ECML disruption 20/09/22

[easter]

I am on the 20:15 from leicester, got a seat, st pancras was hell, announcement at sp advising travel to peterborough via euston and nuneaton!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Any reason trains couldn't run Moorgate to HN and back (like they used to) this is affecting huge numbers for whom a service could surely run?

Power was initially shut off between Biggleswade (or thereabouts) and Alexandra Palace via both the main line and Hertford Loop.

 

[Mcq]

We obviously need some battery/hydrogen thunderbirds at HN and WG sidings to maintain rush hour services

 

[59CosG95]

Power was initially shut off between Biggleswade (or thereabouts) and Alexandra Palace via both the main line and Hertford Loop.

Would be Biggleswade as there's a Neutral Section there. Ditto Ally Pally as you have Wood Green FS.

 

[johnnychips]

They seemed to have detrained an Azuma and at Doncaster and everyone crowding on the 3-car 158 1822 to Sheffield. Platform staff asking passengers to wait for the 1842 TPE if they can’t get on.

People who followed that advice would have just missed the 1900 Sheffield to St P, and the 1938 and 2000 were cancelled. I think the 2101 is running.

 

[Class 170101]

Trains halted after power lines damaged in Stevenage

It is understood someone dangled an object from a bridge on the London-Edinburgh mainline in Stevenage.

www.bbc.co.uk

Rail passengers are being warned of serious disruption to mainline services following damage to overhead power lines in Hertfordshire.

A man was seriously injured after dangling an object from a bridge in Stevenage that hit the electric cables.

 

[Envy123]

Perhaps this way was less busy? Was it? I mean it seems as if most went via Leicester and you went against the larger flow?

Possibly. The GA Cambridge train was full and hardly anyone could board at Tottenham Hale.

I’ll try via Leicester during the next disruption. At least the train is fast or semi-fast there, as opposed to the slow GA Cambridge service.

 

[uglymonkey]

Just got to Kings Cross, very little stuff heading north.

 

[Hadders]

Arrived home about 21:00. The bus from Luton to Stevenage was seriously overcrowded but hats off to the driver who let as many as possible board.

 

[Dr Hoo]

There has been a lot of comment on some of the Infrastructure/Electrification threads over the years that the relatively recent change in Standards for bridge parapet height on electrified lines is 'un-necessary', 'gold plating' ''elf and safety gone mad', etc.

Doesn't this sort of incident suggest that making it harder or less tempting to hang or throw items over electrified lines might be a sound idea?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Really quite hilarious to see a clueless Labour MP (Cov South) whose stuck on an Azuma tweet moaning about the service and why the railway needs to be taken into public ownership - on publicly-owned LNER

 

[RJ]

I travelled from Bellingham to Heathrow via Farringdon and Paddington at half 5 - only affected in a small way as the Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City service was curtailed at Blackfriars part way through the journey with a neat cross platform connection onto a MML bound service.

Pretty good that there aren’t trains booked into the bays at Blackfriars at that time of day which allows for a bit of resilience for the 8 car services at least. Are the sidings at City Thameslink still in commission?

 

[bramling]

It may well be true - you don’t see sane people dangling objects near live electric wires. Alternatives it could be bored youths who don’t know better.

Unlikely to be bored youths at the location in question. It’s an urban dual carriageway in a largely commercial and industrial part of the town, and the road would have been pretty busy given the time of day.

 

[plugwash]

I am on the 20:15 from leicester, got a seat, st pancras was hell, announcement at sp advising travel to peterborough via euston and nuneaton!

Wonder how that compares to travelling via Liverpool St and Cambridge.

 

[TUC]

There has been a lot of comment on some of the Infrastructure/Electrification threads over the years that the relatively recent change in Standards for bridge parapet height on electrified lines is 'un-necessary', 'gold plating' ''elf and safety gone mad', etc.

Doesn't this sort of incident suggest that making it harder or less tempting to hang or throw items over electrified lines might be a sound idea?

Not really. No more than entrances to motorways need anything more than a 'no pedestrians' sign.

 

[LancasterRed]

Really quite hilarious to see a clueless Labour MP (Cov South) whose stuck on an Azuma tweet moaning about the service and why the railway needs to be taken into public ownership - on publicly-owned LNER

It is upsetting to see someone so eloquently spoken and intelligent be mocked by someone on here for not knowing the facts. I thought this forum was above that.

----

If debris has fallen from the bridge on the track, then my first thought is that maybe said bridge isn't up to scratch, but other than that there's nothing that can really be done, just an unfortunate situation with even news institutions with high reputation such as the BBC wrongly reporting at first.

 

[High Dyke]

Doesn't seem a good day for the ECML again, a few delays earlier due to the barriers failing in the down position at Bullpit Ln near Newark NG.

In fairness, a set of barriers failing in the down position is pretty easily managed from a train running point of view, unless detection has been lost. This would mean signals being passed at danger, otherwise normal running of trains, but crossing closed to road traffic.

In regards the Stevenage incident, I got away from there before it happened. Phew!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It is upsetting to see someone so eloquently spoken and intelligent be mocked by someone on here for not knowing the facts. I thought this forum was above that.

----

If debris has fallen from the bridge on the track, then my first thought is that maybe said bridge isn't up to scratch, but other than that there's nothing that can really be done, just an unfortunate situation with even news institutions with high reputation such as the BBC wrongly reporting at first.

It’s not that I’m mocking her, it’s more the fact nationalisation is so very over-idealised by labour, and she doesn’t realise that she’s unconsciously complaining about how awful a nationalised service is. It’s ironic, that’s all, but I don’t want to derail the thread with politics.

