Long queues for Eurostar at Brussels

[matt]

Are long queues at Brussels for Eurostar back to London a common thing now? I had to queue for nearly an hour last night and departed half an hour late as a result of the long queues.

 

[Zontar]

Was horrendous in the summer.
As a first time user, I followed the advice of arriving 45- 60 mins prior to departure. I actually got there more than 60mins in advance and the queue snaked round the entire downstairs, went out in to the street and doubled round a few times.
There was chaos, staff telling certain people to move ahead, others being told to stay out. Promoting frustrated punters expressing they have been here longer, and they're service is due to go in 20 mins, people with pushchairs/wheelchairs being brushed aside in the stampede.

It was nothing short of disgraceful. I chatted to some French punters on the train, and in their defence they were regular users and said they had never seen it so bad. Maybe it's the post covid boom.

This was 2.5 months ago, seems nothing seems to have improved.

 

[jon0844]

The queues in London were mostly down to people queuing way too early for their train, causing massively long snaking queues for no good reason. They were being turned away if they arrived at the gate too early anyway.

Staff did occasionally come out and tell people not to queue too soon and come back later to try and reduce the length.

I assumed people were coming super early because of all the press attention of airport chaos - without appreciating that the departure lounges for Eurostar are a lot smaller, and there's no good reason to get through extra early*.

* When the French authorities were on a work-to-rule go-slow a few years back, the queues were long for other reasons but in my experience the current situation is avoidable - but requires staff to be very proactive to inform people and reassure them. Nobody should miss a train, especially as Eurostar would ordinarily go find people to fast-track them if necessary.

 

[Segedunum]

I'm currently in a massive queue in Paris for the 1113 to London and arrived 80 minutes or so before scheduled departure.

The queue currently fills the entire upstairs and is snaking around the concourse. The 1013 is also delayed due to said queue. Staff were trying to locate passengers for the 1013 to get them ahead but the queues are insane and I think its partly due to people for subsequent trains queueing up...

 

[OldandRambling]

In any queue there is usually a "pinch point", rather like roadworks reducing traffic flow...

I assume the delays are just caused by the need to check all passports? Is there a big delay caused checking bags? What is the "pinch point" here?

Is there any other actual reason, I am assuming folk are only going to turn up to board if they have booked a seat?

It seems simple to have a queue for the "next" train, then a separate one for the one after, etc, so folk are not getting in each others way?

 

[M&NEJ]

The queues in London were mostly down to people queuing way too early for their train, causing massively long snaking queues for no good reason. They were being turned away if they arrived at the gate too early anyway.

This customer joined the Eurostar queue in good time because he and his son had also had to gamble with an Avanti service to Euston, and what to do if it had been cancelled. This summer was a disgrace both with Avanti unreliability and queues at St Pancras International. What a relief to join a Thalys service in relaxed fashion at Brussels with no worries or queues, and to find one's reserved seats not actually occupied by other people for a change!

 

[duesselmartin]

Considering Brussels has less trains than London, early queuing does not really made sense.
Last May I had a similar issue because of delays. As the previous service was two hours late, two trainloads queued. Also since re-developement there seems to be less queuing space in the Eurostar area causing an overspill?

 

[Beebman]

Earlier this month I arrived at St.Pancras about 90 minutes before departure (it was around noon on a Thursday). The queue was at the end of the Tensa barrier 'zig-zag' but it moved quite quickly and I was in the departure area about 30 minutes later. My return journey from Paris was on a Saturday in the early afternoon. I arrived at Est on an ICE from Germany some 2.5 hours before my departure time from Nord. After a leisurely lunch at Est I walked to Nord and I arrived there again 90 minutes before departure. There was no queue and I went through passport control and security in minutes.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

At Brussels, I believe the passport control from the Schengen area is now using the new Schengen-wide data system. This seems to take a little longer, but that may be transitory whilst it beds in. Last time I was at Bruxelles-Midi, 3 weeks ago, there were only three Schengen desks running and that seemed to be the holdup. The ES train was held by c.10 mins allow all to get through it.

 

[StephenHunter]

In any queue there is usually a "pinch point", rather like roadworks reducing traffic flow...

I assume the delays are just caused by the need to check all passports? Is there a big delay caused checking bags? What is the "pinch point" here?

Is there any other actual reason, I am assuming folk are only going to turn up to board if they have booked a seat?

It seems simple to have a queue for the "next" train, then a separate one for the one after, etc, so folk are not getting in each others way?

