Trolley service to go on EC??

[YorkshireRider]

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2099061?UserKey

 

[O L Leigh]

*Waits for loads of people to bleating on about NX cost-cutting, running the trains as a bus service and generally being a no-good bunch of pirates while harking back to some perceived Golden Age under GNER.*

Oh wait...!! But NX aren't involved any more. Well, I guess one operator is as bad as the next no matter who they are.

O L Leigh

 

[WestCoast]

I don't like trolleys on Inter City style routes, All they do is cause a blockage for a considerable time in the aisles.

If there is an open bar cafe/shop/buffet counter, most travellers don't miss the trolleys. Virgin seemed to scrap them a few years a ago (or at least I haven't seen one on the West Coast for a few years) and no one was too bothered about it.

 

[DarloRich]

I prefer a buffet but i know a lot of people dont like walking along the train to get a drink or something to eat. No loss for me IF a decent buffett service is opffered BUT i guess real passengers will not be happy!

 

[cuccir]

"Here we are in the 21st century with a company running ‘toffs specials’, with standard-class passengers having their food trolleys scrapped altogether, while first-class passengers can have as much beer and sandwiches as they want"

1. Its "as many beer and sandwiches as they want"
2. Booking in advance, I could currently get a 1st class return to London from Inverness easily for £150 (not that far in advance either - I can find fares that cheap for next week), and sometimes for as little as £102, ignoring any railcard discount. If I applied that, I can easily do the journey for under £100 - that is, 16 hours + on a train for less than £10 an hour. Now admittedly these are advance purchase tickets with all the conditions and bells attached, but unless EC remove their cheaper advance fares, this is hardly a 'toffs special'

 

[route:oxford]

Here we are in the 21st century with a company running ‘toffs specials’

It's quite sad really. At one time it was acceptable for people to work hard with an aspiration to enjoy spending a bit more on a little extra comfort. These days having a decent income is considered evil.

Out of interest...

Given that individuals with limited mobility may find it difficult to walk to the buffet and wheelchair bound passengers certainly won't be able to make their way up the aisles... What provision is being made to supply these customers with light refreshments?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....1. Its "as many beer and sandwiches as they want"....

Actually it's "as many beers and sandwiches as they want" or "as much beer and as many sandwiches as they want"

 

[Failed Unit]

If the were closing the buffet and replacing it with a trolley I think the uproar would begin. But I am in the won't miss the trolley brigade. It often can't get through the train anyway and is a pain as it is hard to pass when it does! If I want some refreshments I go to the buffet as you have no idea where the trolley is and when it will get to you.

The trolley probably gets some impulse buys but I suspect most people will walk to the buffet. East coast will have taken the guess they won't lose much revenue.

Thinking about it I haven't seen one for a while on Virgin either.

So in terms of cutbacks this is nothing compared to what we suffered from under national express. In fact we are still suffering from the cutback in the maintenance budget......

 

[Oswyntail]

I am in the pro-trolley camp. I dislike going to the buffet as a rule because:-

• You risk losing your seat
• I find it hard to balance while walking up the train (dodgy knees)
• I dislike the crowd of drunken bar flies you often find around the buffet end.

But even talking theoretically, this is a service provider cutting back on the quality of service. The inevitable result will be passengers getting the message(*) that they are little more than goods to be transported, and some leaving rail travel. TOCs should remember that budget airlines are NOT a sensible business model to follow.
(* Again. See, amongst others, ratio of airline seats, restaurant cars on long-distance services, porters (yes, i am that old), ticket "simplification", ticket prices, train lengths, connections)

 

[Failed Unit]

I am in the pro-trolley camp. I dislike going to the buffet as a rule because:-

• You risk losing your seat
• I find it hard to balance while walking up the train (dodgy knees)
• I dislike the crowd of drunken bar flies you often find around the buffet end.

