than an outright Labour victory. But, compared to 12 months ago, the odds seem very much in Labour's favour now.

At the last election, the idea of a Labour government was concerning, even for many Labour supporters. That's not the case now. I think the Labour front bench present themselves as a credible alternative government.

 

[AM9]

Nothing is certain, and I still think some kind of coalition is more likely than an outright Labour victory. But, compared to 12 months ago, the odds seem very much in Labour's favour now.

At the last election, the idea of a Labour government was concerning, even for many Labour supporters. That's not the case now. I think the Labour front bench present themselves as a credible alternative government.

I agree that Labour has managed to quite quickly present itself as a potential government over the last year, - in the same time that the current cabinet has turned into a collection of '58 Tufton St. approved fixers'.
The moderation of Angela Rayner has made her a useful dampener of attacks from the more extremist left in much the same way As John Prescott did for Blair. Rachel Reeves is looking more like an 11 Downing St. occupant than Kwarteng ever will. Then there are other names that are known quantities such as Lammy, Cooper, Nandy, Dodds and even Milliband, - all of which will have some attraction to some voters.

 

[nw1]

Nothing is certain, and I still think some kind of coalition is more likely than an outright Labour victory. But, compared to 12 months ago, the odds seem very much in Labour's favour now.

Yes, I would agree; to be honest I think the Tories would have had more chance keeping Johnson, even with all his faults, because so many people think he's cuddly and lovable, or whatever.

Sunak is probably relatively competent, but might be seen in the Red Wall as over-privileged, but I think Truss and Kwarteng have destroyed any chance of a Tory majority next time. Perhaps if Labour really mess up there's a slim chance of the Tories being the largest party, still, but it's unlikely.

I'd also say Labour largest party, with a similar result to Cameron in 2010. If Labour gained back all but 5 Red Wall seats, gained back 5 seats in the West Midlands, gained back all their Welsh seats, and in the south, took, let's say, both Milton Keynes seats, Reading West, Stroud, Ipswich, Norwich North, Southampton Itchen, one of the Worthing seats (yes, really) and two or three London seats - and the Lib Dems gained say Guildford, Woking, Esher, Winchester, Lewes, Taunton, Cheltenham and a couple of Cornwall seats (and Carshalton and Wallington back) what would Parliament look like? That is I think a plausible outcome.

(Is there a website which allows you to select seats you think will flip and see the outcome?)

 

[brad465]

The last time the leadership was solely in the hands of the parliamentary party, William Hague was elected as leader. (I’m ignoring the ones that didn’t go to the membership due to the lack of challenger).

All the major parties seem to have opened this Pandora’s box, presumably due to pressure from their activists that the parliamentary party isn’t necessarily representative of the views of the wider party. Corbyn could be seen as a similar failure, popular with the party at large but unable to lead his colleagues?

The Conservatives are probably the party who could stuff the genie back in the bottle as I believe the 1922 committee sets their election rules. Whereas the others would have to persuade their members to give up their votes and who would do that willingly?

Starmer seems to have partially rectified this by increasing the threshold of MPs backing a candidate required to get on the leadership ballot, so in future any candidate put to membership will have a stronger backing in the party. I do think they need to get rid of union backing in leadership elections though.

In recent Tory leadership elections they seem to have been caught off guard by the apparent weakness of candidates and resultant quick changing of leaders, so the rules have kept changing: the failure of May was blamed on her "coronation", so recently candidates have had to commit to not withdrawing (although how that's enforced is another matter), and in 2019 when so many put their names forward they had to change the rules during the actual contest regarding minimum MP support. They also did this earlier this year, although not in as chaotic a manner. The big failure though with this year's leadership election was letting it drag on as long as it did, doing damage to both the party (through infighting) and country (through lack of political action) during that time.

 

[Acfb]

Yes, I would agree; to be honest I think the Tories would have had more chance keeping Johnson, even with all his faults, because so many people think he's cuddly and lovable, or whatever.

Sunak is probably relatively competent, but might be seen in the Red Wall as over-privileged, but I think Truss and Kwarteng have destroyed any chance of a Tory majority next time. Perhaps if Labour really mess up there's a slim chance of the Tories being the largest party, still, but it's unlikely.

