BBC reporting that Agency staff could cover strikes under law change

[yorksrob]

I'd add the Bank of England and their western equivalents thinking printing money like there's no tomorrow would solve all their problems to the causes of inflation. Perhaps if they did their job properly and got rid of all the QE, and actually put rates up to rates that might actually bring inflation down, then maybe there would be no need to strike in demand of large pay increases just to keep up with inflation.

No amount of increasing interest rates will bring inflation down because the inflation is primarily caused by external supply chain issues.

 

[Gems]

FFS.
THIS IS NOT LIKE THE MINERS STRIKE

It is to the Daily Mail and Express reading types. Every dispute has to be like the miners strike, it's the default excuse they use to justify their union hating views. I wouldn't care, I bet half of them weren't even born in the early 80s

 

[philthetube]

I'd bring in the Armed Forces just like during Fire Brigade strikes

To do what?

Sounds sarcastic

Sounds like a fair question to me.

 

[Gems]

No amount of increasing interest rates will bring inflation down because the inflation is primarily caused by external supply chain issues.

This inflationary run is to a degree, that is true. But interest rates can be used as a rather blunt tool to control it. The problem is this, and I apologise for going off topic, but the BoE have ignored the problem to try and keep the housing market bubble from bursting.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well done Mr Shapps, next time you come up with a great idea try and write it down somewhere better than the back of a fag packet.

I was not aware that he was a known smoker who would have a packet of what you describe on his person. In these 21st century days, people carry items of technology with which to do as you so intimate.

 

[yorksrob]

This inflationary run is to a degree, that is true. But interest rates can be used as a rather blunt tool to control it. The problem is this, and I apologise for going off topic, but the BoE have ignored the problem to try and keep the housing market bubble from bursting.

That is true.

There needs to be a more fundamental reform of the housing market.

 

[gazzaa2]

In reality employment conditions, leave and other entitlements like flexible working, NMW and parental leave have all increased substantially under 12 years of Conservative government.

They are always at war with workers though. Whether it's unions, the police, GP's, nurses, teachers, civil servants and now train drivers are the latest bogeymen for the government and their sycophants in the press.

THe type of middle class professions that would have made up much of the Tory vote in the past. Thatcher only targeted the lowest hanging fruit.

 

[Gems]

I was not aware that he was a known smoker who would have a packet of what you describe on his person. In these 21st century days, people carry items of technology with which to do as you so intimate.

Okay, he wrote it on his tablet. There, does that make you feel better.

 

[brad465]

No amount of increasing interest rates will bring inflation down because the inflation is primarily caused by external supply chain issues.

Maybe not entirely, but higher interest rates increase the value of the pound, as long as its raised higher than the dollar/other currencies, which lowers the costs of imports traded in those currencies. The QE needs withdrawing though ASAP, that is definitely not external.

 

[Gems]

Maybe not entirely, but higher interest rates increase the value of the pound, as long as its raised higher than the dollar/other currencies, which lowers the costs of imports traded in those currencies. The QE needs withdrawing though ASAP, that is definitely not external.

Inflation destroys the value of debt. And there is plenty of debt this government has run up.

 

[O L Leigh]

I've come to the conclusion that a depressingly large amount of people won't be happy until we all have American style employment rights.

For some reason people seem to think they are good rather than a dystopian hellscape.

This is the issue, and has been alluded to already.

People will support an erosion of employment rights when it applies to something that they feel opposed to without realising that at the same time they are eroding their own and everyone else’s employment rights. They might be content to limit action taken by railstaff but might be less happy when they find it applies to something they actually do support.

No matter whether you feel that the action is justified, we’re all going to end up in the cart as a consequence of this. It alarms me a little that public opinion is being mobilised to such an extent by a Government that is set on rolling back everyone’s rights. By supporting the Government’s line on this you undo all the progress hard won by previous generations in protecting the rights of the individual.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This really is a nonsensical idea ! There is no possible way that agency staff could be trained, assessed and passed competent to carry out such safety-critical roles as Signaller, Driver or Guard, and if you don't have those jobs covered, you don't have trains.

