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Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

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Bletchleyite

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I disagree. I think they're much more comfortable and less claustrophobic with more legroom in standard and much fresher and more efficient air conditioning.

Each to their own though!

I've not used one yet, but I'm astonished to see someone claiming a 222 with its single-piece seating to be less claustrophobic! :)

Problem is theres nothing out there that beats a mk3, and there doesnt seem to be anything on the horizon that will. The next IEPs will come out to replace the voyagers soon, with smaller windows, airline seats, poor seat cushioning etc etc. Its so blaringly obvious that we need to go back to traditional values to improve the travelling experience.

IETs are a far, far better travelling experience than any 22x in my view. Yes, even with the lousy seats, but the Avanti ones will have the same seats as the Pendolino refurb. I'm not sure how a Mk3 is better than an IET as built, and you can't really compare retrofit seats because you could retrofit those to the IET as well.
 
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bengley

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I've not used one yet, but I'm astonished to see someone claiming a 222 with its single-piece seating to be less claustrophobic! :)



IETs are a far, far better travelling experience than any 22x in my view. Yes, even with the lousy seats, but the Avanti ones will have the same seats as the Pendolino refurb. I'm not sure how a Mk3 is better than an IET as built, and you can't really compare retrofit seats because you could retrofit those to the IET as well.
Indeed, I've always loathed those bench seats on the 222s
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss Avanti rolling stock updates.

To discuss any other rolling stock, rolling stock preferences, or any other topic, please create a new thread (if there isn't one already).
 

Liam L

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I take it 104 is now done?

If so, that’s 10 done, and nearly 20% of the refurb programme complete!

I saw a post on Facebook group last night, it’s awaiting checks from Angel Trains and Alstom etc

(Ignore me, it was posted in this thread lol)
 

Bletchleyite

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It’s yet another service with a diesel train doing a fully electrified route, as if the use on Scotlands wasn’t bad enough.

Once again:

It's being done so crew competency isn't lost.

If it wasn't done, you'd have mass cancellations on Voyager services once things ramp back up while training was done.

EMUs are on order to replace Voyagers under the wires. What more do you want them to do?

I'm a very outspoken critic of Avanti as you well know, having called them (and I stand by it) things like "lackadaisical" and "dross". But this does make sense.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Once again:

It's being done so crew competency isn't lost.

If it wasn't done, you'd have mass cancellations on Voyager services once things ramp back up while training was done.

EMUs are on order to replace Voyagers under the wires. What more do you want them to do?

I'm a very outspoken critic of Avanti as you well know, having called them (and I stand by it) things like "lackadaisical" and "dross". But this does make sense.
You don’t need to outline it in bold, I am not quite senile enough to need patronising just yet. I saw your point and appreciate that it’s all they can do. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous what it’s come to.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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It's no more ridiculous than running them to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Yes, but it’s more understandable when you consider how intensely worked the 390s are and that’s the reason they Voyagers that route - not enough 390s. This time, a pair of Voyagers is booked on an electrified route while the electric trains sit around unused. Unfortunately made necessary due to the sugar-show they’ve made of their operations lately.
 

py_megapixel

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I assume the reason they're on Manchester runs instead of Birmingham (which would mean less diesel under the wires) is simply that New Street already has more than enough idling Voyagers wrecking the already-poor underground air quality, so adding another pair each hour - which turn around there and so sit in the station for an extended period - would be a bad idea? Or is there some other reason?

Edit: Just realised there are actually practically no Birmingham terminators in the timetable at the moment, so that would actually make the Manchester runs the shortest ones!
 

Bald Rick

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Is it 70 though, considering 6tph to Manchester and Birmingham combined has become 2tph?

yes. Typically 40 Class 390s in service each day. Plus the 221s.

surprised you hadn’t done your research given that you were confidently quoting ‘a quarter’.
 

