Is the use of cash dying out?

[alex397]

Are Sam Smiths pubs still cash only? If so, does anyone use them?

Definitely not at The Captain Kidd in Wapping, London. I used my card there and I didn’t notice anyone using cash the entire time I was sat near the bar. I get the impression Sam Smith pubs are not so strict in London though.

 

[Butts]

And any business paying staff in cash is clearly on the tax fiddle. Who does that now, bar kids' paper rounds?

Do you still maintain this view ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you still maintain this view ?

Paying staff in cash? Yes, I find it highly questionable as to the motivations of any business doing that.

 

[philthetube]

If a pub owner takes £500 a night in cash, and card takings as well, why would he pay in any other form but cash? Doing this avoids 2 lots of bank charges.

 

[Phil56]

There are still locations where there is no internet signal and maybe never will be one, something needs to be done for those areas before we can go cashless.

Transaction fees for cards are probably lower then the costs of banking cash and getting change.

Costs of banking cash and getting change are a lot higher when you no longer have a local bank/PO and have to travel further, in terms of time and mileage costs. We used to have 2 banks and a PO in our village (7,000 people, so not small), now we have nothing, so any business handling cash needs to allow an hour to travel to/from the nearest town, park, wait in the bank queue, etc. And that's on top of the bank charges for handling the cash.

 

[Darandio]

If a pub owner takes £500 a night in cash, and card takings as well, why would he pay in any other form but cash?

Because that's what he agreed to do when hiring the member of staff? For all the talk about convenience of being paid in cash, it becomes less convenient if a landlord decides to pay you in cash on a whim when you have direct debits coming out the following day.

Although i'd imagine that an employer suddenly deciding how to pay their staff depending on how transactions were made in their business that day is yet another RailUK invention, if not it will be very isolated occurence.

 

[Phil56]

And any business paying staff in cash is clearly on the tax fiddle. Who does that now, bar kids' paper rounds?

Even moreso when they employ illegal immigrants and others who don't have the right to work in the UK. Putting their wages through the PAYE system would flag up that they weren't legally allowed to work, hence they're paid in cash, which means no tax/nic deductions either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Costs of banking cash and getting change are a lot higher when you no longer have a local bank/PO and have to travel further, in terms of time and mileage costs. We used to have 2 banks and a PO in our village (7,000 people, so not small), now we have nothing, so any business handling cash needs to allow an hour to travel to/from the nearest town, park, wait in the bank queue, etc. And that's on top of the bank charges for handling the cash.

The trouble here is that those costs exist if you accept ANY cash, hence some businesses being enthusiastic to dispense with it entirely even if it loses them a small amount of custom.

 

[Phil56]

The cash is entirely beside the point. It's the payslip that provides the paper-trail. In terms of demonstrating that a BACS payment happened 20 years ago, which would be the likely timescale you'd be looking for here, well, good luck with that.

A payslip on it's own is unlikely to be accepted as proof, simply because they're remarkably easy to buy and fake.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2022 ==

The trouble here is that those costs exist if you accept ANY cash, hence some businesses being enthusiastic to dispense with it entirely even if it loses them a small amount of custom.

Thing is, though, that you don't need to go to the bank daily if you're only handling small amounts, maybe once a week, or even less, if the numbers are small enough. One of my clients is a small bakery/sandwich/pie shop who only physically go to the bank every month or so because they handle so little cash these days. A few years ago, they'd be going 2 or 3 times per week. They moved to card only during covid restrictions and customers just got used to it, so now they accept cash again, very few customers use cash. They are happy to go to town to the bank once a month, but wouldn't now be happy to go more often. They basically go whenever the amount of cash in their safe starts to get close to the maximum as per their insurance policy. The only cash payments they make are for their window cleaner! If they started getting more cash sales and had to go back to visiting the bank more often, they'd probably revert to being card only!

 

[takno]

A payslip on it's own is unlikely to be accepted as proof, simply because they're remarkably easy to buy and fake.

I don't think you have much of any way to prove that you got paid, since records of that age are routinely destroyed. I certainly don't have any payslips or bank statements going back more than 10 years. After that point I've largely got email copies, which are mildly less trivial to forge, but still not exactly difficult.

 

[GusB]

Paying staff in cash? Yes, I find it highly questionable as to the motivations of any business doing that.

Have you been round to every business in the country and examined their books?

