Energy price rises and price cap discussion.

[johncrossley]

The interconnectors to Morocco and Iceland should also be prioritised.

 

[JamesT]

For Scotland, more transmission capacity would probably be at least as useful as a nuclear power station.

As we've seen in recent years, putting all your eggs in the wind power basket is the route to disaster. https://www.gov.scot/publications/annual-compendium-of-scottish-energy-statistics/ appears to be the most recent set of energy statistics dealing with just Scotland. dated 2020, there's some stuff in there dating back to 2018, but hopefully still fairly valid.

From a security of supply perspective, it is important to look at the supply capability of the system which can be relied on at times of high demand. As such, the analysis here excludes intermittent renewable generators including wind and solar.
Discounting these, Scotland had a maximum supply capacity of 10.0 GW available in 2019/20. This breaks down as 5.5 GW of non-intermittent generation in Scotland and 4.5 GW of import capability.

(Page 68)
1.1 GW of that capacity was Hunterston B, which has since closed.
So if the wind doesn't blow (and last year was a good example https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse...nditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html

SSE’s renewable assets produced 32% less power than expected between April and September as low speeds and dry conditions hit wind and hydro output.

) then what do you rely on?
I'm a little suspicious of https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/ as it doesn't have measurements in units, just percentages, but it's showing Scotland has been mostly reliant on gas generation for the last week. Presumably that's from the one big gas power station at Peterhead (1.2GW). Wouldn't it be better to have had another nuclear power plant that could have taken up that load and not used lots of expensive, dirty gas?

 

[najaB]

Presumably that's from the one big gas power station at Peterhead (1.2GW). Wouldn't it be better to have had another nuclear power plant that could have taken up that load and not used lots of expensive, dirty gas?

I think it would have been, yes. But, by the same token, transmission capacity works in both directions - if we supply renewables (wind, hydro, wave and tidal) south when we have lots (saving those south of the border from having to burn gas) then we can take advantage of their nuclear (or gas) when we don't have enough supply.

 

[JamesT]

I think it would have been, yes. But, by the same token, transmission capacity works in both directions - if we supply renewables (wind, hydro, wave and tidal) south when we have lots (saving those south of the border from having to burn gas) then we can take advantage of their nuclear (or gas) when we don't have enough supply.

True, interconnecting all the generation sources is the main benefit of the national grid. But it seem hypocritical to declare that no new nuclear power stations can be built, but are then quite happy to take advantage of somebody else's.

 

[Red Onion]

I do wonder if the option of Small Modular Reactors would suit Scotland, sited at the existing plants (and potentially even Dounreay). It would mean no change in use and the infrastructure and security are already in place.

Merely musing without too much thought but would it be palatable for Holyrood?

 

[najaB]

I do wonder if the option of Small Modular Reactors would suit Scotland, sited at the existing plants (and potentially even Dounreay). It would mean no change in use and the infrastructure and security are already in place.

Merely musing without too much thought but would it be palatable for Holyrood?

I think it would probably need to be put to a vote given that both parties forming the current government campaigned on a "no new nuclear plants" platform (that said, I would hazard a guess that it was a non-issue for most voters).

 

[jon0844]

After the £20 kettle 'top tip' from Boris, Grant Shapps has come out and recommended LED bulbs for pubs and schools etc. In my experience, almost all pubs, restaurants, shops, train stations, airports etc have got LED lights now and most have for some time - even many roads (Hertfordshire County Council was one such council, which is the county Grant is in, that changed all lights to LED over the last 5+ years), trains and buses that Grant should surely also know about, given his job?

And Edwina Currie thinks we should remember to turn appliances off when not in use.

With this advice, where's the crisis? Follow these tips and your bill won't go up at all!

I wonder what other amazing advice can be found out there?

 

[yorksrob]

There's another problem with the government revoking licenses. It would mean the UK Government could no longer be trusted to honour contracts, which would harm future investment in the UK.

I imagine the Government of the time could have included clauses to protect UK citizens from price shocks, but that would have resulted in the oil companies paying less for the licenses.

The windfall tax on the profits is probably the best the Government can do in the circumstances.

