Speed limiters on new build cars

[bspahh]

To be a dual carriage way and thus 70mph (unless otherwise signed) there must be a central reservation between the two carriage ways. The central reservation does not have to be barriered. If there is no central reservation then its a single carriage way (even if there are multiple lanes) and thus 60mph is the max speed (unless signed otherwise).

At least that is how I understand it.

Yes. Rule 136 of the Highway Code says

Dual carriageways​

A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways.

 

[Hans]

Would it...? I'd take the tinfoil hat off.

So the lower speed sections on the M1 for "clean air" are just my imagination?

 

[AlterEgo]

So the lower speed sections on the M1 for "clean air" are just my imagination?

No, the idea that the M1 will be a 20mph road is, though.

In any case, the idea of the zones is to reduce localised air pollution rather than affect climate change, although that will be a byproduct.

 

[Cowley]

Extreme examples of both can be found here: What makes a dual carriageway

The multi-lane single carriageway is the Aston Expressway. The single lane dual carriageway is a parallel pair of country lanes near Llywel in the Brecon Beacons.

Oh god I just got completely lost in that website.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oh god I just got completely lost in that website.

I can spend hours on SABRE reading arguments about what a TOTSO is. (I still have no idea)

 

[philthetube]

The ones who are going to drive a Range Rover down an urban road at 120mph and crash onto a railway line, to choose a random example, are also the ones who would immediately jailbreak/re-map any car with an electronic limiter.

Easily sorted, any vehicle driven at more than 80 mph on public roads will be confiscated and destroyed, Exceptions only when vehicle has been stolen, but not when by relatives, (yes, Mr. Chris Huhne) I am looking at you.

 

[Ediswan]

I can spend hours on SABRE reading arguments about what a TOTSO is. (I still have no idea)

There is also Pathetic Motorways

 

[MattA7]

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t all new cars now have to have speed limiters as standard (regardless to if it’s a ICE or EV) however for safety reasons the speed limiter can be turned off either by the settings or pressing the gas pedal hard.

I think that they use GPS telematics to determine the speed limit of the road that you are on.

 

[Bald Rick]

I can spend hours on SABRE reading arguments about what a TOTSO is. (I still have no idea)

Turn Off To Stay On.

it’s where you have to turn off, say, a motorway, (using a junction slip road) to stay on the motorway of the same designation.

the M42 heading northbound at J3A being a good example.

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Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t all new cars now have to have speed limiters as standard (regardless to if it’s a ICE or EV) however for safety reasons the speed limiter can be turned off either by the settings or pressing the gas pedal hard.

I think that they use GPS telematics to determine the speed limit of the road that you are on.

Not quite. All new models of cars launched since July are required to have the limiter. But almost all new cars currently are models launched Pre July.

 

[AM9]

Not quite. All new models of cars launched since July are required to have the limiter. But almost all new cars currently are models launched Pre July.

Given the probability that nearly all new car launches form now will be EVs, that means that for most of use, limiters will be standard very soon.

 

[Bald Rick]

Given the probability that nearly all new car launches form now will be EVs, that means that for most of use, limiters will be standard very soon.

I must admit that I don’t know what counts as a new model launch. Most models have an update each year, and of course the established models have a full relaunch every 4-6 years or so (we’re now on the Golf 8).

In any event I would expect the manufacturers to start adding the limiter at a certain point anyway, it will just be software and once written it will be easier to include than not.

 

[tomuk]

I must admit that I don’t know what counts as a new model launch. Most models have an update each year, and of course the established models have a full relaunch every 4-6 years or so (we’re now on the Golf 8).

In any event I would expect the manufacturers to start adding the limiter at a certain point anyway, it will just be software and once written it will be easier to include than not.

Its 2024 for existing models. I believe Dacia are replacing all their models as it was deemed too expensive to add this and other tech it to there current 'previous generation' Renault/Nissan based models.

 

[XAM2175]

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t all new cars now have to have speed limiters as standard (regardless to if it’s a ICE or EV) however for safety reasons the speed limiter can be turned off either by the settings or pressing the gas pedal hard.