This probably isn't a "go-er" for the railway for the reasons you state, but it could well be in other industries where the skills are less specialist, e.g. bus drivers or bin men. I'm definitely in support of it; if staff have the right to withdraw their labour, then employers must have the counter-right to get in alternative labour (which will cost them heavily financially, so there's still leverage) to ensure the survival of their business. It also means strikes hit the employer rather than the customer, which is fairer as the grievance is with the employer. (Anyone who has a grievance with their customer base as a whole needs to find a new job, as customers are why your business exists).

One thing I don't entirely get, reading the above, as an aside, is why substitute guards seem to have so many issues with the basic job of "open local door, look to see if there's a platform there, only if there is release the others" - that would strike me as the most obvious and least difficult part of the guard's role. I'd see more nuanced things like belling off on a red signal to be more likely dangerous errors.

 

[Leuvenn]

Im against the strikes on principle

So you're against all collective bargaining whatsoever? Are you against the journalists who wrote this piece who also benefit from collective bargaining

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In my long life, the Labour Party always seemed to view borrowing as a good thing in terms of meaning to facilitate needed matters. The Conservatives always viewed matters to the opposite, until this pandemic affected Britain, then it was as if a Damascene moment had affected The Treasury and its Chancellor who then began to borrow to internally spend far in excess of what the Labour Party had ever suggested.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Inflation destroys the value of debt. And there is plenty of debt this government has run up.

It also destroys the value of personal debt, which is of value to homeowners. You stretch yourself to go up the ladder when you're young to middle-age and can work hard to pay a hefty mortgage, but then your monthly payment is effectively peanuts by the time you near retirement. This does have benefits, and is one of the reasons low single-digit inflation is better than actual zero (though a big part of it is that actually getting to zero is hard, and a negative figure, even a tiny one, is strongly bad because people stop spending).

 

[Gems]

This is the issue, and has been alluded to already.

People will support an erosion of employment rights when it applies to something that they feel opposed to without realising that at the same time they are eroding their own and everyone else’s employment rights. They might be content to limit action taken by railstaff but might be less happy when they find it applies to something they actually do support.

No matter whether you feel that the action is justified, we’re all going to end up in the cart as a consequence of this. It alarms me a little that public opinion is being mobilised to such an extent by a Government that is set on rolling back everyone’s rights. By supporting the Government’s line on this you undo all the progress hard won by previous generations in protecting the rights of the individual.

I wish we could 'like' this post. Never a truer paragraph written.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my long life, the Labour Party always seemed to view borrowing as a good thing in terms of meaning to facilitate needed matters. The Conservatives always viewed matters to the opposite, until this pandemic affected Britain, then it was as if a Damascene moment had affected The Treasury and its Chancellor who then began to borrow to internally spend far in excess of what the Labour Party had ever suggested.

To me borrowing for capital expenditure on an asset from which an income can be derived or where the payments are affordable in return for a benefit (e.g. HS2 or a new airport, or purchasing a car) is prudent, but borrowing on an ongoing basis for "living costs" is not. Though everyone has a "tight month" from time to time and might have to stick an unexpected car repair on their credit card and clear it over a few months, say (the equivalent of borrowing to deal with COVID). This is a prudent way to run your personal finances and those of a country.

 

[Gems]

In my long life, the Labour Party always seemed to view borrowing as a good thing in terms of meaning to facilitate needed matters. The Conservatives always viewed matters to the opposite, until this pandemic affected Britain, then it was as if a Damascene moment had affected The Treasury and its Chancellor who then began to borrow to internally spend far in excess of what the Labour Party had ever suggested.

If you look back over the past 40 years you will discover the biggest borrowers have always been the Tories.

To me borrowing for capital expenditure on an asset from which an income can be derived or where the payments are affordable in return for a benefit (e.g. HS2 or a new airport, or purchasing a car) is prudent, but borrowing on an ongoing basis for "living costs" is not. Though everyone has a "tight month" from time to time and might have to stick an unexpected car repair on their credit card and clear it over a few months, say (the equivalent of borrowing to deal with COVID). This is a prudent way to run your personal finances and those of a country.

Very true. And if these two waring sides had a ounce of sense between them they wouldn't only talk pay, but also talk productivity. The solution to a recession is increased productivity. We have to be more productive.