Then the windfall tax needs to be distributed as a reduction in bills. And needs to be imposed to such an extent that speculation generated profit is skimmed down to profit that would have been generated normally.

 

[najaB]

And needs to be imposed to such an extent that speculation generated profit is skimmed down to profit that would have been generated normally.

And what, exactly, is "speculation generated profit"? If a company sells its product on an open market for the going rate, how do you determine what "would have been generated normally"?

 

[STINT47]

I wonder what other amazing advice can be found out there?

More tips from the government

1. Get a second job, that works for MPs
2. Claim on expenses, that works for MPs
3. Get a party donor to help, that works for MPs
4. Only heat the outdoor swimming pool every other day
5. If all else fails take some funding out of your hedge fund.

 

[DelayRepay]

More tips from the government

1. Get a second job, that works for MPs
2. Claim on expenses, that works for MPs
3. Get a party donor to help, that works for MPs
4. Only heat the outdoor swimming pool every other day
5. If all else fails take some funding out of your hedge fund.

6. Save money on train tickets, and beat the strikes - use a government plane to fly to Cornwall instead.

 

[yorksrob]

And what, exactly, is "speculation generated profit"? If a company sells its product on an open market for the going rate, how do you determine what "would have been generated normally"?

Take the average over the previous six years before a global, geopolitical crisis caused a market bubble. Remove the difference and you have a reasonable price.

Better still, decide a management fee over the cost of production. Far better than this global "free market" tripe.

 

[Cowley]

6. Save money on train tickets, and beat the strikes - use a government plane to fly to Cornwall instead.

7) Only eat in expensive well heated restaurants.

 

[najaB]

Take the average over the previous six years before a global, geopolitical crisis caused a market bubble. Remove the difference and you have a reasonable price.

But that includes a two year period where prices were severely depressed due to lack of demand...

 

[tomuk]

After the £20 kettle 'top tip' from Boris, Grant Shapps has come out and recommended LED bulbs for pubs and schools etc. In my experience, almost all pubs, restaurants, shops, train stations, airports etc have got LED lights now and most have for some time - even many roads (Hertfordshire County Council was one such council, which is the county Grant is in, that changed all lights to LED over the last 5+ years), trains and buses that Grant should surely also know about, given his job?

You must only visit establishments who keep on top of these things. There are loads of buildings that still have non LED fixtures. There are loads of warehouse type buildings still using gas discharge lamps even though T5 fluorescents were all the rage 10 years ago. Lots of houses with halogen downlights. Outside my house the immediate road has all new aluminium poled led fixtures. Same with the main road. The intermediate road linking the two as the widest range of streetlights I've known a mixture of new and retrofit gas discharge and LED fittings mounted on various combinations of original and new steel and even old concrete pillars.

 

[yorksrob]

But that includes a two year period where prices were severely depressed due to lack of demand...

Then base it on the two years before 2020. Either way you cut out the speculation caused by the current global crisis.

 

[najaB]

Then base it on the two years before 2020. Either way you cut out the speculation caused by the current global crisis.

Oil prices were higher in 2014 than they are now...

 

[Ediswan]

There are loads of warehouse type buildings still using gas discharge lamps even though T5 fluorescents were all the rage 10 years ago.

Please be more specific. Fluorescent is gas discharge.

 

[yorksrob]

Oil prices were higher in 2014 than they are now...

Oil isn't causing a national emergency.

 

[tomuk]

Please be more specific. Fluorescent is gas discharge.

Metal Halide or even High Pressure Sodium.

 

[JamesT]

Oil isn't causing a national emergency.

In many markets around the world, (and previously in Western Europe and North America), the price of natural gas was (directly) linked to crude oil prices. Although we now directly trade gas prices, if we’re importing from regions that are still linked then those prices would have an effect.

 

[Howardh]

7) Only eat in expensive well heated restaurants.

Heat Out To Help Out?

Pity we can't because the restaurants are too cold and/or too expensive now.

 

[Ediswan]

Metal Halide or even High Pressure Sodium.

Those two and fluoresent are broadly similar in luminous efficacy (lumens per watt). Which is best is determined by other factors. Ten years ago, if anything, warehouses were converting away from fluorescent to metal halide or high pressure sodium.

