It’s because it benefits the leasing companies that the leasing companies won’t lower the leasing costs.
Yes, I am sure if third rail shoes could be added Southern would not mind them to replace class 313 units.
Platforms not long enough, plus 30 is not enough…
They will have [at least] 36 323s and the eight 769s.
It’s worth noting that ownership of this fleet has changed (to Akiem) since it was known they would go off lease with no future lease agreed. This was no doubt a known risk to Akiem and factored in accordingly. Also worth noting that leasing passenger trains in a different (and dysfunctional) market is not Akiem’s core business. They are predominantly leasing locomotives in mainland Europe, largely of the standard Prima, TRAXX and (now) Vectron types.
I find it quite likely the 379s will find a home. Great Northern almost seems like an obvious place since the 387s don't run at 110mph and can be used elsewhere in the Southern network where they are needed, and the 379s are much more appropriate for the long distance services GN operate. The 350/2s, however, are in a much more precarious position. Obviously it is technically possible to convert them to third rail or refurbish the interior, but the larger question is whether anyone would want to do it. Scotland needs more EMUs but is likely buying new, they wouldn't work perfectly on Northern, and other operators on the AC network don't really need them, so we'll just have to wait and see. Scrap is sadly possible, but crazy uses have happened before - like 458s replacing 442s on express services.
What platforms served by the 323s are too short for a 379?
I suspect that Great Northern now isn't going to happen, despite being the original destination identified for the units. The 387s are working fine on the route and they have brought in the extra c2c units to get the desired fleet of 35 units.
The fleet size of 21 360s is perfect for EMR and gave a 'blank canvas' on which to install a different interior. Meanwhile, the 379s were almost certainly destined for the Great Northern routes, to replace 387s and work alongside 365s. History can't be changed.
One of this forum’s favourite hobbies: playing trainspotter fantasy allocations.
The 387s are needed to partly replace 455s and 313s, there is only so much shortforming they can do with the 377s, it's the DfT that refuse to fund any costs associated with Electrostars playing musical chairs.
The only outs I can see are if GWR take on the 379s as part of their tender to cascade their 387s to GTR, or GTR take the 379s on for use on the Great Northern route, and then internally cascade the /1s and remaining /2 to Southern. I personally believe one of these will happen, it’s just a question of which.
GN requires 36 trains and there is only 30 379s. There was talk of using pairs of 717s on some services though so not impossible.
They also have the 6 ex-c2c 387/3s - those and the 379s will meet the requirements for Great Northern should it occur. The 29 387/1s can then move to Southern.
387s came ETCS ready (whereas 379s aren't), they wont be leaving the GN for that fact alone.
I wouldn’t rule it out just yet - let’s wait and see what happens…
I'd expect the 379s to be ETCS ready as well. The ETCS fitment on HeX 387s doesn't matter as Porterbrook have already gone with other equipment for the rest of the electrostars, including an option for other ROSCOs once its undergone approval on GTR 387s.
Will be replaced by the WMR 323s.
"ETCS ready" in what sense? None of the 387s were fitted until Bombardier did the HEx subfleet.
379s should have SDO, and if the 3 car 331s stay in the west and the 323 cascade from WMT is cancelled, then 30 would be enough. Given that Northern currently have 12 319s and 17 323s.
That is the plan right now anyway. I do know that plan will happen partly due to nothing else with a better capacity than a 323 being available. So 379s are never going to Northern.
The 35 387s does not cover the gaping and expanding hole the 455s and 313s are leaving. The 387s working fine on GN isn't the problem, it's the lack of
The 387s transferring south would just be a reversal of the same cascade they made a few years ago. Around that time it was cascade central in the south, and with no options for existing third rail units other than a handful of ex-460s, Networkers that are falling apart or making perfect replicas of 442s, a cascade like this will very likely be the way they replace the 313s and 455s. That's unless they want to steal more units from Southeastern but that's a debate for another day...
It depends on the source of the 387s - GWR taking on the 379s will provide 3 extra to help further cover the loss of Southern’s BR EMU fleet, whereas Great Northern taking them on will release 30 (29 /1s and the remaining GatEx /2). Either way, I think that the solution to GTR’s stock mess involves the 379s somehow.
I think it will take a lot more than forum chat to change the GTR stock plan now in the eyes of the DfT. As pointed out above, a handful of overcrowded trains is not going to lead to 30 or 33 extra units being brought in.
A voice of reason!
