Trolley service to go on EC??

[dk1]

As long as there is a buffet/shop where i can get hot food & decent coffee then im happy. As i never have a seat reservation i aim for that coach with East Coast anyway.

 

[Mainliner]

...If I had to make a choice, it would be to lose the trolley and keep the cafebar. And when I went on EC this weekend, it was open until about 45-50 minutes before arrival. What was odd is that on both trips, the first announcement to say about it closing WAS to say it had closed. I'm surprised they don't announce it will be closing in 10-15 minutes to encourage those who are umming and ahhing about getting something to get off their backsides!

Yes, that happens quite often, and to me it says "We're not bothered that you might have wanted to buy something - we really don't want to be busy while we are trying to shut down."

 

[scotsman]

Yes, that happens quite often, and to me it says "We're not bothered that you might have wanted to buy something - we really don't want to be busy while we are trying to shut down."

Yeah, well these guys often have to be off at a certain stop and when they're stock taking and cashing up the last thing you want is pax interrupting that since everything then has to be changed.

 

[Mainliner]

Yeah, well these guys often have to be off at a certain stop and when they're stock taking and cashing up the last thing you want is pax interrupting that since everything then has to be changed.

Paying customers an interruption?! I rest my case!

(Just make the announcement early, and state the closing time as the time when stock taking/cashing up etc needs to start...)

 

[jon0844]

The thing is, I'm sure the cafebar closed after the last stop before King's Cross, so the crew would be on until KGX anyway. I know they need time to cash up, but they won't be in that much of a rush.

I would announce 15-30 minutes before and make it clear when the shop will close. Maybe set that time five minutes early to allow time to serve the final customers, while putting off anyone who now thinks it is closed from walking down.

 

[dk1]

Yes, that happens quite often, and to me it says "We're not bothered that you might have wanted to buy something - we really don't want to be busy while we are trying to shut down."

To be honest isnt that the same for anyone? You've worked a 9hr day, & you want to get finished asap. If somebody on board hasnt sorted themselves out by this late in the journey that they need substanance then too bad. Cash up & go. As Precious in 'Come fly with me' would say "CLOSED".

 

[silentone]

If the set is a de-stock at night it's better to close and get it all packed up ready to get taken off. That can take some time. The same applies if there is excess stock, or a full stock count has to be done.

Although the time mentioned they could have said 10-15mins. 15mins before the terminating station is probably too little time for what does have to be done.

 

[jon0844]

They can close at the exact same time as they do now, but simply announce that it will be closing soon (or an exact time). Announcing it has now closed is pretty final, even if it is accurate!

 

[Anvil1984]

Depends on company directive, back on XC in the final throes of the shop we were banned from advising the shop would be closing / is closed as it was negative and were threatened with development plans / disciplinary action if we said it. Thats how daft management can be

 

[Tom B]

Yeah, well these guys often have to be off at a certain stop and when they're stock taking and cashing up the last thing you want is pax interrupting that since everything then has to be changed.

Sorry, but have you been taking lessons from Basil Fawlty?! "Honestly, you keep interrupting me and giving me money, when I'm trying to run a buffet here!"

 

[cuccir]

They can close at the exact same time as they do now, but simply announce that it will be closing soon (or an exact time). Announcing it has now closed is pretty final, even if it is accurate!

In my experience it's fairly common to hear a 'the cafe bar will be closing in 15 minutes' or 'the cafe bar will be closing on departure from x', so I think this is done more often than not.

Depends on company directive, back on XC in the final throes of the shop we were banned from advising the shop would be closing / is closed as it was negative and were threatened with development plans / disciplinary action if we said it. Thats how daft management can be

You see I just come around to liking Cross Country and then I hear something like this...

 

[wellhouse]

The EC Business Case for introducing complementary meals in First Class is based on research indicating a significant number of passengers will upgrade from Standard to First, with additional fares revenue more than covering the catering costs.

Now as well as the carrot of free meals in First, it seems EC are applying the stick of reduced catering provision for Standard Class passengers by removing the trolley service.

