Is the use of cash dying out?

[DelW]

i had a bet with myself that it wouldn’t be long before someone mentioned the W place

Well, it's one way of tackling the cost-of-living crisis

 

[Dai Corner]

One of my local pubs has a regular ale at £1.49 a pint and guests all at £2.19, so you'd get two or even three pints for a fiver and still get some change.
(Yes, it is a Wetherspoons, and although the £1.49 beer isn't one I'd choose, the guest beers are usually excellent).

At least one free house and one brewery-owned pub in my city have decent ale at £3 a pint or less.

 

[JamesT]

Well that might cover the coverage aspect, but availability can vary in some areas even when the best for normal coverage is in use.

I suspect the real reason is likely to be they don’t want to pay the transaction fees associated with accepting card payments.

 

[philthetube]

There are still locations where there is no internet signal and maybe never will be one, something needs to be done for those areas before we can go cashless.

Transaction fees for cards are probably lower then the costs of banking cash and getting change.

 

[najaB]

I suspect the real reason is likely to be they don’t want to pay the transaction fees associated with accepting card payments.

That's much less of an objection than it used to be. Using Zettle as an example, the reader costs £29 outright and the transaction fee is 1.75% - which isn't significantly more than cash handling fees on a typical business account.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well, it's one way of tackling the cost-of-living crisis

Even better - don’t spend any money there at all! (Except a penny).

 

[najaB]

Even better - don’t spend any money there at all! (Except a penny).

Indeed. If you're complaining about how much your pint cost that's not a crisis. When you're complaining that you've not been able to afford a pint in ages, that's a crisis.

 

[takno]

Transaction fees for cards are probably lower then the costs of banking cash and getting change.

I keep hearing this, and yet for a lot businesses it isn't really true at all. The banking costs are usually fairly similar, but if you spend a large proportion of the incoming cash on paying your staff and going to the cash and carry then you may well save quite a lot on banking fees

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2022 ==

Yep, thats pretty much right, Ive just returned from Norway and Sweden which are essentially cashless countries, very few ticket offices are now open and all reservations are done on line. At 71 I must admit I struggled making bookings, but apparently it wasnt just me, many Swedes I spoke too also have difficulties using the Swedish app and website, Throughout the week I did find ticket offices at Malmo and Stockholm, none at Gothenburg, and even those were only open for limited periods. I was using a mobile Interrail pass, but I guess Im a card zealot at heart, in that I mainly pay by card and rarely use cash, or at least that is unless I can find a ticket office that is open for me to pay by card. Surprisingly many guards also thought it wasnt a very good system and it had been applied too soon for the general travelling public.

I've been to Norway a couple of times and I've still never seen one of their banknotes in person. Sweden is a bit more cash-friendly still, although less so than the UK.

The booking office situation for trains is ridiculous. I've always bought online from the excellent sj website, but the machines in the stations are absolute garbage. I literally couldn't buy a train ticket to Oslo from any of the machines in Gothenburg - they were only willing to sell me bus tickets. Ironically the bus tickets are also available in person from the counter in the bus station, although I suspect not with cash.

 

[Ediswan]

I keep hearing this, and yet for a lot businesses it isn't really true at all. The banking costs are usually fairly similar, but if you spend a large proportion of the incoming cash on paying your staff and going to the cash and carry then you may well save quite a lot on banking fees

To quote my local Chinese takeaway:

We currently accept the following forms of payment:

• Cash
• Credit Cards

However, we ask customers to use cash whenever possible, we are a predominantly cash run business and paying our suppliers in cash can help to keep our prices down. Card processing fees and PDQ machine rental adds to our overhead, which has an impact on a business as small as ours.

 

[najaB]

To quote my local Chinese takeaway:

paying our suppliers in cash can help to keep our prices down.

That kind of statement raises red flags - especially to HMRC!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And any business paying staff in cash is clearly on the tax fiddle. Who does that now, bar kids' paper rounds?

 

[GusB]

And any business paying staff in cash is clearly on the tax fiddle. Who does that now, bar kids' paper rounds?

