Best UK Train Manufacturer?

[LNW-GW Joint]

Aside from intercity, I wonder if some of the regional TOCs operating clapped out Sprinters have taken note of the 755's? They're a very good replacement for a lot of that old rubbish, and able to make use of electrification where it exists too.

TfW went with CAF and recycled Mk4s for their long-distance stuff (while ordering Stadler for Metro and local services).
Northern will probably go with more CAF units (they wouldn't want yet another type).

 

[Sorcerer]

Funny you should mention the TMST I seem to recall the press launch was delayed by 2 hours due to technical issues. It was very embarrassing for Eurostar at the time. There were quite a few teething issues with it.

Were there any systematic issues with the fleet beyond the initial teething troubles which I'm somewhat willing to overlook? I don't count the breakdowns in the Channel Tunnel during the 2009-2010 snowfall because that wasn't really a reliability issue more so that it was an issue with the design meeting conditions it wasn't built for (snow of such quantities isn't really that common in the oceanic climates they mostly operate in, and I doubt even in snowy conditions that Alstom could've anticipated the snow melting due to warmer air inside the tunnel).

There's no demand for such a train.
GWR and LNER had to take the government ordered-80x; TPE, EMR and Avanti have gone the same way in slightly modified form.
HS2 will take the Hitachi-Alstom HS design.
That sorts out inter-city stock for a generation.
There isn't anybody else, unless a new open access operator starts up.
Maybe XC at some point? Scotrail's HST replacement? SWR to Salisbury and beyond?
It would probably depend on what happens to the Voyager/Meridian fleets.

I think if ScotRail had to opt to purchase new trains for their intercity fleet then they would likely opt for another of the 80x series simply because it's a proven design that you can order off the shelf. That is unless there are conditions unique to their network that Hitachi somehow couldn't meet. As for SWR to Salisbury my first instinct would be that they just ordered more Aventras. As the operator of some of the busiest commuter networks in the country they would probably want a train they can also use for stopping services around London. I could be wrong but I trust more knowledge forum members will correct me on that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Aventra hasn't got a diesel/bi-mode option.
The new Alstom might offer something different, of course.
Stadler 755s could be ordered off the shelf, but Scotland has a good Hitachi maintenance set up.

Regarding manufacturers, I notice the Voyager/Meridian fleets did not get a mention.
Whatever people think about them they have been reliable and have a high performance.
They were built by the "old" Bombardier before they acquired Adtranz.
The same factory in Brugge (now part of Alstom of course) also built the Eurotunnel shuttle stock and units for DLR.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I voted for bombardier because I think that the 377/375 are quite a decent train and a reasonably good replacement for the old slammers in Kent and Sussex.

 

[supervc-10]

As for SWR to Salisbury my first instinct would be that they just ordered more Aventras. As the operator of some of the busiest commuter networks in the country they would probably want a train they can also use for stopping services around London. I could be wrong but I trust more knowledge forum members will correct me on that.

They'd have to be very different Aventras - the current ones wouldn't get very close to Salisbury without more 3rd rail! They're also a totally different type of train to what the Salisbury line needs. Some bi-mode 444s would be ideal IMO, but that's getting off topic. Although I'm sure a bi-mode Desiro unit would be pretty solid and be a great train in the long run! Siemens stuff is great.

 

[DanNCL]

The Aventra hasn't got a diesel/bi-mode option.
The new Alstom might offer something different, of course.

A bi-mode Aventra (and an Aventra with single leaf end doors) is available and has been for a few years, it just hasn’t been ordered by anyone.

 

[Sorcerer]

There is also an agreement for 10 Aventra trains to be constructed using hydrogen power which would enable them to travel on non-electrified routes.

EVERSHOLT Rail has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Alstom, aimed at delivering Britain’s first brand-new hydrogen train fleet.

The rolling stock leasing company and Alstom have agreed to work together to share technical and commercial information required for Alstom to design, build, commission and support a fleet of 10 three-car hydrogen multiple units (HMUs).

Alstom told IRJ that details regarding delivery will be confirmed should the agreement be turned into a firm contract.

This might not be enough to cover the route to Salisbury but the option of Aventras running on non-electric power is still very much a possibility.

 

[fgwrich]

There is also an agreement for 10 Aventra trains to be constructed using hydrogen power which would enable them to travel on non-electrified routes.



This might not be enough to cover the route to Salisbury but the option of Aventras running on non-electric power is still very much a possibility.

But, given the current relationship between SWR and Alstom over it's very long delayed 701s, I cant see SWR (and Rock Rail) wanting to throw more money towards Alstom for an unbuilt / untested / unproven train.

 

[Sorcerer]

But, given the current relationship between SWR and Alstom over it's very long delayed 701s, I cant see SWR (and Rock Rail) wanting to throw more money towards Alstom for an unbuilt / untested / unproven train.