 

[tbtc]

Can you imagine if pubs stopped serving drinks with fifteen minutes to go until "closing time"?

Passengers are just an inconvenience to some staff on the railways...
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Montrose you say - Clearly the governmenthealth campaigns are working - It used to be Ferryhill!

In fairness, if I'd been cooped up in the North Sea for a long time I'd probably drink warm cans of McEwans at that pace

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Can you imagine if pubs stopped serving drinks with fifteen minutes to go until "closing time"?

Passengers are just an inconvenience to some staff on the railways...

Well, in effect they do - hence the concept of drinking-up time.

 

[jon0844]

I think there's scope for EC to make more money on weekends with a different level of first class upgrade and improved catering.

I can only base this assumption on the old Leisure Select service on Eurostar, so I am sure they've done more research than me, but if they can get a lot more people in first on a weekend - then serve more than just tea and coffee (and shortbread biscuits etc) - they could make quite a bit. The key would be to offering this as an upgrade you can do on the spur of the moment, like Weekend First, not booking a FC ticket in advance.

 

[silentone]

I haven't seen any recent PA Scripts but I'm pretty sure EC onboard staff are not meant to announce the bar is closing in X amount of minutes as it does create a negative impression. I'd have to check but the last time I read one I'm sure it was meant to be a simple closed announcement at a sensible time before arrival.

 

[Failed Unit]

The EC Business Case for introducing complementary meals in First Class is based on research indicating a significant number of passengers will upgrade from Standard to First, with additional fares revenue more than covering the catering costs.

Now as well as the carrot of free meals in First, it seems EC are applying the stick of reduced catering provision for Standard Class passengers by removing the trolley service.

From my understanding the report is taken out of context. Some less busy trains will have either a trolley OR a cafe bar but not both. Some will have both, so no change from today - but some people may not realise that us the case. The timetable already has highlighted the trains which won't have both trolley and cafe bar.

You cant get the decent coffee on the trolley, just instant so I would rather have the cafe bar myself as I like a toastie as well.

 

[scotsman]

From my understanding the report is taken out of context. Some less busy trains will have either a trolley OR a cafe bar but not both. Some will have both, so no change from today - but some people may not realise that us the case. The timetable already has highlighted the trains which won't have both trolley and cafe bar.

You cant get the decent coffee on the trolley, just instant so I would rather have the cafe bar myself as I like a toastie as well.

Good. Hopefully the trolley will be off at peak times so people can get down the train, and the staff can concentrate on meals

 

[gordonthemoron]

@scotsman, that's far too sensible an idea

 

[tbtc]

Good. Hopefully the trolley will be off at peak times so people can get down the train, and the staff can concentrate on meals

Sounds nice, but you're really saying they should only provide a trolley on the emptier services, and not bother trying to reach the majority of passengers on the busiest services (if the aisles are too busy to push a trolley down then they will probably be too busy for most passengers to squeeze between all the people/suitcases to walk down a few coaches to/from the buffet)...

Not bothering to cater for busy times sounds a short-term approach, sorry
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Well, in effect they do - hence the concept of drinking-up time.

Pub staff don't take the attitude that "my shift finishes at eleven, so I'll stop serving drinks at half ten and then take a long time to wash glasses".

I've been on a few ECML trains where the announcement that the buffet is closing shortly after Newcastle northbound (despite it being over an hour to Edinburgh).

TBH you can't blame passengers for bringing food/drinks with them since buffet opening times are this erratic, meaning less demand for buffets, meaning replacement with a trolley...

 

[Capybara]

Sounds nice, but you're really saying they should only provide a trolley on the emptier services, and not bother trying to reach the majority of passengers on the busiest services (if the aisles are too busy to push a trolley down then they will probably be too busy for most passengers to squeeze between all the people/suitcases to walk down a few coaches to/from the buffet)...

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Not really. The trolley blocks the aisle completely and can be a real nuisance. The chances are you only see it once in a journey anyway. Get rid, have a system for the disabled and a standard buffet for the rest.

