Alternative Routes During Strikes

[johnny_t]

I have to go from Selby or York to Heathrow on the 20th, and was going to get an Open Return (to allow for plane delays, etc) but returning on the 25th, which is a planned strike day for LNER and Hull Trains.

My usual plan would be to just turn up at Kings Cross and see what's running, but if the answer is nothing, would I be allowed to get, say, a service from Euston to Birmingham or Manchester and the get either a Cross Country or TPE across ?

EDIT - Actually, it looks like neither of those are any use, either

 

[Haywain]

I have to go from Selby or York to Heathrow on the 20th, and was going to get an Open Return (to allow for plane delays, etc) but returning on the 25th, which is a planned strike day for LNER and Hull Trains.

My usual plan would be to just turn up at Kings Cross and see what's running, but if the answer is nothing, would I be allowed to get, say, a service from Euston to Birmingham or Manchester and the get either a Cross Country or TPE across ?

EDIT - Actually, it looks like neither of those are any use, either

The whole rail network will be affected by the strikes. Alternative routes really won’t help.

 

[Watershed]

I have to go from Selby or York to Heathrow on the 20th, and was going to get an Open Return (to allow for plane delays, etc) but returning on the 25th, which is a planned strike day for LNER and Hull Trains.

My usual plan would be to just turn up at Kings Cross and see what's running, but if the answer is nothing, would I be allowed to get, say, a service from Euston to Birmingham or Manchester and the get either a Cross Country or TPE across ?

EDIT - Actually, it looks like neither of those are any use, either

The strike will affect all operators as Network Rail signallers are amongst those on strike. The only TOC that will be unaffected will be Island Line, as they manage their own infrastructure and have not voted for strike action.

I'm sure there will be ticket acceptance permitting other routes, but I doubt that will particularly help you. You may well find that there are trains on the ECML to Leeds and Edinburgh but no trains at all to/from Selby.

 

[miklcct]

Will there be ticket acceptance on long distance coach services if the whole railway network is on strike?

 

[6Gman]

Will there be ticket acceptance on long distance coach services if the whole railway network is on strike?

No.

Why would there be?

(I suppose that if the TOC parent operates parallel bus routes they might make some offer but that won't apply widely.)

 

[paul1609]

I'd be booking either a coach or one way hire car ASAP. Nobody should be relying on rail for essential transport for the foreseeable future imho.

 

[miklcct]

No.

Why would there be?

(I suppose that if the TOC parent operates parallel bus routes they might make some offer but that won't apply widely.)

So how will the railways fulfill the transport obligation to ticket holders?

 

[A Challenge]

So how will the railways fulfill the transport obligation to ticket holders?

They won't bother - no delay repay either if they cancel the service by 2200 the night before

 

[Haywain]

Will there be ticket acceptance on long distance coach services if the whole railway network is on strike?

Not a hope - why would they when there will be more paying pssengers than they'd be able to cope with? The National Express website actually has a page about rail disruption seeking to take advantage of concerns around strikes and engineering works (and I don't blame them).

 

[Hadders]

Will there be ticket acceptance on long distance coach services if the whole railway network is on strike?

I don't think you understand what a strike actually means. Effectively there will be nothing, and no-way of making a journey by rail. Other modes of public transport will not have the capacity to cope, even if there was ticket acceptance (which there won't be). Just stay at home.

There might be a very, very limited sleleton service operating but this will very much depend on who and what turns up on the day itself and it should not be relied upon.

 

[AlterEgo]

So how will the railways fulfill the transport obligation to ticket holders?

They’re not going to. There is no way to do so.

 

[sonic2009]

Maybe consider getting yourself to Leeds Bradford Airport - Flybe operate services into London Heathrow

 

[A Challenge]

They’re not going to. There is no way to do so.

I'll admit this won't help everyone, but they could be getting groups into taxis at major stations, I'm sure that with two weeks notice almost every taxi driver in the country would be able to be available knowing they're likely to get hundreds of pounds in fare off a TOC - but the TOC wouldn't actually even bother trying to do that as it's much better for them to blame the RMT and not pay out for taxis.

I do believe that if any changes need to be made for strike action, a requirement to do something like this (have to transport passengers at any cost) would be a good idea to encourage TOCs to reach a settlement, as it feels at the moment this could go on for months, but with taxi bills like that they'd find a way to stop the strikes

 

[AlterEgo]

I'll admit this won't help everyone, but they could be getting groups into taxis at major stations, I'm sure that with two weeks notice almost every taxi driver in the country would be able to be available knowing they're likely to get hundreds of pounds in fare off a TOC - but the TOC wouldn't actually even bother trying to do that as it's much better for them to blame the RMT and not pay out for taxis.

How many taxis do you think there are, to take people perhaps a hundred miles or more? If you organise for literally every taxi driver in the country to take three people, you’d not even come close to fulfilling people’s journeys. And then there are no taxis for people that desperately rely on them daily.

I do believe that if any changes need to be made for strike action, a requirement to do something like this (have to transport passengers at any cost) would be a good idea to encourage TOCs to reach a settlement, as it feels at the moment this could go on for months, but with taxi bills like that they'd find a way to stop the strikes

“Why not just absolutely decimate the finances of the publicly backed railway?” is not a solution.

 

[A Challenge]

How many taxis do you think there are, to take people perhaps a hundred miles or more? If you organise for literally every taxi driver in the country to take three people, you’d not even come close to fulfilling people’s journeys. And then there are no taxis for people that desperately rely on them daily.

“Why not just absolutely decimate the finances of the publicly backed railway?” is not a solution.