What I find questionable is your assertion that anyone who continues to deal in cash is automatically on the fiddle. Business owners will run their businesses according to what works best for them, and not a according to the somewhat narrow viewpoint of a bloke on a railway forum.

In some cases, and especially if much of their takings are still in cash, it makes sense to pay wages in cash. In every bar I've worked in over the years I've been paid weekly and in cash. Cards are certainly more widely accepted nowadays (moreso among younger people), but most transactions in my local are still in cash.

If someone is on the fiddle, they'll find ways to cook the books regardless of how their staff are paid. That doesn't mean that everyone who pays in cash is inherently crooked, and you're wrong to make that assumption.

 

[adrock1976]

I'm unsure if anybody has mentioned this in this particular thread, but if the use of cash payments were to eventually become no more, what would happen with individuals who would seek the services of escorts or working girls?

After all, using a card payment which could have something like "Miss Dominatrix's Dungeons" or "Curvy Escorts" would remove all notions of being discreet for both parties.

 

[najaB]

I'm unsure if anybody has mentioned this in this particular thread, but if the use of cash payments were to eventually become no more, what would happen with individuals who would seek the services of escorts or working girls?


After all, using a card payment which could have something like "Miss Dominatrix's Dungeons" or "Curvy Escorts" would remove all notions of being discreet for both parties.

Prepaid payment cards do exist.

Congratulations, by the way, for winning the Railforums award for the most obscure objection of the month.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Prepaid payment cards do exist.

As do the names of limited companies not reflecting their line of business.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm unsure if anybody has mentioned this in this particular thread, but if the use of cash payments were to eventually become no more, what would happen with individuals who would seek the services of escorts or working girls?

After all, using a card payment which could have something like "Miss Dominatrix's Dungeons" or "Curvy Escorts" would remove all notions of being discreet for both parties.

There are various ways to keep things discreet.

You'll be fine.

 

[adrock1976]

Prepaid payment cards do exist.

Congratulations, by the way, for winning the Railforums award for the most obscure objection of the month.

I was not objecting, but was rather highlighting a scenario that does not seem to get mentioned very often.

 

[takno]

Prepaid payment cards do exist.

Congratulations, by the way, for winning the Railforums award for the most obscure objection of the month.

I think the specific case is slightly obscure, but the objection covers a fairly wide variety of cases. In much the same way as web browsers provide a gentlemen's browsing function for when you want to buy a present for the good lady wife, the brave new world of card payment needs a little anonymity

 

[philthetube]

There are things which don't immediately come to mind when considering this, what about milkmen who pick up cash from the step?

 

[Darandio]

There are things which don't immediately come to mind when considering this, what about milkmen who pick up cash from the step?

Surely you are also trying to win the most obscure suggestion award as well?

 

[birchesgreen]

What about Bob a job week?

 

[Butts]

What about Bob a job week?

Do they still give out the stickers you used to stick in the porch when you'd already participated ?

 

[Cloud Strife]

In some cases, and especially if much of their takings are still in cash, it makes sense to pay wages in cash. In every bar I've worked in over the years I've been paid weekly and in cash. Cards are certainly more widely accepted nowadays (moreso among younger people), but most transactions in my local are still in cash.

I remember working in one bar that was very much on the fiddle. Drink prices were 100% of what the till said, the tills weren't in view of the customer, and cards were very much not accepted. There was a handy cash machine on-site which was free to use as part of the fiddle too!

The owner was a good bloke though, it was nothing uncommon for him to throw 50 quid or even more into the pay packet if there'd been a good week.

I remember having a chat with him over a beer, and he said straight out that he'd rather chuck extra money in people's pocket than pay the taxman. He was getting away with it, because the drinks were absolutely extortionate. They made all their money from corporate events, so it was actually a brilliant job: you'd get your normal (taxed) hourly wage, plus usually decent tips from the corporate types who liked to show off, plus whatever extra you got from the boss. I remember working it out once, and it came to well over 10 quid an hour: and this was in 2005!

Mind you, the clients were appalling.

 

[johncrossley]

I'm unsure if anybody has mentioned this in this particular thread, but if the use of cash payments were to eventually become no more, what would happen with individuals who would seek the services of escorts or working girls?

After all, using a card payment which could have something like "Miss Dominatrix's Dungeons" or "Curvy Escorts" would remove all notions of being discreet for both parties.