I'd also say Labour largest party, with a similar result to Cameron in 2010. If Labour gained back all but 5 Red Wall seats, gained back 5 seats in the West Midlands, gained back all their Welsh seats, and in the south, took, let's say, both Milton Keynes seats, Reading West, Stroud, Ipswich, Norwich North, Southampton Itchen, one of the Worthing seats (yes, really) and two or three London seats - and the Lib Dems gained say Guildford, Woking, Esher, Winchester, Lewes, Taunton, Cheltenham and a couple of Cornwall seats (and Carshalton and Wallington back) what would Parliament look like? That is I think a plausible outcome.

(Is there a website which allows you to select seats you think will flip and see the outcome?)

I broadly agree with this and Labour will also win some seats they've never won before such as Altrincham, Southport, East Worthing, possibly even the Bournemouth seats, maybe even Croydon South, Macclesfield, West Worthing etc as some seats Labour hasn't won since 2001 (hopefully see Shapps defeated).

I can only see the Tories holding up relatively well now in parts of the Midlands and North Kent/parts of Essex and East Anglia.

 

[brad465]

Last week The Sunday Times uncovered reports of insider trading ahead of the budget. Now they're reporting Kwarteng went to a Champagne party just hours after that Budget was delivered to celebrate with the investors in question, who told him to "double down" on his promises:

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1576260578946912257

SCOOP by @ShippersUnbound ft. me and @olivershah Kwasi Kwarteng went to private champagne reception hours after delivering budget where hedge fund managers egged him on to commit to his plans Investors who gained from plummeting £ told him: double down

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2022 ==

Kwasi Kwarteng’s ‘budget day’ cocktail party with financiers who may have profited from crash

Kwasi Kwarteng attended a private champagne reception hours after delivering his mini-budget where hedge fund managers who would gain from a crash in the pound

www.thetimes.co.uk

Kwasi Kwarteng attended a private champagne reception hours after delivering his mini-budget where hedge fund managers who would gain from a crash in the pound egged him on to commit to his plans.

The chancellor also gave guests insights about forthcoming government spending cuts during the event, which took place at the Chelsea home of Andrew Law, a financier and Conservative Party donor, on the evening of Friday, September 23.

The disclosure raises questions about Kwarteng’s political judgment. It will also raise concern that the event informed his decision to announce plans for even bigger tax cuts despite the market’s negative reaction to his initial plans.

 

[yorksrob]

It doesn't look very good.

The Conservative Government making spending cuts to satisfy the City gamblers.

I hope Labour capitalise on these links to the finance industry.

 

[Pete_uk]

Those revelations - if true - just pours petroleum on the fire.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. And The Times isn't exactly a "leftie" paper with axes to grind.

 

[brad465]

Those revelations - if true - just pours petroleum on the fire.

If the Met Police don't investigate them (like they were initially reluctant to do with Partygate), then they're complicit in enabling/potentially enabling law breaking, even if these revelations are not true.

 

[nw1]

Those revelations - if true - just pours petroleum on the fire.

If Kwarteng acted improperly I hope he faces appropriate consequences.

 

[yorksrob]

In truth, I have a lot less distain for partygate than this sort of thing. Humans are social animals, and whilst it's highly hypocritical to break your own rules on such things, humans are naturally weak. I don't condone, but to an extent, I understand.

I would consider deliberately trashing the economy to enrich your friends several magnitudes more serious.

Obviously allegations are allegations, but these warrant thorough investigation.

 

[Simon11]

Why isn't the parliamentary party representative of the views of the wider party? Surely this is something that should be nailed down at a local level before an MP gets as far as the Commons. The first thing we need to do is prevent the parachuting of candidates into a constituency when they have absolutely no local connection to the area that they wish to represent.

This is an issue that isn't unique to the Conservatives either - it has to apply across the board; no seat in parliament unless you have proven links to the area you're standing in, and a genuine interest in improving the lot for those constituents.

Get local democracy right and the rest should follow on.

I would expand upon that and for senior minister positions, MPs should have prior experience.

I fail to understand how parties can promote an MP to be Transport Minister, Education Minister, Health Minister without any experience…!

 

[nw1]

In truth, I have a lot less distain for partygate than this sort of thing. Humans are social animals, and whilst it's highly hypocritical to break your own rules on such things, humans are naturally weak. I don't condone, but to an extent, I understand.

