Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

[Bruce Hughes]

They aren't. He was expressing a wish that they would.

I understand, apologies

 

[cakefiend]

I may have missed it (32 pages is a lot to go through) but is there a list of refurbed pendos about?

 

[SansHache]

I may have missed it (32 pages is a lot to go through) but is there a list of refurbed pendos about?

390123, 390125, 390148. 390154, 390155, 390156 and 390157 are the refurb sets currently in service.
390131 is currently at Alstom Widnes undergoing refurb. It should be one train every 2 weeks from now.

 

[Huntergreed]

390123, 390125, 390148. 390154, 390155, 390156 and 390157 are the refurb sets currently in service.
390131 is currently at Alstom Widnes undergoing refurb. It should be one train every 2 weeks from now.

That gives a total of 98 weeks remaining for the rest of the fleet, giving a finish date of approximately May-June 2024.

Presumably the 805/807 fleet will be well into its introductory phase by this point?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Had a journey from Birmingham to Coventry this afternoon on 390125. Must say the seats are remarkably comfy, they're not too upright although they are a little claustrophobic.

I presume the seat layout is exactly the same as before, just with refurb?

 

[Huntergreed]

Had a journey from Birmingham to Coventry this afternoon on 390125. Must say the seats are remarkably comfy, they're not too upright although they are a little claustrophobic.

I presume the seat layout is exactly the same as before, just with refurb?

Yes - with the exception of coach G being converted from first to standard (the idea being that it’s saved them a lot of work in having to move around the reservation displays by keeping the seating layout the same).

It seems likely that, if they did change the layout, they would have tried to cram more seats in, further reducing legroom.

 

[Mikey C]

Yes - with the exception of coach G being converted from first to standard (the idea being that it’s saved them a lot of work in having to move around the reservation displays by keeping the seating layout the same).

It seems likely that, if they did change the layout, they would have tried to cram more seats in, further reducing legroom.

A bit of a shame, seeing that some luggage racks have a window to look out of, when neighbouring seats have a blank wall...

 

[LOL The Irony]

A bit of a shame, seeing that some luggage racks have a window to look out of, when neighbouring seats have a blank wall...

It's being headed by a First TOC, what were you expecting?

 

[Roger B]

It's being headed by a First TOC, what were you expecting?

It's root cause is the grinning monkey Richard Branson - who wanted the interior of pendos to resemble aircraft. So in the design phase no (or very little) thought was given to enabling good views of the countryside for passengers - especially in standard. And then his TV commercials always included shots of families sat by windows admiring the views!

 

[Grumpy Git]

It's root cause is the grinning monkey Richard Branson - who wanted the interior of pendos to resemble aircraft. So in the design phase no (or very little) thought was given to enabling good views of the countryside for passengers - especially in standard. And then his TV commercials always included shots of families sat by windows admiring the views!

If the windows were any smaller they be like those in an aircraft.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's root cause is the grinning monkey Richard Branson - who wanted the interior of pendos to resemble aircraft. So in the design phase no (or very little) thought was given to enabling good views of the countryside for passengers - especially in standard. And then his TV commercials always included shots of families sat by windows admiring the views!

This Forum does like a good Branson bash, but in reality no new build train since the 158 and until the 397 had a fully aligned Standard layout (though many, e.g. the 185s, were better than the Pendolino in this regard).

 

[43096]

This Forum does like a good Branson bash, but in reality no new build train since the 158 and until the 397 had a fully aligned Standard layout (though many, e.g. the 185s, were better than the Pendolino in this regard).

We’re not even talking fully aligned, thought. The Pendolino layout is just really, really, really badly designed. Having luggage stacks which have a window view when there are passenger seats with vast expanses of plastic is just utterly brain dead. WorstGroup have had an opportunity to fix that, but being the organisation they are, of course haven’t done so.

 

[Grumpy Git]

We’re not even talking fully aligned, thought. The Pendolino layout is just really, really, really badly designed. Having luggage stacks which have a window view when there are passenger seats with vast expanses of plastic is just utterly brain dead. WorstGroup have had an opportunity to fix that, but being the organisation they are, of course haven’t done so.

I agree, it’s unforgivable and frankly lazy design. It tells the passenger that they don’t give a fig.

 

[cakefiend]

It's root cause is the grinning monkey Richard Branson - who wanted the interior of pendos to resemble aircraft. So in the design phase no (or very little) thought was given to enabling good views of the countryside for passengers - especially in standard. And then his TV commercials always included shots of families sat by windows admiring the views!

That's not even true. Pendolinos are an off the shelf design from Fiat (now Alstom). Have a look at the Portguese, Spanish, Swiss, Italian, Slovenian, Green, Czech Pendolinos and see what size their windows are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not even true. Pendolinos are an off the shelf design from Fiat (now Alstom). Have a look at the Portguese, Spanish, Swiss, Italian, Slovenian, Green, Czech Pendolinos and see what size their windows are.