Adult websites normally appear on bank statements as something less obvious. Although someone once told me that she read on Mumsnet someone asking what "Awork.co.uk" is, and didn't like the answer.

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm unsure if anybody has mentioned this in this particular thread, but if the use of cash payments were to eventually become no more, what would happen with individuals who would seek the services of escorts or working girls?

After all, using a card payment which could have something like "Miss Dominatrix's Dungeons" or "Curvy Escorts" would remove all notions of being discreet for both parties.

As would withdrawing the fee in cash. The same goes for other illicit/embarrassing transactions such as the purchase of illegal drugs.

 

[GusB]

There are things which don't immediately come to mind when considering this, what about milkmen who pick up cash from the step?

Surely you are also trying to win the most obscure suggestion award as well?

I had always assumed that they would pick the money up from the doorstep and pass it onto their employer when they got back to base. Perhaps I'm being extremely naive in assuming that most people are generally quite honest and do their jobs without trying to screw anyone over.

 

[DelayRepay]

There are things which don't immediately come to mind when considering this, what about milkmen who pick up cash from the step?

My milkman is paid by card. You order online and get charged for the items. It's very convenient as you can change your order up to 9pm the night before. For example I ordered extra milk and a loaf of bread to be delivered this morning, having run out yesterday while the shops were closed.

At the weekend, I took a couple of family members to Pizza Hut. Not my choice of venue but the kids like it. They seem to be completely cashless - you order and pay through a website. The website asks if you would like to add a tip. I said no, because a tip is for good service and at that point other than being directed to a table and told to scan a QR code, I had not received any service. If other businesses adopt a similar model then I imagine staff tips will drop.

 

[Dr Day]

Two teenage girls on my train this morning asked the guard politely for day returns to Filton Abbey Wood with railcards, and had the exact money ready. Rather surprisingly the guard didn’t say “you can’t use a railcard on the train” or “why didn’t you buy at the ticket office “ but “you can’t pay with cash on the train, you will have to buy your ticket when you get there”.

 

[duncanp]

Two teenage girls on my train this morning asked the guard politely for day returns to Filton Abbey Wood with railcards, and had the exact money ready. Rather surprisingly the guard didn’t say “you can’t use a railcard on the train” or “why didn’t you buy at the ticket office “ but “you can’t pay with cash on the train, you will have to buy your ticket when you get there”.

Isn't that against the National Rail Conditions of Travel?

I am sure there used to be a clause in the National Rail Conditions of Travel which said that you can pay for a ticket in cash if you want to.

Or is this yet another case of the TOCs surreptitiously changing the terms and conditions and hoping no-one would notice?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are things which don't immediately come to mind when considering this, what about milkmen who pick up cash from the step?

What year is it again? I had a milkman for a bit, payment was by direct debit and ordering was online. I wouldn't trust the local scallies not to go round nicking the cash!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2022 ==

I had always assumed that they would pick the money up from the doorstep and pass it onto their employer when they got back to base. Perhaps I'm being extremely naive in assuming that most people are generally quite honest and do their jobs without trying to screw anyone over.

I think you're in rural Scotland, right? I think it is fair to say that that probably is largely true in rural areas but to a fairly significant extent is not true in the major urban areas, at least in England.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2022 ==

Isn't that against the National Rail Conditions of Travel?

I am sure there used to be a clause in the National Rail Conditions of Travel which said that you can pay for a ticket in cash if you want to.

Or is this yet another case of the TOCs surreptitiously changing the terms and conditions and hoping no-one would notice?

"You can buy a ticket for cash" != "all sales channels must accept cash". Tickets must be bought at the first opportunity. For them, on the train did not present such an opportunity.

As with some short distance fare evasion, it might actually be the case that it is cheaper to let a short journey like that go than to have the infrastructure for guards to cash up and to process that cash.

 

[DelW]

I had always assumed that they would pick the money up from the doorstep and pass it onto their employer when they got back to base. Perhaps I'm being extremely naive in assuming that most people are generally quite honest and do their jobs without trying to screw anyone over.

I think you're in rural Scotland, right? I think it is fair to say that that probably is largely true in rural areas but to a fairly significant extent is not true in the major urban areas, at least in England.

So you are saying that "most people" in major urban areas in England are not honest? That seems remarkably sweeping and unjustified.

FWIW, I paid the milkman using cash on the step (in an urban area) for many years without any problem. I only stopped when they went card-payment-only a couple of years ago.