Utter twaddle. It's perfectly possible to run a legitimate business and still pay staff in cash, including my local pubs. My window cleaner deals in cash and I assume he pays his assistant that way. I could probably find a few more examples - are they all on the fiddle, and where is your evidence to back up your assertion?

 

[Ediswan]

That kind of statement raises red flags - especially to HMRC!

I suspect that HMRC have a pretty good idea what the accounts of a Chinese takeway should look like. I get a till receipt, even for cash. It does double duty as the collection ticket.

 

[najaB]

Utter twaddle. It's perfectly possible to run a legitimate business and still pay staff in cash, including my local pubs. My window cleaner deals in cash and I assume he pays his assistant that way. I could probably find a few more examples - are they all on the fiddle, and where is your evidence to back up your assertion?

I agree that it's not a dead certain thing, but it does raise an eyebrow or two.

 

[Halwynd]

To quote my local Chinese takeaway:

I'd be tempted to find a new takeaway...

If takeaway suppliers are the type that actively prefer cash, then in addition to any opportunities for 'creative accounting' the 'quality' of their produce is often not of paramount importance.

HMRC do still investigate these types of businesses in detail, but the level of work involved and the number of takeways now established in the UK make it very difficult, and the takeaways know it, which brings us back to the ever increasing number on the high street.

 

[GusB]

I agree that it's not a dead certain thing, but it does raise an eyebrow or two.

It's perhaps a little archaic, and it's maybe confined to more rural parts these days, but I don't necessarily think it would raise eyebrows. I've had a few jobs where I was paid in cash, in a little buff envelope on which was written all the details I would usually see on a printed payslip.

My argument is simply that it's wrong to assume that every business still paying in cash is dishonest, as the previous poster suggested. For some people it's the way they've always done things and if it ain't broke...

 

[XAM2175]

And any business paying staff in cash is clearly on the tax fiddle. Who does that now, bar kids' paper rounds?

I was paid in cash completely legitimately working at a small business for many years up to around 2015, and I've the tax paperwork to prove it. As @takno says, we had a lot of cash coming in and it was far easier to hand a bunch of it back out to the staff than it was to bank it. It only stopped because customers were switching to card payments at an ever-increasing rate, especially after we started accepting contactless payment, and it was meaning that in some weeks there wasn't enough cash on hand to cover both the floats and the payroll (so there was an awkward interim period where people were getting odd mixtures of cash and the balance as a cheque).

Suppliers were almost always paid by cheque, but there were one or two very small operators that would be paid out of petty cash at point of delivery. They got receipts and it all went through our books.

I've had a few jobs where I was paid in cash, in a little buff envelope on which was written all the details I would usually see on a printed payslip.

We did get a properly printed payslip each time though, haha.

 

[Halwynd]

If anyone is still paid with cash in little brown envelopes, you might want to check with HMRC that any NI contributions that have been deducted have been paid over.

I have come across a number of cases when, upon retirement, employees have not received the level of state pension they thought they were entitled to because their contributions were never paid to HMRC by their former employers.

 

[Dai Corner]

I made my first

If anyone is still paid with cash in little brown envelopes, you might want to check with HMRC that any NI contributions that have been deducted have been paid over.

I have come across a number of cases when, upon retirement, employees have not received the level of state pension they thought they were entitled to because their contributions were never paid to HMRC by their former employers.

and indeed income tax. HMRC will come after you if they think they're owed money and if you can't show them evidence such as payslips or little brown envelopes with deductions written on you could be in trouble.

 

[shredder1]

I've been to Norway a couple of times and I've still never seen one of their banknotes in person. Sweden is a bit more cash-friendly still, although less so than the UK.

The booking office situation for trains is ridiculous. I've always bought online from the excellent sj website, but the machines in the stations are absolute garbage. I literally couldn't buy a train ticket to Oslo from any of the machines in Gothenburg - they were only willing to sell me bus tickets. Ironically the bus tickets are also available in person from the counter in the bus station, although I suspect not with cash.

I didnt see any cash while I was there, in fact Im not event sure what money they use, lol, the hard thing for me was I still use chip and pin, and all the station toilets were contactless, so I had to wait for someone to come out before I could use the toilets

 

[Dai Corner]

For the first time in years I made a cash purchase because the vendor didn't accept cards. This was at the Dean Forest Railway's Diesel gala beer tent. The ticket office and cafeteria had prominent 'cards preferred' notices though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are Sam Smiths pubs still cash only? If so, does anyone use them?