Slightly bigger than UK ones, as the UK version is squashed vertically. But not particularly big. About 80x-sized.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's not even true. Pendolinos are an off the shelf design from Fiat (now Alstom). Have a look at the Portguese, Spanish, Swiss, Italian, Slovenian, Green, Czech Pendolinos and see what size their windows are.

The off-the-shelf design had to be modified for the UK gauge (new front end etc) but the 390 interior was pretty much all Alstom/Virgin.
Amusingly the Pendolino production around 2000 all had the trademark Alstom ex-TGV table lamps in 1st, now mostly replaced during refurbishment.
I've tried most of the "foreign" Pendolinos and they do have the same general ambience and (very good) ride.
The Trenitalia version has a porthole-type window into the cab so you can see something of the line ahead - that would have been nice in a 390.
Of course the ICE-T (using the same tilt mechanism) has a full view ahead in 1st, right behind the driver.

 

[Mikey C]

This Forum does like a good Branson bash, but in reality no new build train since the 158 and until the 397 had a fully aligned Standard layout (though many, e.g. the 185s, were better than the Pendolino in this regard).

The Networker generation have fully aligned windows. AND very thin pillars, so they're not at all intrusive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Networker generation have fully aligned windows. AND very thin pillars, so they're not at all intrusive.

Ah yes, forgot those, though they're of similar vintage to the 158. 323s too.

The way you do it is to have a window spacing that's slightly less than needed for a Standard bay, then you give the facing bays the window and both pillars, and a pair of airline rows just the pillars. In 1st you do similar but give the bay a bit more and have only one row of airlines plus a luggage rack behind it. That way a single window layout will give you an aligned layout in both classes.

For priority seats, you replace one table with airline seats which gives you the necessary extra legroom.

 

[390136]

390131 is out tonight
390124 replaces it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2022 ==

221114 is finally making its way back to central rivers for repair

Realtime Trains | 5Z14 1045 Polmadie Car M.D. to Crewe C.S. | 08/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z14 1045 departure from Polmadie Car M.D. to Crewe C.S. on 08/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[voyagerdude220]

390131 is out tonight
390124 replaces it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2022 ==

221114 is finally making its way back to central rivers for repair

Realtime Trains | 5Z14 1045 Polmadie Car M.D. to Crewe C.S. | 08/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z14 1045 departure from Polmadie Car M.D. to Crewe C.S. on 08/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What happened to 114 please?

 

[390136]

What happened to 114 please?

I believe it was a hydraulic fault, engineers have cleared it to move on it’s own power now but non tilt. They’ll get it to CZ next week and hopefully back out by the end of next week!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I believe it was a hydraulic fault, engineers have cleared it to move on it’s own power now but non tilt. They’ll get it to CZ next week and hopefully back out by the end of next week!

Great, thanks very much for the info.

 

[Sorcerer]

I've seen mention of the Pendolino window alignment being the result of a bad design with some comparison to older stock being drawn up, but for what it's worth, would any of those old designs have been able to withstand the 95mph derailment at Grayrigg? Despite being somewhat claustrophobic the 390s are robust units, and the issues of luggage racks and seat alignment with the windows are also partly down to the interior design which as mentioned is an operator decision. I do think Avanti should've tried to align the window seats better but they were kind of in a bit of a pickle with the need for new seats, capacity, more luggage space and other necessary features. I think they mostly did the best with what they were given.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I've seen mention of the Pendolino window alignment being the result of a bad design with some comparison to older stock being drawn up, but for what it's worth, would any of those old designs have been able to withstand the 95mph derailment at Grayrigg? Despite being somewhat claustrophobic the 390s are robust units, and the issues of luggage racks and seat alignment with the windows are also partly down to the interior design which as mentioned is an operator decision. I do think Avanti should've tried to align the window seats better but they were kind of in a bit of a pickle with the need for new seats, capacity, more luggage space and other necessary features. I think they mostly did the best with what they were given.

It’s a lot easier to make an interior better when you cough up to replace the old seat reservation system!

 

[Carlisle]

It’s a lot easier to make an interior better when you cough up to replace the old seat reservation system!

They can’t be that expensive to install given LNER fitted them on all their Mk 4 sets despite many having only a year or two more of service.

 

[Agent_Squash]

They can’t be that expensive to install given LNER fitted them on all their Mk 4 sets despite many having only a year or two more of service.

The LNER solution was based on wireless e-ink displays, was it not? Much easier than the hard wired system in the Pendolino’s.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Indeed it was. The cost of altering the system on the Pendos was (& presumably still is) eye watering.

 

[py_megapixel]

Why is just disabling it and sticking up new displays not an option, maybe with some cheap plastic blanking plates to cover the old ones?

 

[Carlisle]

The LNER solution was based on wireless e-ink displays, was it not? Much easier than the hard wired system in the Pendolino’s.

Ok thanks for the information

 

[XAM2175]

Why is just disabling it and sticking up new displays not an option, maybe with some cheap plastic blanking plates to cover the old ones?

... because that would still cost more than doing nothing?