I know that is not necessarily the best idea, but it was the easiest way I could come up with quickly for hitting the TOCs in the pocket for the strikes. I know they do have a bit more of a financial disincentive than the Universities, with refunds of tickets, but forgive me for being slightly annoyed at being forced to make up for strikes at my own cost instead of that of the people that actually have a say in it - I've paid (OK, not out my bank account) £9,250 for Uni this year, and I'm fairly sure I've failed at least one module because of stuff that was on the exam I've never been taught, and I'm not getting a fee refund for the strikes so the University is still getting all its money in but is making a nice profit out of not paying lecturers, so there's been little incentive to get the strikes to end, though at least this lot weren't too long.

Sorry for going a bit off topic in that rant, mods

 

[The exile]

So how will the railways fulfill the transport obligation to ticket holders?

I suspect that industrial action is one of the exclusions, as it is in many contracts. Their obligation then extends no further than a refund (and probably not even then for a ticket purchased for an already announced strike day)

 

[Watershed]

I suspect that industrial action is one of the exclusions, as it is in many contracts. Their obligation then extends no further than a refund (and probably not even then for a ticket purchased for an already announced strike day)

There is no exclusion for industrial action in the NRCoT or the PRO. Indeed, the European Court of Justice ruled back in 2013 that not even 'force majeure' delays are exempt from compensation under the PRO. The issue is more a practical one, as it is quite apparent that the TOCs have no intention of providing or arranging alternative transport.

A clause purporting to exclude the possibility of a refund when no service is provided (as will be the case on many lines) would be an unfair and hence unenforceable term. At least the rail industry doesn't go so far as to try and pull this trick.

 

[Starmill]

I suspect that industrial action is one of the exclusions, as it is in many contracts. Their obligation then extends no further than a refund (and probably not even then for a ticket purchased for an already announced strike day)

If you buy a ticket now for a strike day, in error, or because the website hasn't yet been updated, and there's no usable service, they're still obliged to refund you.

 

[Hadders]

I'll admit this won't help everyone, but they could be getting groups into taxis at major stations, I'm sure that with two weeks notice almost every taxi driver in the country would be able to be available knowing they're likely to get hundreds of pounds in fare off a TOC - but the TOC wouldn't actually even bother trying to do that as it's much better for them to blame the RMT and not pay out for taxis.

I do believe that if any changes need to be made for strike action, a requirement to do something like this (have to transport passengers at any cost) would be a good idea to encourage TOCs to reach a settlement, as it feels at the moment this could go on for months, but with taxi bills like that they'd find a way to stop the strikes

There will be nowhere near enough taxis. Have you ever seen the length of the queue at a London station when there’s a tube strike on? It will be faster to walk.

 

[miklcct]

There will be nowhere near enough taxis. Have you ever seen the length of the queue at a London station when there’s a tube strike on? It will be faster to walk.

How about buses and coaches?

 

[Horizon22]

So how will the railways fulfill the transport obligation to ticket holders?

By refunding you.

 

[SargeNpton]

This on the National Rail Enquiries website, may answer some questions...

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Watershed]

This on the National Rail Enquiries website, may answer some questions...

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

At the moment it has no detail on exactly what is being offered. It just restates the normal position, e.g. even suggesting an admin fee may apply if you get a refund due to the strike!

 

[ComUtoR]

...for hitting the TOCs in the pocket for the strikes....

The Signallers are going on strike. That's probably having the biggest impact on services. The Signallers are not run by the TOCs. TOCs where staff are going on strike are also the ones under the DfT as its the Gov that's refusing the pay deals. This is a huge loss of revenue to the Government coffers. From what other posters have been saying. The Gov are happy, if not excited, to lose a ton of money fighting those naughty Unions. From a money-go-round perspective it will be interesting to see where it all stops.

 

[Hadders]

How about buses and coaches?

It will be the same. There will be massive demand for alternative forms of transport and they simply won’t cope.

Just change your plans and stay at home that day.

 

[DelayRepay]

Would Delay Repay be available, if a passenger held a ticket for a strike day but had to travel the following week instead?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Would Delay Repay be available, if a passenger held a ticket for a strike day but had to travel the following week instead?

Depends if the train the next week was delayed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would Delay Repay be available, if a passenger held a ticket for a strike day but had to travel the following week instead?

Seems to me more likely that if the train didn't run because of the planned strike action, it would be deemed 'cancelled' for that particular day rather than 'delayed'.

This does then beg the question as to whether the ticket holder would be able to apply for a (full?) refund from the ticket retailer, or Delay Repay from the TOC whose service didn't run, and/or whether the ticket remains valid for use on an alternative, non-strike day?

 

[DelayRepay]

Seems to me more likely that if the train didn't run because of the planned strike action, it would be deemed 'cancelled' for that particular day rather than 'delayed'.

This does then beg the question as to whether the ticket holder would be able to apply for a (full?) refund from the ticket retailer, or Delay Repay from the TOC whose service didn't run, and/or whether the ticket remains valid for use on an alternative, non-strike day?

My thinking is that if you apply for a refund, you then have to buy another ticket to make the journey at a later date, so you are not compensated for the inconvenience. A refund for a journey that could not take place is not compensation.

So I wondered if, for example if you held a ticket for 25 June, but all services were cancelled so you had to travel on 26 June instead, could you claim Delay Repay for a 24 hour delay - effectively making your journey free?

I guess not under the 'services showing in the timetable at 22:00 the previous day' rule.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you don't use your ticket at all you haven't been delayed because you didn't travel. In that case you apply for a refund.