But even talking theoretically, this is a service provider cutting back on the quality of service. The inevitable result will be passengers getting the message(*) that they are little more than goods to be transported, and some leaving rail travel. TOCs should remember that budget airlines are NOT a sensible business model to follow.
(* Again. See, amongst others, ratio of airline seats, restaurant cars on long-distance services, porters (yes, i am that old), ticket "simplification", ticket prices, train lengths, connections)

Budget airlines would never remove the trolley they make too much money out of it!

On a personal preference would you prefer the trolley OR the buffet?

The pro's and cons is well debated here but the trolley struggles when trains are overcrowded (when you seat is most a risk of getting taken) or when baggage blocks isles. So in the case of XC instead of trolley only it is often nothing. Even on east coast if the trolley leaves coach B heading for H it can be over an hour before it is seen again, so for many the dont see the trolley at all.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't like trolleys because the beer isn't cold and it doesn't do hot snacks. Plus they have limited stock carrying capacity

 

[Failed Unit]

As for the drunks - not something I have seen on east coast maybe I should get out on Friday evenings a bit more.

 

[tbtc]

As for the drunks - not something I have seen on east coast maybe I should get out on Friday evenings a bit more.

The most drunken trains on the EC services aren't Friday Night, they are the southbound Aberdeen services full of "demob happy" oil workers heading down to the North East of England, usually blootered by Montrose
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

*Waits for loads of people to bleating on about NX cost-cutting, running the trains as a bus service and generally being a no-good bunch of pirates while harking back to some perceived Golden Age under GNER.*

Oh wait...!! But NX aren't involved any more. Well, I guess one operator is as bad as the next no matter who they are.

O L Leigh

Well said.

Anyone who thought a "nationalised" ECML operator was suddenly going to bring back a "golden age" will be feeling naive...

 

[cuccir]

As for the drunks - not something I have seen on east coast maybe I should get out on Friday evenings a bit more.

I'm pretty sure that on the early Friday evening southbound trains that I've taken before - from about 4 onwards - there are more people drinking on the East Coast trains than aren't!

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm pretty sure that on the early Friday evening southbound trains that I've taken before - from about 4 onwards - there are more people drinking on the East Coast trains than aren't!

I am one of the if on the 1700 London - Edinburgh. But dont see many drunks. However get to Waverley and to be sober puts you in the minority if you are going for a Scotrail connection.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyone who thought a "nationalised" ECML operator was suddenly going to bring back a "golden age" will be feeling naive...

They fall for it every time.

DfT - "we'll insist on a review of catering provision."

Months pass...

DfT - "we agree with the previous well thought out decision."

 

[silentone]

Not sure how much truth is in this story as it has been doing the rounds in various forms over the last few weeks, the unions are of course playing on it.

From the revenue point of view the Trolley will quite often take more or match what the 'shop' does. That is a fact. People still will not walk to the shop even if it's in the next carriage.

Anyway from what I've heard there will still be trolley services, just not on every service. There are services which operate on a Bar or Trolley service availability and it seems these services are those most likely to lose it.

Nobody has actually seen what the catering provision will be after May other than those who created it and the company council. This story is really just part of a much bigger story.

 

[jon0844]

I think I am one of those people who likes the idea of a trolley, but then never gets anything as it passes through at the wrong time (either a train, or more often a plane).

Sometimes the trolley moves on and I think 'I wish I'd asked for...' but it's better to be able to go to a bar when I want. The concern is security, or losing your seat.

It's a shame you can't temporarily reserve your seat with a light when you go away (let it timeout after 10 minutes, say) as that might make people feel more comfortable about leaving their seat. You still have the security problem if you have bags that could be lifted if the train stops anywhere during your trip a few carriages along.

If I had to make a choice, it would be to lose the trolley and keep the cafebar. And when I went on EC this weekend, it was open until about 45-50 minutes before arrival. What was odd is that on both trips, the first announcement to say about it closing WAS to say it had closed. I'm surprised they don't announce it will be closing in 10-15 minutes to encourage those who are umming and ahhing about getting something to get off their backsides!

