Locomotive names which may be unacceptable these days

[Calthrop]

I agree with @Calthrop that the LNER choice of racehorses as a source of Pacific names was excellent - although a quick look at mu 1959 spotter's book does bring up some more which look a bit odd out of context: [SNIP] ... 60100 - Spearmint (but happily not "Bubble Gum")

I like the tale -- mentioned in the earlier thread linked-to in post #16 -- of the crews of shunting locos at Edinburgh chalking, when 60100 was due to pass by, "Peppermint" on their loco's tank side.

 

[contrex]

At the risk of becoming a bore -- I have a great liking for the racehorse-name theme: find it a stroke of genius on the part of whoever thought of it. Names of racehorses are, and always have been, gloriously random -- sometimes getting towards crazily poetic realms (and, it would appear to me that most people basically like horse-racing -- some opponents of gambling, nonetheless see the racing itself as a stirring spectacle). Different folks, different preferences: but for me, the LNER's loco-naming was definitely the most entertaining, out of the Big Four -- what with racehorses, and sundry wildlife. This may be considered heresy: but for me, the GWR was particularly drab and unimaginative, in its loco-naming involving endless blocks of stately piles.

The only A3 I have ever seen in the flesh was Flying Scotsman, but I still get a little shiver when I think or read about Sansovino, Lemberg, Book Law, Galtee More, Blink Bonny... I love 'Woolwinder' as a name.

 

[geoffk]

I agree with @Calthrop that the LNER choice of racehorses as a source of Pacific names was excellent - although a quick look at mu 1959 spotter's book does bring up some more which look a bit odd out of context:

60039 - Sandwich (not curly in LNER days, of course)
60047 - Donovan (remember him?)
60074 - Harvester (so why not "Tractor" as well?)
60100 - Spearmint (but happily not "Bubble Gum")

Sandwich was also a Jubilee.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I agree with @Calthrop that the LNER choice of racehorses as a source of Pacific names was excellent - although a quick look at mu 1959 spotter's book does bring up some more which look a bit odd out of context:

60047 - Donovan (remember him?)

Donovan is still performing, isn't he? Not that he was anything like the UK answer to Bob Dylan (as he was hyped up to be) but not a bad act. Some silly stuff, of course (Jennifer, Juniper, Calling Yellow Mellow - WHAT does that mean?) but Catch the Wind was pretty heartfelt.

Of course, the loco name had nothing to do with him. I wonder if he even knows of its existance?

60074 - Harvester (so why not "Tractor" as well?)
60100 - Spearmint (but happily not "Bubble Gum")

If you put it like that, it does make both look strange - but in the context of the A3 radomness scheme overall, it really didn't matter.

 

[Strathclyder]

Again, something mentioned by me on the other thread: the North British and later the LNER were a bit unusual in, at all "big-time", naming locos after characters in literature (appropriate to area of the country served by their system) -- in this case, those of Sir W.S. This seems to be something which on the whole, British railway undertakings "didn't do" -- rather a pity, I feel: a potentially rich source of names -- and of more interesting ones than often came about in, as it were, mass-produced-quantity naming procedures.

The Great Central did something like this, naming a good number of the 11Fs or Improved Directors (these becoming known as the D11s under the LNER) after poems, novels and characters from Sir Walter Scott's body of work.

 

[Rescars]

Donovan is still performing, isn't he? Not that he was anything like the UK answer to Bob Dylan (as he was hyped up to be) but not a bad act. Some silly stuff, of course (Jennifer, Juniper, Calling Yellow Mellow - WHAT does that mean?) but Catch the Wind was pretty heartfelt.

Of course, the loco name had nothing to do with him. I wonder if he even knows of its existance?


If you put it like that, it does make both look strange - but in the context of the A3 radomness scheme overall, it really didn't matter.

For pure randomness the LNWR must take some beating. "Luck of Edenhall" for example. How many other locomotives are named after glass artifacts displayed in the V&A museum!

 

[Taunton]

I'm perhaps being dim: but why that particular loco, as bolded by me?

The 30 GWR Kings were named in strict reverse chronological order, from the contemporary 6000 King George V when they were built back to 6029 King Stephen, from year 1100-something. When the two subsequent Kings came along in the later 1930s they renamed the last ones, in reverse order, as they happened, 6029 first, then 6028 not long afterwards.