 

[takno]

I didnt see any cash while I was there, in fact Im not event sure what money they use, lol, the hard thing for me was I still use chip and pin, and all the station toilets were contactless, so I had to wait for someone to come out before I could use the toilets

The hard thing for me was holding it in until I was on the bus. I'm not willing to pay a quid for the toilets whether it's cash or card

 

[Busaholic]

If anyone is still paid with cash in little brown envelopes, you might want to check with HMRC that any NI contributions that have been deducted have been paid over.

I have come across a number of cases when, upon retirement, employees have not received the level of state pension they thought they were entitled to because their contributions were never paid to HMRC by their former employers.

There's no more evidence that being paid in cash can lead to pension deficit than being paid by other means. Many large, outwardly respectable employers have been later found to have failed to make the requisite payments e.g. those associated with Robert Maxwell. With others, like London Transport Executive and the London Borough of Lewisham, historic 'mistakes' can have been made with the same effect on pensioners. In the case of the two employers mentioned, my sister and I were each short-pensioned, but she had better fortune in getting hers resolved, with an apology.

 

[najaB]

There's no more evidence that being paid in cash can lead to pension deficit than being paid by other means.

While I agree that it's possible to get done over either way, being paid in cash leaves no paper trail that can be used to try and get what you're owed.

 

[urbophile]

Indeed. And there will be people who don't like this, and people who can't deal with it. The former are larger in number and rather proliferate here. The latter are quite small in number, and may actually well be cheaper to provide for by offering free travel. I don't doubt that the big move to contactless on buses wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well were it not for ENCTS and the other nations' equivalents.

Exactly. I've not come across any 'cash-only' pensioners volunteering to pay bus fares rather than use their pass.

 

[takno]

While I agree that it's possible to get done over either way, being paid in cash leaves no paper trail that can be used to try and get what you're owed.

The cash is entirely beside the point. It's the payslip that provides the paper-trail. In terms of demonstrating that a BACS payment happened 20 years ago, which would be the likely timescale you'd be looking for here, well, good luck with that.

 

[najaB]

The cash is entirely beside the point. It's the payslip that provides the paper-trail. In terms of demonstrating that a BACS payment happened 20 years ago, which would be the likely timescale you'd be looking for here, well, good luck with that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 99% of people would have more luck getting their bank account history than a payslip from 20 years ago - I know I definitely don't have any of my paper payslips from previous employers.

Plus, a payslip plus a bank account is a stronger paper trail than a payslip by itself.

 

[Jimini]

If takeaway suppliers are the type that actively prefer cash, then in addition to any opportunities for 'creative accounting' the 'quality' of their produce is often not of paramount importance.

HMRC do still investigate these types of businesses in detail, but the level of work involved and the number of takeways now established in the UK make it very difficult, and the takeaways know it, which brings us back to the ever increasing number on the high street.

This ^^ Our local Turkish restaurant on South Woodford High Road has changed names / owners / directors etc. around once every 18 months for the past few years. Always the same menu / staff though. 'Nuff said.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yep, thats pretty much right, Ive just returned from Norway and Sweden which are essentially cashless countries, very few ticket offices are now open and all reservations are done on line. At 71 I must admit I struggled making bookings, but apparently it wasnt just me, many Swedes I spoke too also have difficulties using the Swedish app and website, Throughout the week I did find ticket offices at Malmo and Stockholm, none at Gothenburg, and even those were only open for limited periods. I was using a mobile Interrail pass, but I guess Im a card zealot at heart, in that I mainly pay by card and rarely use cash, or at least that is unless I can find a ticket office that is open for me to pay by card. Surprisingly many guards also thought it wasnt a very good system and it had been applied too soon for the general travelling public.

At Brussel Zuid the supermarket has lots of card only self service tills. However, there was a long queue because over half the customers wanted to use the two manned tills and pay with cash.

Meanwhile my mate who is a guard in the north west of England just text to say he's taken 350 quid this afternoon of which 200 quid was cash.