 

[syorksdeano]

East Coast have a trolley service? Everytime I catch East Coast either it's staff shortage for the reason that no trolley service is available or you never see it. I remember doing a London to Newcastle journey a few weeks ago and never saw it once....and I was only 1 carriage away from the "Cafe Bar"

 

[jon0844]

There wasn't one on Friday night, but it did come through first class yesterday. I have no idea if it went through to standard, or if there is/was another one.

 

[DarloRich]

The most drunken trains on the EC services aren't Friday Night, they are the southbound Aberdeen services full of "demob happy" oil workers heading down to the North East of England, usually blootered by Montrose


Montrose you say - Clearly the governmenthealth campaigns are working - It used to be Ferryhill! I have several mates in the oil and gas industry who use that service for the very reason that they CAN have a decent drink. Eastern Airlines dont allow enougth time for a decent session!

 

[scotsman]

I don't have an issue with it, as long as EC keep their word and no-one is made redundant

 

[ChrisCooper]

*Waits for loads of people to bleating on about NX cost-cutting, running the trains as a bus service and generally being a no-good bunch of pirates while harking back to some perceived Golden Age under GNER.*

Oh wait...!! But NX aren't involved any more. Well, I guess one operator is as bad as the next no matter who they are.

O L Leigh

It's always annoys me how so many people, both enthusiasts and rail workers, have such a bias attitude towards certain companies. One company does something and they will attack them, another favoured company does the same and they make every excuse they can for them. There does seem to be a general dislike of the "bus companies", yet First and Stagecoach often seem to get off easy, although I suppose they both have Scottish routes unlike NX and Arriva who are English. Anything foreign seems to be well loved automatically, especially if with state connection (like DB). People often forget when attacking NX that they ran their beloved MML who could do no wrong. More and more when it comes to how I view different companies is based on things like livery and variety, as it's about the only thing that changes. In that respect though GNER>NX>East Coast.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I don't have an issue with it, as long as EC keep their word and no-one is made redundant

Agreed, and in fact makes a lot of sense, it will be a lot easier to manage stock, save money on rail gormet as they wont have to supply them, and stop staff who are lets say slightly less than honest, using the trolleys to suppliment their income. They are quite often faulty/unsafe and damage the seats in standard when banging into them. Yes revenue will be lost through impulse buys but i doubt that outweighs the cost of the member of staff running them and the cost of rail gormet supplying them.

 

[DarloRich]

There is an intresting issue for those passengers who may be mobility impared. I wonder if any arrangements, perhaps through the travel assistance service, will be made.

 

[gordonthemoron]

they could always ask a fellow passenger

 

[YorkshireRider]

There is an intresting issue on those passengers who may be mobility impared. I wonder if any arrnagements, perhaps through the travel assistance service, will be provided.

Good point, does anyone know if virgin have a policy on this?

 

[silentone]

Agreed, and in fact makes a lot of sense, it will be a lot easier to manage stock, save money on rail gormet as they wont have to supply them, and stop staff who are lets say slightly less than honest, using the trolleys to suppliment their income. They are quite often faulty/unsafe and damage the seats in standard when banging into them. Yes revenue will be lost through impulse buys but i doubt that outweighs the cost of the member of staff running them and the cost of rail gormet supplying them.

RailGourmet supply everything related to catering onboard and they are getting a bigger role from May.

There are also the less honest staff but that with the stock management is an ongoing matter.

On the redundancies, there won't be any but the unions are fighting for voluntary redundancy as some staff want this. The Restaurant Host role is being lost from May and effectively means the staff are being demoted - some of them would rather leave. Some Chefs will also have to work as a CSA for part of their working day (this already happens on some trains, but those that don't are not happy that this could happen to them.) There are some Chefs who believe they have some sort of seniority because they are a Chef and doing anything less than Chef is an insult. Some of the Chefs would also like to leave.

 

[scotsman]

There are some Chefs who believe they have some sort of seniority because they are a Chef and doing anything less than Chef is an insult. Some of the Chefs would also like to leave.

From what I have seen of Michel Rue's Service it seems that they would be insulted because they would be demoted to an unfamiliar role. (Chef > Waiter)

 

[silentone]

Ah but they will happily do rest day working as a CSA