Perhaps not, but the technology is at least there if anyone wants to give it a go. Of course that said I have mentioned operators wanting to use proven designs hence the success of Hitachi's A-Train units, so ultimately I think it will likely be years before operators take interest in hydrogen powered Aventras. The fact there is also an option for bi-mode Aventras probably doesn't help the case seeing as bi-mode trains are already a proven technology for operators wanting to run on electric and non-electric routes.

 

[QSK19]

There is also an agreement for 10 Aventra trains to be constructed using hydrogen power which would enable them to travel on non-electrified routes.

This makes me think of the East Midlands franchise commitment to trial hydrogen trains on the MML. Obviously wasn’t going to come to fruition - emergency measures effectively ending franchising aside, I couldn’t imagine any of those Aventras running MML IC services!

 

[Class360/1]

I voted Siemens as al their trains are very reliable (if they are properly maintained).

Just look at the 700’s. One of the only new trains that are super reliable.

In modern railways (magazine)the class 707’s were excluded from several reliability tables because they are so reliable; no matter how cheap they are specified by the DfT.

 

[4BEP]

I would go for Jaegendorfer, almost silentmotors and excellent slow running

 

[Strathclyder]

Siemens. My vote is based largely off of the 380s, which, after their rocky commissioning phase (though nothing like the 334s), have settled down to be reliable, efficient members of the ScotRail fleet. Not my personal favourite ScR MUs, but I can concede that they get the job done and get it done with the minimum of fuss.

 

[GEC465]

Stadler. The UK FLIRTs are rapidly becoming reliable and fully accessible with low level boarding

 

[trebor79]

Stadler. The UK FLIRTs are rapidly becoming reliable and fully accessible with low level boarding

Very nice travelling environment and comfortable too. I just wish they'd stop locking the internal doors open on the 745s, they are much cosier with them shut, almost like being in a compartment.

 

[Towers]

You've forgotten to put an option for BREL!

I'm very familiar with a particular breed of Hitachi effort. I voted Siemens.

 

[superkev]

To me when every bus has a ramp, many powered, Stradlers level boarding trains have rendered all others obsolete.
K

 

[py_megapixel]

To me when every bus has a ramp, many powered, Stradlers level boarding trains have rendered all others obsolete.
K

Siemens, Alstom, CAF and others also build low-floor trains with sliding steps. But seemingly we're just too cheap to spec them in this country.

 

[BenS123]

I voted Siemens as they hold the record for some of the most reliable trains around, this month's Modern Railways places the Class 717 at first place for reliability

 

[Herefordian]

Swindon Works.

 

[357]

Invited for Stadler for their current offerings.

I love desiros and they are great trains, but the more modern variants such as 700s still have software issues many years after introduction, including the issue that the only way to detrain is to have the driver close the doors and then have someone walk through the train.

Even bombardier managed to solve this issue in 2010 with the S stock!

 

[TRAX]

The quality of every train equals the way the customer specified it.
There’s rubbish and fabulous trains with every manufacturer.

 

[CDM Transport]

Siemens

 

[37114]

English Electric. Class 20s and 37s still in daily use and examples like 37116 and 37175 are pretty much unmodified since they left the factory I.e. original design of power unit and generator. None of the stuff produced today will still be going in original form in 60 years time.

 

[43096]

None of the stuff produced today will still be going in original form in 60 years time.

I’d bet that that phrase was said back in 1962, too.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Regarding the topic title 'Best UK Train Manufacturer' I'm not really sure there is a UK Manufacturer anymore - Bombardier/Alstom is probably the closest though so that's who I voted for.

I'd consider the Pendolino the exception to prove the rule, looking at the other things Alstom has produced.

It's not like other manufacturers can't build tilting stock. We just haven't seen any of it in this country because there is only a very limited scope to use the tilting capability.

The Pendolino isn't the only tilting stock in service in this country - the Avanti Super Voyagers tilt and were built by Bombardier. Of the two types, I actually think the Super Voyager is the superior design (because the Pendolino windows are pathetically narrow slits) but unfortunately they were built for the underinvested routes and hence are diesel powered and too short. Such a shame we didn't get 9-car and 11-car EMU versions of the Super Voyagers instead of the Pendolinos.

while I do quite like the 397 and 80x, I'd take a GA IC FLIRT any day, it's just a better quality product with a far better ride, plus the game-changer of level boarding. And I'm not sure how the very comfortable FISA LEAN isn't an InterCity seat, it's far better than the Sophia as in 397s and 80x.