 

[tbtc]

Not really. The trolley blocks the aisle completely and can be a real nuisance. The chances are you only see it once in a journey anyway

...but if it only passes through the train once on a journey then it can't be blocking up the aisle for much of the journey?

 

[Failed Unit]

...but if it only passes through the train once on a journey then it can't be blocking up the aisle for much of the journey?

It is quite a pain in the rear when it gets to coach F with passengers going to the buffet needing to battle past it on the way there and back

 

[silentone]

The trolley is really only a nuisance for those who are impatient. Most staff will let you past at the first possible opportunity.

The staff on the trolley are also a point of contact for information about the journey, Mrs Elderly Lady sat in Coach B might not want to struggle all the way to the Bar to buy a tea and find out the arrival time into Peterborough.

While the 'erratic' opening/closing times of the buffet may be a factor in people bringing their own it is not the main reason. Competition from station outlets and the affordability are the two main reasons.

Edit: And as I posted this I see 2 impatient folk already.

 

[me123]

As sad a loss as it will be, it's fairly inevitable. The trolley has a limited selection compared to the cafe bar, and you have to wait for it rather than going when you want a cup of tea/bite to eat. I'm one of those people who actually likes getting up and stretching my legs: East Coast has some very long journeys, and it's good to have even a short walk when you're sitting down for over four hours. There also is the significant issue of the trolley blocking your way through the train; it does happen and it's a right pain the backside, not least for the operator who has to move it to and from the vestibule every time someone needs the loo.

There is a real issue here, however, for disabled passengers. There needs to be some arrangement for these people to get food and drink the same as every other passenger, and I'm curious to see what that will be). I also think they would need to consider ensuring that the cafe bar is open for longer once the trolley goes, so that the facilities are there. Perhaps use two people when needed so that essential cleaning and stock taking can be carried out whilst the bar is still open.
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The trolley is really only a nuisance for those who are impatient. Most staff will let you past at the first possible opportunity.

I'm sure they do, but the first possible opportunity often means that you're standing for a few minutes whilst they serve a table (which could be four separate people paying for a variety of different things separately). Then they have to move out of the way (often meaning you have to go half way back the way you came to let them out...) and go back to where they were again. Not exactly the best experience when you're trying to get to the loo (although I doubt that there have been many accidents!). It takes them an age to get through the train, and no wonder.

 

[Failed Unit]

Edit: And as I posted this I see 2 impatient folk already.

But the impatient may be from the people wanting service from the trolley who expect service straight away so the trolley serves then straight away and the queue to pass it increases.

It can be difficult to pass as well, not sure on the eticate, bum in face or groin?

Anyway if I was mr impatient I would have used an angry rather than winking smilie!

 

[jon0844]

Pub staff don't take the attitude that "my shift finishes at eleven, so I'll stop serving drinks at half ten and then take a long time to wash glasses".

True, but I have been in clothes shops with the wife where they've closed the changing rooms half an hour before closing so they can start to tidy up. It happened a few times when we would go shopping at Bluewater late, to avoid the crowds, but realised that the staff have switched off long before closing!!

 

[Capybara]

The trolley is really only a nuisance for those who are impatient. Most staff will let you past at the first possible opportunity.

But I am a customer of the train company paying money for that privilege being held up by an employee of that company (or of another if the service is franchised) whose function is to make more money out of us the customers. I should be able to get to my seat, or wherever, without having to wait for them to get out of the way. And all I 'get' for this is a single visit at an unspecified time in my journey where I am invited to give them more of that money at their convenience and the inconvenience of others.

 

[silentone]

There is nothing more the British population love than a good old moan about something.

You know I really wish the government would do something about the sky. I really detest the colour Blue. I wonder what the DDA has to say on the sky being blue, I'm sure H&S could find an alternative colour which was more suitable.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

There is nothing more the British population love than a good old moan about something.

You know I really wish the government would do something about the sky. I really detest the colour Blue. I wonder what the DDA has to say on the sky being blue, I'm sure H&S could find an alternative colour which was more suitable.

You're not moaning about people moaning perchance?