Check and stamp all passports. Once we move to ETIAS, the stamping won't be needed for UK citizens.

There are separate queues for different trains at St Pancras.

 

[tasky]

The queues in London were mostly down to people queuing way too early for their train, causing massively long snaking queues for no good reason. They were being turned away if they arrived at the gate too early anyway.

Staff did occasionally come out and tell people not to queue too soon and come back later to try and reduce the length.

I assumed people were coming super early because of all the press attention of airport chaos - without appreciating that the departure lounges for Eurostar are a lot smaller, and there's no good reason to get through extra early*.

* When the French authorities were on a work-to-rule go-slow a few years back, the queues were long for other reasons but in my experience the current situation is avoidable - but requires staff to be very proactive to inform people and reassure them. Nobody should miss a train, especially as Eurostar would ordinarily go find people to fast-track them if necessary.

I've heard this claimed, but can anyone explain why passengers have spontaneously started queueing too early for their trains around the same time there's been a surge in demand and new border procedures? Because it used to be a very rare event to see long queues, only in the event of disruption.

 

[jon0844]

I've heard this claimed, but can anyone explain why passengers have spontaneously started queueing too early for their trains around the same time there's been a surge in demand and new border procedures? Because it used to be a very rare event to see long queues, only in the event of disruption.

Don't get me wrong, there are changes that may or will slow down passport and customs checks - but people turning up three or four hours early (as they're advised to do at an airport, especially now they see the chaos there) are making queues exceptionally long. Once 'inside' things are more manageable and I've never had a significant wait, and certainly no worse than usual (bar the end of 2019 when it was insane due to the unofficial French strike).

 

[Beebman]

Tweeter 'Justin on Eurostar' (@EurostarJustinp) has tweeted a copy of a letter sent yesterday from Eurostar's CEO Jacques Damas to Huw Merriman, Chair of the Transport Select Committee, outlining the problems the company is facing post-Covid and post-Brexit (including passport checks taking longer):

https://twitter.com/EurostarJustinp/status/1574711574337495041

 

[island]

Check and stamp all passports. Once we move to ETIAS, the stamping won't be needed for UK citizens.

You’re thinking of EES rather than ETIAS, and whilst stamping will indeed be out, it’ll be replaced by the even more time consuming photographing and fingerprinting.

There are separate queues for different trains at St Pancras.

Not usually – there’s sometimes a diversion to bring people whose trains are about to close up to the front, but that’s about the limit.

 

[XAM2175]

Tweeter 'Justin on Eurostar' (@EurostarJustinp) has tweeted a copy of a letter sent yesterday from Eurostar's CEO Jacques Damas to Huw Merriman, Chair of the Transport Select Committee, outlining the problems the company is facing post-Covid and post-Brexit (including passport checks taking longer):

https://twitter.com/EurostarJustinp/status/1574711574337495041

The text from the letter is available in this post, for those who prefer it:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-not-serving-kent.236205/post-5866078

 

[geoffk]

Eurostar's business model assumed freedom of movement. An extra 15 seconds to process all the Brits, stamp their passports etc. soon adds up to hours. I assume all this is done in Brussels or Paris. It would be worse were it not for Eurostar running a reduced timetable.

 

[island]

Eurostar's business model assumed freedom of movement. An extra 15 seconds to process all the Brits, stamp their passports etc. soon adds up to hours. I assume all this is done in Brussels or Paris. It would be worse were it not for Eurostar running a reduced timetable.

It's done in London as well.

 

[StephenHunter]

That is right. Stamped into Schengen at London; stamped out at the Continental stations.

 

[Beebman]

At Paris earlier this month I was able to use the e-gates with my UK passport but then I had to have a manual 'stamping-out' by a French officer.

 

[StephenHunter]

At Paris earlier this month I was able to use the e-gates with my UK passport but then I had to have a manual 'stamping-out' by a French officer.

Ditto for me.

 

[XAM2175]

At Paris earlier this month I was able to use the e-gates with my UK passport but then I had to have a manual 'stamping-out' by a French officer.

It's been done for quite a few years at certain airports (Schiphol, for one) and it seems to be a wee bit faster, so it's good to see it being expanded.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

All Non-EU Passports have to be stamped in and out so that there is a record that you have not exceeded 90 days stay in the Schengen Zone (which is all that one is permitted as a tourist).