 

[Gloster]

For pure randomness the LNWR must take some beating. "Luck of Edenhall" for example. How many other locomotives are named after glass artifacts displayed in the V&A museum!

Eden Hall is not far from Penrith: so a local name.

If this cup should break or fall
Farewell the Luck of Edenhall!

 

[Rescars]

Eden Hall is not far from Penrith: so a local name.

If this cup should break or fall
Farewell the Luck of Edenhall!

A case of poetry in motion perhaps

 

[Taunton]

For pure randomness the LNWR must take some beating. "Luck of Edenhall" for example. How many other locomotives are named after glass artifacts displayed in the V&A museum!

The LNWR range of names names were extraordinary, if not bizarre. In his 1960s book "4 foot 8 1/2 and all that", one of the few humorous railway books ever, author Mills has a cartoon of the "LNWR names choosing department", with all sorts of random nameplates scattered over the floor!

I often felt that loco names would be enhanced by a small plate underneath with a couple of lines explaining their origin.

 

[krus_aragon]

The LNWR range of names names were extraordinary, if not bizarre. In his 1960s book "4 foot 8 1/2 and all that", one of the few humorous railway books ever, author Mills has a cartoon of the "LNWR names choosing department", with all sorts of random nameplates scattered over the floor!

Absolutely! I dug up the examples I posted upthread from flicking through a copy of O.S. Nock's book Premier Line, a history of their locomotives. I only posted the ones that would be downright 'unacceptable'; there are far more that would be considered niche or barmy: Glowworm, Ixion, Turk, Edith, Problem, Giraffe, Croxteth, Umpire, Violet, Mazeppa, Clive...

 

[BigB]

Similarly, The Black Bitch pub in Linlithgow had its name changed by the Greene King group. Obviously in reference to a dog!

It hasn't been changed - Greene King proposed it to be changed which led to a local uproar and many folk boycotting the other Greene King pubs in the Town. It is still named the Black Bitch.

Note the black bitch in question is a binary dog of colour which is on the town emblem, and has a statue on the High Street.... and people born in the town are known as Black Bitches, proudly...

At the public meeting Greene King claimed to have spoken with "community leaders" but when challenged couldn't name any they'd spoken to in the town...

There does seem a trend for people to be offended on behalf of others, which is probably more offensive for the "injured" parties who obviously can't work out for themselves what offends them.....

The comments around Bongo fall into this category to my mind.

 

[Rescars]

Absolutely! I dug up the examples I posted upthread from flicking through a copy of O.S. Nock's book Premier Line, a history of their locomotives. I only posted the ones that would be downright 'unacceptable'; there are far more that would be considered niche or barmy: Glowworm, Ixion, Turk, Edith, Problem, Giraffe, Croxteth, Umpire, Violet, Mazeppa, Clive...

What great examples.

Let's be honest. The LNWR had a lot of locomotives to find names for, and giving a loco a name is a lot more fun than just sticking on a number. It even gives us something to post about a 100 years (almost) after the LNWR ceased to exist!

 

[Taunton]

... Problem ...

It was common in earlier times for loco classes to be known by the name of the first such. Unfortunately the first of a large class of mid-Victorian LNWR 2-2-2 express locos was indeed "Problem", and thus the whole class were known through their life, doubtless having to be said among engineers and crews with a straight face. You really have to wonder who thought that would be appropriate.

More recently, preserved A4 60009 Union of South Africa, which chanced to be one of a group named after various colonial outposts, suffered from political opposition to the government of that country, which must have really dismayed those who had restored it, and it was actually subject to some political student protests at stations when running railtours in the 1970s, along with unnecessarily bitter comments about it (and its owners) being given to the press, eventually leading to it being renamed Osprey for a while, which had been an original proposal for it. Times have moved on, and it's back as it was.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Eden Hall is not far from Penrith: so a local name.

If this cup should break or fall
Farewell the Luck of Edenhall!

OT - Was Eden Hall the Luftwaffe prisoner of war came in WW2? The one that two German pilots escaped from and who then went on to steal some sort of trainer to fly to the Netherlands or some such? They ran out of fuel somewhere around Norwich and were forced to land.