MCR247

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Half of them today (strike day), 70% of them on a ‘normal’ day in the much reduced timetable.
Is it 70 though, considering 6tph to Manchester and Birmingham combined has become 2tph?
I mean if he has said it’s 70 then I think it’s likely it is 70 I can’t see him just making it up or telling lies. I think your point should instead be why is it that high with such a reduced timetable - to which the likely answer is that as the reduced timetable is a reduced down version of the full timetable (rather than a timetable written for the specific purpose) the diagrams are likely to be less efficient than before. If an arriving set at Euston usually formed a return working say 40 mins later but now the next departure isn’t for 1h10 then it’s gotta wait I suppose
 

LYuen

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Once again:

It's being done so crew competency isn't lost.

If it wasn't done, you'd have mass cancellations on Voyager services once things ramp back up while training was done.

EMUs are on order to replace Voyagers under the wires. What more do you want them to do?

I'm a very outspoken critic of Avanti as you well know, having called them (and I stand by it) things like "lackadaisical" and "dross". But this does make sense.
It is quite optimistic to assume the staffing issue would be resolved before the arrival of the Hitachi sets.
Or maybe they have factored in that those sets would be delayed.
 

Bald Rick

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It is quite optimistic to assume the staffing issue would be resolved before the arrival of the Hitachi sets.
Or maybe they have factored in that those sets would be delayed.

it’s the training that’s the issue, not the staffing.
 

Bletchleyite

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Just get yourself on a refurbished Pendo, and you'll find out pdq.

Not yet managed to track one down, sadly, and the unreliabilty of Avanti (which means it isn't viable to just go to say Birmingham or Manchester and just get on the first one that shows up to Stockport or International) isn't helping.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's no more ridiculous than running them to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
I'm reminded that when Virgin removed Blackpool from their map (around 2000), the HSTs that worked the service had an unusual round trip to Manchester instead.
There have to be some Voyager diagrams as you say.
Chester/North Wales folk are entitled to be miffed that their trains are being sent to Manchester instead.
Whether the Manchester trip could be covered by a 390 I don't know.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm reminded that when Virgin removed Blackpool from their map (around 2000), the HSTs that worked the service had an unusual round trip to Manchester instead.
There have to be some Voyager diagrams as you say.
Chester/North Wales folk are entitled to be miffed that their trains are being sent to Manchester instead.
Whether the Manchester trip could be covered by a 390 I don't know.

They aren't "their trains". TfW is "their" TOC other than Chester. Avanti is an English operator of "international trains".

In any case nobody is happy with what has happened with Avanti. Manchester isn't either, and I'm sure most Manchester users wish you'd take "your" rubbishy Voyagers back! :)

Unusually, and maybe it's why our resident Scouser hasn't complained, Liverpool has not lost out at all, retaining its full 1tph!
 

ValleyLines142

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Neither is out yet. 119 is currently in - and 121 is still unrefurbished.
I know, was just wondering whether anybody knew if the plan was to keep their liveries.

Also thought somebody said 121 is next in - but now realise it was on a Glasgow diagram the other day.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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They aren't "their trains". TfW is "their" TOC other than Chester. Avanti is an English operator of "international trains".
You know that's nonsense.
Avanti is the intercity TOC for North Wales in the same way GWR is for South Wales - for London services.
Since Virgin days there have been 10 Voyagers dedicated to Chester/North Wales services, and another 10 for (originally XC) Birmingham/Scotland.
In the opposite sense TfW are the TOC for much of Cheshire, Shropshire and the Marches.
 

palmersears

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Apologies if this has been covered already, but I was on 390157 this morning for the first time post-refurb, from Manchester to Euston, and it felt like the phone signal and mobile data is now significantly worse than before? I know it has never been great on a 390, but even as we got south of Watford Junction it was virtually non-existant, when previously it would be 4/5G all the way.

Wouldn't mind, but the onboard Wifi doesn't allow Spotify or BBC Sounds to access it, so I couldn't really listen to any of my music.

The seats are also terrible as well *runs for cover*
 

py_megapixel

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Wouldn't mind, but the onboard Wifi doesn't allow Spotify or BBC Sounds to access it, so I couldn't really listen to any of my music.
This is a bugbear of mine. Onboard WiFi in many other countries works perfectly well without the seeming need to blacklist anything that uses more bandwidth than Teletext. By all means have a system which imposes limits if the network gets busy enough to be an issue, but if there are only a few WiFi users in the coach, would it really cause that much harm to let them stream from Spotify?
 
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