I went through Brussels on Monday evening. The ES train was almost full, the queue stretched out of the Cross-Channel Terminal from about one hour before departure onwards. However, there were 4 Federal Police (ie. Belgian) desks going and everyone got through with about 5 mins to spare before train departure, which therefore left on time. But when there are 3 desks and a full train, it seems to lead to c.10-15 mins delay departing.

It seems to me that the Schengen desks are the constraint on the flow, particularly on trains with large numbers of non-EU passport holders (afternoon/evening from Brussels?) Perhaps they could go up to 5 desks, but since ES seems to be heading to financial trouble again (all costs rising, although hard to imagine what the the problem is since I had paid c. EUR 200 one way for the pleasure of standing in the queue for 45 mins!), it may be impossible for the company to afford it?

 

[OldandRambling]

Are there any advantages to travelling from abroad to the UK via Eurostar on an E.U. passport? Separate lines, separate passport checks, or is it a case that the one slow queue holds everyone up?

 

[matt]

Are there any advantages to travelling from abroad to the UK via Eurostar on an E.U. passport? Separate lines, separate passport checks, or is it a case that the one slow queue holds everyone up?

Only one queue

 

[OldandRambling]

From Simom Calder 30/sept/22 :

Ashford International station in south-east Kent has a problem. It is not international, unless you count the Eurostar trains that whizz past at 186mph. The same applies to Ebbsfleet International in north-west Kent.

Both stations have cavernous halls for international passengers en route to Paris and Brussels. But the Channel Tunnel train operator closed both stations at the start of the coronavirus pandemic. Even though travel demand has returned, only the London St Pancras hub remains open. The Transport Select Committee wanted to know why such valuable infrastructure has been mothballed, reducing the travel horizons of the good people of Kent. So the chair, Tory MP Huw Merriman, asked Eurostar’s chief executive, Jacques Damas, to explain.

In his two-page reply, Mr Damas did not hold back on explaining the forces ranged against the train firm. Perhaps the fact that today is his last day in the job before retirement helped his pen flow more freely. While financial pressures and engineering issues have contributed to Eurostar’s woes, the main problem is Brexit. The British insisted on becoming “third country nationals” after leaving the EU. That means border officials must carry out extra passport checks. “The stamping of British passports by Continental police adds at least 15 seconds to individual passengers’ border crossing times,” he wrote. “Even with all booths manned, St Pancras can currently process a maximum 1,500 passengers per hour versus 2,200 in 2019.”

Cutting capacity by 30 per cent and pushing up fares, he wrote, may not look the greatest business strategy, but it has stifled demand and prevented St Pancras becoming entangled in absurdly long queues as Dover was earlier this year. Opening the Kent stations would spread resources even more thinly and add demand that cannot be met. So they will remain disconnected from Europe until at least 2025. “Eurostar cannot currently pursue a strategy of volume and growth. We are having to focus services on those core routes which make the maximum contribution per train and to charge higher prices to our customers.”

 

[mike57]

Just passed through St Pancras, very busy but through security and passport control in just over 30 mins if anybody wants a real time update.

 

[island]

Are there any advantages to travelling from abroad to the UK via Eurostar on an E.U. passport? Separate lines, separate passport checks, or is it a case that the one slow queue holds everyone up?

Only one queue

That does not correspond to my experience. At the French and Dutch stations, there are consistently separate queues for EU passport holders at the first passport check.

Both stations have cavernous halls for international passengers en route to Paris and Brussels

Can't say about Ashford, but Ebbsfleet's Eurostar halls are compact and not in the least bit "cavernous".

 

[matt]

That does not correspond to my experience. At the French and Dutch stations, there are consistently separate queues for EU passport holders at the first passport check.

Can't say about Ashford, but Ebbsfleet's Eurostar halls are compact and not in the least bit "cavernous".

The queue did not split till after the security check and it took the most time queuing to get to that point. After security it took a very short time to pass passport control and onto the platform.

 

[island]

The queue did not split till after the security check and it took the most time queuing to get to that point. After security it took a very short time to pass passport control and onto the platform.

I think we're talking at cross-purposes; it seems I'm referring to France and the Netherlands and you to Belgium.

 

[Trainbike46]

Security is after passport control at Eurostar's continental stations. Are you talking about St. Pancras? Because OldandRambling, whose post you were replying to, was not.

Have you ever been to Brussel-zuid?

At that station the order very much is:
- Security/bag check
- Belgian Border
- UK Border

Until the Belgian border there is a single queue, and the vast majority of the queue is before the security & bag check