I would consider deliberately trashing the economy to enrich your friends several magnitudes more serious.

Obviously allegations are allegations, but these warrant thorough investigation.

Completely agree.

In all honesty my intense dislike of Boris was more down to him enabling Brexit and putting hard-right-wingers like Patel in senior positions, rather than Partygate. I considered Partygate hypocritical, but to be fair Johnson was never a militant lockdown advocate - much less so than say Patel or Hancock.

 

[yorksrob]

Completely agree.

In all honesty my intense dislike of Boris was more down to him enabling Brexit and putting hard-right-wingers like Patel in senior positions, rather than Partygate. I considered Partygate hypocritical, but to be fair Johnson was never a militant lockdown advocate - much less so than say Patel or Hancock.

Indeed, and whilst I'm not strongly motivated on Brexit either way, I understand your position.

 

[Gloster]

I would expand upon that and for senior minister positions, MPs should have prior experience.

I fail to understand how parties can promote an MP to be Transport Minister, Education Minister, Health Minister without any experience…!

The trouble with that is that a party that has been out of office may have few MPs with ministeria experience. I think, although I haven’t checked thoroughly, that in 1997 none had held ministerial rank: Margaret Beckett, John Cunningham and John Morris (the latter attended Cabinet but was not a minister) had held junior posts. Michael Meacher had also held a junior post, but just missed being a minister.

 

[Simon11]

The trouble with that is that a party that has been out of office may have few MPs with ministeria experience. I think, although I haven’t checked thoroughly, that in 1997 none had held ministerial rank: Margaret Beckett, John Cunningham and John Morris (the latter attended Cabinet but was not a minister) had held junior posts. Michael Meacher had also held a junior post, but just missed being a minister.

Sorry, wrong end of the stick there!

I believe that for the secretary of state for transport position, the MP should have actively worked or closely been involved in the transport sector. How they can make major decisions and ignore view points of Rail Directors with decades of experience is beyond me!

 

[WizCastro197]

Not sure how Kwarteng has found time to tweet about that picture but seemingly hasn't when it came to his disastrous mini budget? Or that time when he laughed at the Queen's funeral.

Man is delusional


Can only see the next YouGov poll giving labour another hike in voting intention percentiles.

 

[JamesT]

Sorry, wrong end of the stick there!

I believe that for the secretary of state for transport position, the MP should have actively worked or closely been involved in the transport sector. How they can make major decisions and ignore view points of Rail Directors with decades of experience is beyond me!

I think that you’d struggle to fill many ministerial posts if you had that kind of requirement. Looking at the occupations on https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7483/CBP-7483.pdf there were only 7 MPs who were formerly farmers in 2015. Depending how those are distributed, a party might not have anyone to fill the ministry of agriculture.
Though isn’t this what the Civil Service are for? To provide the evidence base for ministers to make decisions from. Also crossing threads with the one on managing by wandering around, it’s arguable whether you have to have done a job to be able to make good decisions about it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not sure how Kwarteng has found time to tweet about that picture but seemingly hasn't when it came to his disastrous mini budget? Or that time when he laughed at the Queen's funeral.

Man is delusional


Can only see the next YouGov poll giving labour another hike in voting intention percentiles.

He's an Old Etonian living in the rarefied atmosphere of another world that 99.99% will never get anywhere near.

If labour get in with a big majority they better not squander the opportunity to cut the establishment down to size as Blair utterly failed to that is what has left us in this position.

 

[Kite159]

He's an Old Etonian living in the rarefied atmosphere of another world that 99.99% will never get anywhere near.

If labour get in with a big majority they better not squander the opportunity to cut the establishment down to size as Blair utterly failed to that is what has left us in this position.

If anything they will probably only make it bigger

The state of the country where neither option is appealing, such a sad place to be.

 

[SynthD]

If labour get in with a big majority they better not squander the opportunity to cut the establishment down to size as Blair utterly failed to that is what has left us in this position.

The establishment isn’t defined. It’s a bogeyman when people need it to be.

 

[nw1]

The establishment isn’t defined. It’s a bogeyman when people need it to be.

The establishment, to me, is the group of people who enable rich and powerful people to get richer and more powerful.

It goes without saying that Truss and Kwarteng are the very definition of the establishment.