 

[skyhigh]

One thing I don't entirely get, reading the above, as an aside, is why substitute guards seem to have so many issues with the basic job of "open local door, look to see if there's a platform there, only if there is release the others" - that would strike me as the most obvious and least difficult part of the guard's role. I'd see more nuanced things like belling off on a red signal to be more likely dangerous errors.

Even with contingency guards things like opening on the wrong side are very unlikely. The more common issues are things like dispatching on a red, not standing in the correct position to check the train is fully accommodated on the platform, not dispatching from a safe position etc.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Even with contingency guards things like opening on the wrong side are very unlikely. The more common issues are things like dispatching on a red, not standing in the correct position to check the train is fully accommodated on the platform, not dispatching from a safe position etc.

....and watching out for occasions when young drunken females are leaning on the side of the carriage when the train is about to depart, an unfortunate matter that led to a fatality in the Merseyside area.

 

[skyhigh]

....and watching out for occasions when young drunken females are leaning on the side of the carriage when the train is about to depart, an unfortunate matter that led to a fatality in the Merseyside area.

That was a completely different type of incident, which is why a custodial sentence was handed down.

 

[Gems]

Where are all these agency staff going to come from may I ask. The man who criticised P&O for sacking workers and replacing them with agency staff advocates something similar.

 

[Efini92]

Imagine having as many as 5 a year!

They’d have to go on strike to get that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was a completely different type of incident, which is why a custodial sentence was handed down.

And also wasn't an agency/stand-in guard but a regular one. And was wilful rather than just negligent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

That is true.

There needs to be a more fundamental reform of the housing market.

Though inflation de-facto brings prices down without causing people to lose their homes. This is quite a good side-effect of it.

 

[Gems]

And also wasn't an agency/stand-in guard but a regular one. And was wilful rather than just negligent.

The Jame's Street incident was absolutely dreadful. But at the time of the court case much of the public were blaming the young lass for being drugged up and drunk. Everyone of my colleagues on the railway were not blaming her at all, but blaming him.

 

[JamesT]

Inflation destroys the value of debt. And there is plenty of debt this government has run up.

Depends on the form of debt. Some government bonds are index-linked, so will be rising along with inflation.

 

[HSTEd]

Though inflation de-facto brings prices down without causing people to lose their homes. This is quite a good side-effect of it.

But that requires house prices to remain stable in nominal terms.

Given that the house price inflation is caused by a real shortage and not some financial effect, this is unlikely.
More likely house prices will just inflate in lock step with general prices.

 

[HORNIMANS]

Just as the railway in a lot of places have new trains better timetables now than 50 years ago when I was a lad the unions just want to destroy it,
Whatever the outcome of this action, there will be real cuts in jobs thats modernisation. people who worked in retail, banks etc all thought they had jobs for life!
not anymore and is moving faster now more than ever. its not just rail workers that are impacted by inflation, fuel, food and energy increases and no wage rises But all of us!!

 

[brad465]

This is the issue, and has been alluded to already.

People will support an erosion of employment rights when it applies to something that they feel opposed to without realising that at the same time they are eroding their own and everyone else’s employment rights. They might be content to limit action taken by railstaff but might be less happy when they find it applies to something they actually do support.

No matter whether you feel that the action is justified, we’re all going to end up in the cart as a consequence of this. It alarms me a little that public opinion is being mobilised to such an extent by a Government that is set on rolling back everyone’s rights. By supporting the Government’s line on this you undo all the progress hard won by previous generations in protecting the rights of the individual.

This, this and thrice this.

 

[Starmill]

How much concern will that actually be ?
Unless govt intends to change the law, RMT can pay the staff to take action as they did in the month long 2019 SWR guards strike

RMT don't have the resources to make significant solidarity payments to the number of people likely to take strike action however, as they did at SWR. Now, they may be able to fundraise significantly more in the next few weeks, or they may be able to arrange local funds or much smaller solidarity payments.

Given there have already been three Saturdays of strike action and no Sunday working for fifteen weeks for TransPennine Express conductors, a further three days of action in just over a week's time already leaves some staff feeling very exposed and concerned. The need for solidarity funding will be great.