 

[Western Sunset]

Some railways, on the other hand, were very averse to naming their engines; the Midland immediately springs to mind.

A3 60036 Colombo made me think there could be a series of names of detectives:

Columbo
Endeavour
Morse
Lewis
Wycliffe
Rebus
Poirot
Holmes
Father Brown
Stanhope
Banks
Miss Marple

Or maybe not...

 

[70014IronDuke]

The LNWR range of names names were extraordinary, if not bizarre. In his 1960s book "4 foot 8 1/2 and all that", one of the few humorous railway books ever, author Mills has a cartoon of the "LNWR names choosing department", with all sorts of random nameplates scattered over the floor!

I often felt that loco names would be enhanced by a small plate underneath with a couple of lines explaining their origin.

Yup, fully agree. A bit like the Royal Scot nameplates after it had come back from the USA.
Mind you, it would have made them heavier and cost a bit more.

I think this is particularly relevant to names of people. For example, in the late 30s, into and after WW2, the Jubilee "Hood" was probably understood by most of the population to refer to Admiral Hood, or at least the battleship sunk by the Bismark. But by 1975 (or whenever it was named), I suspect few knew what the Class 50 was named after.

 

[Western Sunset]

Peppercorn A1 60125 Scottish Union might upset some politicos.

 

[Gloster]

OT - Was Eden Hall the Luftwaffe prisoner of war came in WW2? The one that two German pilots escaped from and who then went on to steal some sort of trainer to fly to the Netherlands or some such? They ran out of fuel somewhere around Norwich and were forced to land.

Edenhall is actually a village that was amalgamated with Langwathby in 1934. The house there was Hartley Castle, but it disappeared in the early eighteenth century. There was a POW camp at Grizedale Hall to the west of Lake Windermere from which Franz Von Werra, the only German POW to make it back to Germany, made an unsuccessful escape.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Edenhall is actually a village that was amalgamated with Langwathby in 1934. The house there was Hartley Castle, but it disappeared in the early eighteenth century. There was a POW camp at Grizedale Hall to the west of Lake Windermere from which Franz Von Werra, the only German POW to make it back to Germany, made an unsuccessful escape.

Ah, thks. Yes, it was probably the latter I was mixing it up with.

The only A3 I have ever seen in the flesh was Flying Scotsman, but I still get a little shiver when I think or read about Sansovino, Lemberg, Book Law, Galtee More, Blink Bonny... I love 'Woolwinder' as a name.

I'm fairly sure Woolwinder was my first A3 'cop' - though I have not clear recollection of what it was doing. It was also one of the earliest withdrawn locos, in 61, I think. IIRC, there was a colour? photo of it in one of the Trains Illustrated annuals at the time - perhaps coming over one of the Tyne bridges with an express, which is why it stuck in my young mind when I saw it.

 

[Taunton]

... Holmes ...


Or maybe not

Metropolitan Railway electric loco No 8 "Sherlock Holmes"

Of course, given that 221B Baker Street is physically on the site of the Met's headquarters at Baker Street station, it's quite relevant.

 

[70014IronDuke]

What great examples.

Let's be honest. The LNWR had a lot of locomotives to find names for, and giving a loco a name is a lot more fun than just sticking on a number. It even gives us something to post about a 100 years (almost) after the LNWR ceased to exist!

I think it does more than mere fun, certainly for me.

For a start, it gives the locomotive 'pesonality' - you remember a name, it's much more difficult to remember a number. (I'll come back to this below.)

And more: somewhere, out on the web, there is a photo of one of the four Black 5s that were named, sitting in Kentish Town shed. I think it is 45154 Lanarkshire Yeomanry. It's a side on shot, framed (I think) in window or maybe the shed walls. It's also very clean.

The nameplate stands out to the eye, and adds an unfathomable grace and beauty to the locomotive.

(OF course, I don't know how much that might mean, or not, to the average passenger, but the 'Big Four' clearly thought it had value.)

But back to point 1, which just happens to involve 45154. I have a very clear memory of seeing this loco for the first (and, I think, only) time, aged 8-9, in 1960 or 61. It was about 12.20 one day, and I was sitting at the north end of Bedford Midland Rd station, then platform 4-5. There were two, perhaps three of us, and someone - might have been me - asked if anyone had ever seen one of the named Black 5s. (At the time, as I recall, three of these were Scottish locos, and the other, 5154, was allocated to somewhere in the Liverpool Division, Bank Hall or Allerton or some such.)