There are two different things here, there is the train and there is the seat. The Fanisa Sophia is not (or shouldn't be seen as) an InterCity seat, but the class 397s and 80x could still be an InterCity train design - they just need the seats replaced. I've not used them much, but I think with decent seats (and ideally plug doors, but it's presumably too late for that now) the 9-car 80x could be a good InterCity train. I've yet to go on a 397, but again the design in general should not be judged solely on the seats (although their suitability for long-distance services in their current guise certainly should - we need GBR to start the fightback against awful seats promissed in the Williams-Shapps plan ASAP).

There's no demand for such a train.
GWR and LNER had to take the government ordered-80x; TPE, EMR and Avanti have gone the same way in slightly modified form.
HS2 will take the Hitachi-Alstom HS design.
That sorts out inter-city stock for a generation.
There isn't anybody else, unless a new open access operator starts up.
Maybe XC at some point? Scotrail's HST replacement? SWR to Salisbury and beyond?
It would probably depend on what happens to the Voyager/Meridian fleets.

The 222s will be due for replacement around 2040, XC, GWR and ScotRail will all need something to replace IC125s. The nearly 200 (it could be 200 if the diesel engines from the 801s were removed and repurposed) Hitachi InterCity bi-modes already ordered should be plenty if sense finally prevails and the mainlines are scheduled for electrification - units (or the diesel engines from under them) from routes nearest the front of the queue for wires (eg. Oxford, Bristol and Swansea) could be cascaded to XC with new electric-only 80x built for the likes of GWR. Either way there will be some more InterCity stock needed, but please god no more diesel engines for InterCity stock.

I think if ScotRail had to opt to purchase new trains for their intercity fleet then they would likely opt for another of the 80x series simply because it's a proven design that you can order off the shelf. That is unless there are conditions unique to their network that Hitachi somehow couldn't meet.

Hopefully ScotRail will order straight EMUs for that purpose (perhaps with temporary batteries if they want to retire the IC125s before Aberdeen-Inverness is fully wired and want to maintain full InterCity stock throughout the transition rather than stepping down to regional express units for a bit). Also, one hopes that as with the EGIP units (Hitachi AT-200) ScotRail would insist on plug doors for any future 80x for ScotRail rather than the sliding type used on the existing 80x which give a cheap-and-nasty impression.

As for SWR to Salisbury my first instinct would be that they just ordered more Aventras. As the operator of some of the busiest commuter networks in the country they would probably want a train they can also use for stopping services around London. I could be wrong but I trust more knowledge forum members will correct me on that.

The Aventra hasn't got a diesel/bi-mode option.
The new Alstom might offer something different, of course.

Bombardier offered bi-mode Aventras for the MML but EMR went with the class 810s from Hitachi instead.

I think it will likely be years before operators take interest in hydrogen powered Aventras. The fact there is also an option for bi-mode Aventras probably doesn't help the case seeing as bi-mode trains are already a proven technology for operators wanting to run on electric and non-electric routes.

This makes me think of the East Midlands franchise commitment to trial hydrogen trains on the MML. Obviously wasn’t going to come to fruition - emergency measures effectively ending franchising aside, I couldn’t imagine any of those Aventras running MML IC services!

Would Melton Mowbray - Derby count as being 'the MML' sufficiently to cover that commitment to trial hydrogen units I wonder? That said, the 10 hydrogen Aventras proposed as a speculative build have a fatal flaw if you ask me in that they are not multi-mode units. Apparently, no pantograph is planned meaning they would be 'burning' hydrogen under the wires. The only routes where Network Rail's TDNS recommended hydrogen units without running under the wires for miles and miles were some GA services out of Norwich.

Very nice travelling environment and comfortable too. I just wish they'd stop locking the internal doors open on the 745s, they are much cosier with them shut, almost like being in a compartment.

Do they even have internal doors? If so where and how many?

 

[WarrenTManager]

Siemens by a country mile. The 707 is a fantastic unit.

but where are Vivarail in the voting list?

 

[MattRat]

I gave my vote to Stadler. Very premium units, all of them. Also they seem aware of how railways work, unlike Desiro with their heavy and fuel hungry (in case of DMUs) units. I do however respect CAF for their cheap units. They're built to a price, but so were the Pacers and Sprinters, and I'd say their units are a improvement on most of those units, bar maybe any well kept 158/9.

 

[NewClee153]

From what I’ve used and living on the Stour Valley line, I have to vote for Siemens, their class 185s, 350s and 380s are solid, reliable trains

I haven’t ridden anything stadler have built, but I’ve heard extremely good things, so I’m looking forward to trying out the 745/755s

The worst, for me, by far is CAF. I understand their recent units have been cheaply built, but comfort is the minimum I ask for

 

[coppercapped]

Wholly British owned and based in Burton, builds interesting and bespoke kit: it just has to be Clayton Equipment. See its website at https://claytonequipment.co.uk/