It strikes me as being rather pointless to install a speed limited that can be circumvented by using the gas (sic) pedal in the manner the limiter is designed to restrict

 

[Bletchleyite]

It strikes me as being rather pointless to install a speed limited that can be circumvented by using the gas (sic) pedal in the manner the limiter is designed to restrict

Because there is the risk of it incorrectly applying a limit (e.g. when a 30 runs alongside a motorway) it has to be possible to override it quickly and easily, otherwise it would cause masses of rear ending accidents. The last thing you want is to be stranded in Lane 3 of a motorway at 20mph.

Only when GPS in consumer applications is accurate to the centimetre in all weather conditions will it be possible for it not to be overrideable.

 

[XAM2175]

Because there is the risk of it incorrectly applying a limit (e.g. when a 30 runs alongside a motorway) it has to be possible to override it quickly and easily, otherwise it would cause masses of rear ending accidents. The last thing you want is to be stranded in Lane 3 of a motorway at 20mph.

Only when GPS in consumer applications is accurate to the centimetre in all weather conditions will it be possible for it not to be overrideable.

The speed limiter required on new vehicles discussion relates to the vehicle's maximum speed only, does it not? That's certainly what was being talked about in the Park Royal incident thread that lead to this one being resurrected.

As you say, dynamic limiting based on the vehicle's position is currently so unreliable that I'm not aware of it being discussed in terms of anything other than "maybe some time in the future". It's certainly not a realistic proposition for implementation at the present time, as the poster to whom I replied appears to believe.

 

[JamesT]

The speed limiter required on new vehicles discussion relates to the vehicle's maximum speed only, does it not? That's certainly what was being talked about in the Park Royal incident thread that lead to this one being resurrected.

As you say, dynamic limiting based on the vehicle's position is currently so unreliable that I'm not aware of it being discussed in terms of anything other than "maybe some time in the future". It's certainly not a realistic proposition for implementation at the present time, as the poster to whom I replied appears to believe.

My understanding from articles such as https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/...ers-all-new-cars-know-rules-and-how-they-work is that the EU rules go further than just an overall limit.

Many cars in Europe and the UK already have speed limit assistance that relies on info from GPS mapping and road sign recognition, but systems currently have to be switched on by the driver. Under the new EU regulations ISA will be active by default, although drivers will, for now, be able to turn the systems off at the start of each journey.

Under the new EU General Safety Rule, manufacturers are able to choose how their systems notify drivers of a speed limit breach. Options include acoustic and vibrating warnings, haptic feedback via the accelerator pedal, and actively slowing the car down - one or all of these must be incorporated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The speed limiter required on new vehicles discussion relates to the vehicle's maximum speed only, does it not?

No. It is a dynamic limiter which uses a combination of GPS and forward facing cameras looking for limit signs (which are quite easy to OCR). Just limiting cars to 70 is a bit pointless as the main safety gains are not that (which smart motorways do very effectively anyway - it only now seems to be the M40 that has a prevailing 90ish) but rather making people stick to 20s and 30s when people are about.

Yes, there are very occasional cases of grossly excessive speed like Park Royal, but I'm not sure that wouldn't have been just as bad at 70.

As you say, dynamic limiting based on the vehicle's position is currently so unreliable that I'm not aware of it being discussed in terms of anything other than "maybe some time in the future". It's certainly not a realistic proposition for implementation at the present time, as the poster to whom I replied appears to believe.

It is exactly what is coming in, and it is so easily overrideable because it isn't totally accurate.

 

[XAM2175]

My understanding from articles such as https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/...ers-all-new-cars-know-rules-and-how-they-work is that the EU rules go further than just an overall limit.

It is exactly what is coming in, and it is so easily overrideable because it isn't totally accurate.

Thank you. I still note though that these systems are much closer to "annoying reminders that eventually insist you slow down a bit" than they are to HGV-style fixed limiters, which is what I understood the topic of thread to be.

 

[Bald Rick]

One thing that will need sorting, and there’s a lot of it about, is random ‘temporary’ speed restriction signs for roadworks that have been misadvertently left on site for overnight works. I saw several examples over the weekend where one sign had been left in the central reservation but there were no others anywhere.

 

[randompixel]

No. It is a dynamic limiter which uses a combination of GPS and forward facing cameras looking for limit signs (which are quite easy to OCR) ...

... except when they're used as stickers on the back of lorries and vans.

The government needs to ban those, or create a new "limited to x" shape/colour combination.