 

[LancasterRed]

It’s not that I’m mocking her, it’s more the fact nationalisation is so very over-idealised by labour, and she doesn’t realise that she’s unconsciously complaining about how awful a nationalised service is. It’s ironic, that’s all, but I don’t want to derail the thread with politics.

Understandable. It probably was closer to misinformation known at the time. No harm done ^^

 

[zwk500]

It is upsetting to see someone so eloquently spoken and intelligent be mocked by someone on here for not knowing the facts.

Criticising something without knowing the facts is something that should be criticised. No matter how eloquent or intelligent you may be, you should make sure that, at the very least, what you know is not incorrect.

I agree with you they shouldn't be mocked though.

In this case, the incident was caused by an individual on the (publicly owned) highway causing damage to the (publicly owned) NR infrastructure, causing unavoidabke disruption to (Publicly owner) LNER. So quite what nationalisation is meant to do about somebody poking things at the OLE I do not know.

 

[gazzaa2]

It’s not that I’m mocking her, it’s more the fact nationalisation is so very over-idealised by labour, and she doesn’t realise that she’s unconsciously complaining about how awful a nationalised service is. It’s ironic, that’s all, but I don’t want to derail the thread with politics.

She would have been better making the point about funding rail and not looking to make cuts. Particularly as it wasn't a TOC issue.

 

[A0]

Whilst this was going on, over on Twitter, idiot Labour MP, Zarah Sultana decided to try to make a cheap point about this being the fault of a privatised railway. LNER's social media team's response is perfect - let's just say she's been 'publicly owned'.

 

[yorksrob]

There has been a lot of comment on some of the Infrastructure/Electrification threads over the years that the relatively recent change in Standards for bridge parapet height on electrified lines is 'un-necessary', 'gold plating' ''elf and safety gone mad', etc.

Doesn't this sort of incident suggest that making it harder or less tempting to hang or throw items over electrified lines might be a sound idea?

Clearly not.

Ultimately someone got a nasty belt off of this, and I hope they recover, but making railway electrification unaffordable by gold plating standards that have been shown to be largely safe for seven decades, and thus potentially pushing people into less safe modes of transport in the longer term, isn't the answer.

Continuing to educate the population about railway risks, and looking at the big picture of transport safety is the answer.

 

[zwk500]

Clearly not.

Ultimately someone got a nasty belt off of this, and I hope they recover, but making railway electrification unaffordable by gold plating standards that have been shown to be largely safe for seven decades, and thus potentially pushing people into less safe modes of transport in the longer term, isn't the answer.

Continuing to educate the population about railway risks, and looking at the big picture of transport safety is the answer.

For once, I largely agree with you! The primary cause of this was somebody poking at the OLE, and if people are determined to ask silly questions, there's only so much deflection you can put in their way. Education is the reasonable response to this specific issue.

I would say that adding Parapet extensions isn't a particularly costly or difficult thing though, and I think that areas of risk such as bridge should have a consistent level of protection at the structure itself (i.e. the parapet height should be consistent across all tracks). In this case, the presence of Parapet extensions over only 1 track may have indirectly led to an inference that the others were safe to approach, and it would not have been unreasonable additional cost to have fitted them across the whole length.

 

[Banham7]

In fairness, a set of barriers failing in the down position is pretty easily managed from a train running point of view, unless detection has been lost. This would mean signals being passed at danger, otherwise normal running of trains, but crossing closed to road traffic.

In regards the Stevenage incident, I got away from there before it happened. Phew!

Yeah, detection was indeed lost so trains had to be talked past a red aspect. I was on one of the affected trains and we gained around a 15 minute delay.

 

[yorksrob]

For once, I largely agree with you! The primary cause of this was somebody poking at the OLE, and if people are determined to ask silly questions, there's only so much deflection you can put in their way. Education is the reasonable response to this specific issue.

I would say that adding Parapet extensions isn't a particularly costly or difficult thing though, and I think that areas of risk such as bridge should have a consistent level of protection at the structure itself (i.e. the parapet height should be consistent across all tracks). In this case, the presence of Parapet extensions over only 1 track may have indirectly led to an inference that the others were safe to approach, and it would not have been unreasonable additional cost to have fitted them across the whole length.

I'd agree. A parapet extension is something that isn't going to require massive extra costs (involved with bridge rebuilding) so could be seen as a reasonable response in some areas.

 

[zwk500]

I'd agree. A parapet extension is something that isn't going to require massive extra costs (involved with bridge rebuilding) so could be seen as a reasonable response in some areas.

At this specific bridge (not sure if you missed the discussion) there is a parapet extension over the Down Hertford Loop but not over the 4 ECML tracks. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.889...4!1sD-EiLYeofg1M1aQ-7jT6mQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if posters might take this thread as a case study in how information and communication changes as an incident develops.

 

[uglymonkey]

I finally got home at 00:07 this morning, after leaving work at 17:00 yesterday !

 

[Falcon1200]

Criticising something without knowing the facts is something that should be criticised. No matter how eloquent or intelligent you may be, you should make sure that, at the very least, what you know is not incorrect.

I agree with you they shouldn't be mocked though.

Not so sure about that last part, this MP without in any way being in possession of the facts, was using an incident in which someone was at the very least badly hurt to score a party political point - Not that she is alone in doing that kind of thing, however.

In this case, the presence of Parapet extensions over only 1 track may have indirectly led to an inference that the others were safe to approach

I'm not convinced that a lower parapet is really sufficient to induce someone to interfere with railway equipment by dangling an object onto the overheads.