Mainly, nobody ever developed a high power fluoresent lamp. With high ceilings, high pressure sodium or metal halide requires far fewer luminaires. In a commercial installation, the savings are considerble. By contrast, with low ceilings (office), fluorescent ruled the roost until LED came along.

 

[tomuk]

Those two and fluoresent are broadly similar in luminous efficacy (lumens per watt). Which is best is determined by other factors. Ten years ago, if anything, warehouses were converting away from fluorescent to metal halide or high pressure sodium.

Mainly, nobody ever developed a high power fluoresent lamp. With high ceilings, high pressure sodium or metal halide requires far fewer luminaires. In a commercial installation, the savings are considerble. By contrast, with low ceilings (office), fluorescent ruled the roost until LED came along.

I'm sorry but fluorescent high bays with T5 High Output were very popular to replace HPS and Metal Halide they offered similar light output, much better colour vision and the key for energy saving was they could be switched on and off with motion sensors. HPS and Metal Halide are slow to react to switching.

Here is a case study of a typical install

Trident Seafoods

Early in 2005, Trident Seafoods completed a site-wide lighting upgrade. Part of the project included a one-for-one replacement of over two hundred 400W metal halide fixtures with 4- lamp T5 high-output fixtures throughout the freezers, production areas, and dry goods storage.

Trident then went a step further and took advantage of the instant-on properties of fluorescent lighting by equipping a third of the new T5 fixtures with occupancy sensors that shut off half of the lamps in the fixture during unoccupied periods. Combined, these strategies contributed towards a 48% reduction in lighting power.

Added Benefits The existing fixtures were well into their service lives and therefore operating at substantially reduced light output. The new T5 fixtures roughly doubled the foot candle readings in most areas. Since T5 technology has relatively little lumen depreciation when compared to the old metal halide it replaces, these elevated light levels will persist.

 

[Ediswan]

I'm sorry but fluorescent high bays with T5 High Output were very popular to replace HPS and Metal Halide they offered similar light output, much better colour vision and the key for energy saving was they could be switched on and off with motion sensors. HPS and Metal Halide are slow to react to switching.

Now we are talking a whole different subject. It was lighting control systems that were (and still are) 'all the rage' for energy saving.

 

[yorksrob]

In many markets around the world, (and previously in Western Europe and North America), the price of natural gas was (directly) linked to crude oil prices. Although we now directly trade gas prices, if we’re importing from regions that are still linked then those prices would have an effect.

This is true, and linking the price of one fuel to another is one of the aspects of the energy market that needs reform.

The key point is to use the nations own natural resources to dilute the inflated prices for the proportion of gas that comes from abroad.

 

[tomuk]

Now we are talking a whole different subject. It was lighting control systems that were (and still are) 'all the rage' for energy saving.

Yes but you needed Fluorescent T5 HO (or LED as now) to do it.

 

[Dai Corner]

This is true, and linking the price of one fuel to another is one of the aspects of the energy market that needs reform.

The key point is to use the nations own natural resources to dilute the inflated prices for the proportion of gas that comes from abroad.

The fuel under discussion is electricity. Are you suggesting consumers should be charged different amounts depending on how their supply was generated? The suppliers do that already, of course, and charge a composite price to consumers.

 

[kristiang85]

7) Only eat in expensive well heated restaurants.

I remember when I was a student we had an expensive, unreliable token based heating system. The landlord never seemed to care that it would frequently fail. So we spent a lot of evenings in our local pub, with £1.50 pints, to save the hassle. I half tempted, as a 37yo professional adult, to start doing that again (assuming the pubs stay open)...

 

[duncanp]

I remember when I was a student we had an expensive, unreliable token based heating system. The landlord never seemed to care that it would frequently fail. So we spent a lot of evenings in our local pub, with £1.50 pints, to save the hassle. I half tempted, as a 37yo professional adult, to start doing that again (assuming the pubs stay open)...

If there are power cuts this winter, I shall just have to hope that my local pub, with 15 real ales and a log fire, has electricity when I don't.

Wouldn't it be a shame to be forced to spend the evening at the pub?