 

[Bald Rick]

There’s also the prospect of ‘guerilla’ speed limits, where locals who want traffic to slow down on their roads print off / pinch a speed board and pop it on a stick up the road.

I can also think of several places that deserve re-limiting upwards. (Progress Way / Squires Gate Lane I’m looking at you).

 

[Bletchleyite]

... except when they're used as stickers on the back of lorries and vans.

The government needs to ban those, or create a new "limited to x" shape/colour combination.

The legally mandated ones in some European countries don't have a red circle. It wouldn't be far fetched to pass a law that stated that displaying a black number on a white background in a red circle (or a derestriction sign) within eyesight of a road was an offence unless it was a speed limit approved by a Traffic Restriction Order.

Without this, we may e.g. get village vigilantes putting their own up.

The other way to avoid this would be if sign and GPS disagree then don't limit and flash up a warning.

 

[E27007]

My car "reads" road signs but, as it was originally registered in England, it interprets the black diagonal line on white as "60mph".

Helpful as here it doesn't mean "national speed limit", it means "end of speed limit".

It's fine when it's just a picture on my dashboard, not so good if my car chose to limit itself to 60.

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Smart motorways have existed in Germany for a long time and there are no issues.

The problem in the UK is that, as always, they try and do it on the cheap.

I am advised by a friend, Stef, half-German, half-Dutch, that motoring is taken more seriously than the UK, the German Mot equivalent is more demanding than the UK, and to pass the German driving test is costly requiring more advanced training than our UK test, the German driver is not only trained to drive to higher standards, the German car is scrutineered to higher standards of roadwortthyness , and the German moral code is to obey rules and not flount them.

 

[tomuk]

I am advised by a friend, Stef, half-German, half-Dutch, that motoring is taken more seriously than the UK, the German Mot equivalent is more demanding than the UK, and to pass the German driving test is costly requiring more advanced training than our UK test, the German driver is not only trained to drive to higher standards, the German car is scrutineered to higher standards of roadwortthyness , and the German moral code is to obey rules and not flount them.

And despite all of that superiority they still have more road fatalities than we do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And despite all of that superiority they still have more road fatalities than we do.

One major issue with road safety in Germany is the speed differentials on the Autobahnen which mean far more severe collisions than in countries with 110 (70mph) or 130km/h (80mph) limits. They really do need to introduce limits for both environmental and safety reasons, but it is a massive political hot potato probably at a similar level to messing too much with the NHS over here.

 

[gavinro]

Depends what circles you're in

If it matters which circles you're in, then you made their point that it's not "ANY"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2022 ==

my limiter is a pain (Thanks Peugeot). You have to click the thing 10 times to change 10mph. Why. Are there any 35mph speed limits? It is an old car tho. one click for each 10 mph would do it.

I liked the limiters on my Peugeots and it's a shame I don't have one on my current Toyota.

_Hold_ the up/down and your Pug should move in 5mph increments if it's like my 208 and 308 were.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My Kuga works like that too but I would prefer it to just be 10mph jumps.

 

[Ken H]

If it matters which circles you're in, then you made their point that it's not "ANY"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2022 ==


I liked the limiters on my Peugeots and it's a shame I don't have one on my current Toyota.

_Hold_ the up/down and your Pug should move in 5mph increments if it's like my 208 and 308 were.

Thanks. I will try that.

 

[RailWonderer]

Autobahns in Germany are like guns in America. A sacrosanct tradition, that cannot be touched.

One major issue with road safety in Germany is the speed differentials on the Autobahnen which mean far more severe collisions than in countries with 110 (70mph) or 130km/h (80mph) limits. They really do need to introduce limits for both environmental and safety reasons, but it is a massive political hot potato probably at a similar level to messing too much with the NHS over here.

 

[typefish]

One major issue with road safety in Germany is the speed differentials on the Autobahnen which mean far more severe collisions than in countries with 110 (70mph) or 130km/h (80mph) limits. They really do need to introduce limits for both environmental and safety reasons, but it is a massive political hot potato probably at a similar level to messing too much with the NHS over here.

On the other hand I find driving on Autobahnen far safer than on UK motorways, therefore perhaps derestriction should come back to the UK.

Might even be a traffic driver to the railways!