This meant none of us had these elusive Black 5s underlined in our Ian Allan ABCs.

Now in those days, the standard MML semi-fast service was 1 train per two hours, and right then, during this chat, we could see, through the arches of Ford End Road Bridge, the 12.25 (ish) down semi-fast approaching the station from the south.

And what, thirty seconds later, should chug into platform 4, a few feet from us, but 45154 Lanarkshire Yeomanry!
That was some synchronicity - not that I knew the word at that age

But had it been 45153, or any other 838? unnamed sister locos, I'm fairly sure it would have been soon forgotten, as a several-times-a-day event.

 

[krus_aragon]

It was common in earlier times for loco classes to be known by the name of the first such. Unfortunately the first of a large class of mid-Victorian LNWR 2-2-2 express locos was indeed "Problem", and thus the whole class were known through their life, doubtless having to be said among engineers and crews with a straight face. You really have to wonder who thought that would be appropriate.

The name makes some mathematical sense alongside a DX Goods named Theorem, but it was still an odd choice. It's unsurprising that much of the press used to refer to the class by the name of a different member (Lady of the Lake)!

What great examples.

Let's be honest. The LNWR had a lot of locomotives to find names for, and giving a loco a name is a lot more fun than just sticking on a number. It even gives us something to post about a 100 years (almost) after the LNWR ceased to exist!

In their early days, the LNWR named all their goods locomotives too, like the above DX-class, Theorem. It's a good thing they stopped the practice after only 54 DXes, given that they eventually built a thousand of them!

A few more miscellaneous examples from across the years:

Witch, Phaeton, Rhinoceros, Thalaba, Liver, Una, Candidate, Shark, Castor, Centipede, Councillor, Harpy, Lucifer, Bee, Soho, Druid, Cuckoo

 

[contrex]

Not really related, but does anyone know the 'correct' way to pronounce 'Jub'? You know, short for 'Jubilee'? As in I copped three Jubs last week? I always supposed it was said 'Jubb' (maybe because of the 1963 Keith Waterhouse novel) but I have heard people saying 'Joob'.

 

[Taunton]

Never heard either. At Bristol, where they were still around into the 1960s, they were nicknamed among enthusiasts as a "Bubbly Jubbly", after a brand of cheap soft drink of the era.

 

[Calthrop]

Glowworm, Ixion, Turk, Edith, Problem, Giraffe, Croxteth, Umpire, Violet, Mazeppa, Clive...


Witch, Phaeton, Rhinoceros, Thalaba, Liver, Una, Candidate, Shark, Castor, Centipede, Councillor, Harpy, Lucifer, Bee, Soho, Druid, Cuckoo

Name-lists like this, of wonderful randomness: prompt notions of trying to think up a coherent story-line, from the sequences of words in the given order.

 

[Welly]

Witch, Phaeton, Rhinoceros, Thalaba, Liver, Una, Candidate, Shark, Castor, Centipede, Councillor, Harpy, Lucifer, Bee, Soho, Druid, Cuckoo

Imagine waiting on the platform for your mother-in-law's train being hauled in by the loco of that name!

 

[Western Sunset]

Wonder if the refined ladies of Morningside ever took offence at seeing 60160 at Waverley, though were probably happier with 60159.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Imagine waiting on the platform for your mother-in-law's train being hauled in by the loco of that name!

Could you explain, please? (serious question)

I would have thought 'Witch' would have been more of an issue myself!

 

[D6130]

The Great Central did something like this, naming a good number of the 11Fs or Improved Directors (these becoming known as the D11s under the LNER) after poems, novels and characters from Sir Walter Scott's body of work.

The original batch of 11Fs (LNER class D11/1) were named after directors of the GCR. The second batch (class D11/2) were built by the LNER, shortly after the grouping, to the slightly wider Scottish loading gauge for use North of the Border....and were given names of characters in Scott's novels.

60108 may have had a slightly different connotation nowadays. Perhaps if she had survived into preservation instead of - or as well as - 60103, she would now be carrying a bright rainbow-striped livery to outshine the bright purple currently being worn by 34027/70 on the Severn Valley Railway!