Comment piece in Passenger Transport - "The railway risks becoming irrelevant"

[ainsworth74]

Ryanair are experts at upselling. That is getting more money from the punter for extras. Want a seat with extra legroom. that will be £20. and so it goes on. The railway bung you on a train and dont think how they can make more money out of the punters they have.

Or even actively turn extra money away. CrossCountry refusing to allow holders of advance tickets to purchase weekend first even when the first class section is a ghost town. I was denied a few months ago between Birmingham and Darlington so that was an extra £20 that they lost for no appreciable gain.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I don't smoke or drink, but I pay the same or more to subsidise those that will need the NHS through their lifestyle choice.

A strange assertion. You don't pay the tax/excise duty on alcohol and tobacco. People who do smoke and drink pay in more than you do. Many of them do not have health problems requiring NHS assistance. Many who do require NHS support do not smoke or drink.

 

[g492p]

You forgot

You forgot a few things. Helping passengers with limited mobility and helping with ticket issues, directions and other things a driver can't realistically do . Oh and occasionally make the driver a tea ,

Can’t forget the driver’s tea

 

[Railwaysceptic]

You do have to wonder why so many people who “dislike” the railways, spend half their time on a railway forum, dreaming up reasons for its impending demise.

Because this forum is open to anyone interested in railways. It's quite possible to be interested in railways while strongly disapproving of the way they are organised and run in this country.

 

[baz962]

A strange assertion. You don't pay the tax/excise duty on alcohol and tobacco. People who do smoke and drink pay in more than you do. Many of them do not have health problems requiring NHS assistance. Many who do require NHS support do not smoke or drink.

And I'm happy to subsidise those that don't smoke or drink and require NHS. And yes they pay tax duty. But some cancer treatments etc cost absolute fortunes. And what about people who drive stupidly or participate in extreme sports. Point is we all subsidise each other. What about people who can work but refuse. Or single mums who refuse to name the father, so they dodge child support. What about self employed that don't declare all their income. And while we are at it , no one mentions other trades. Some private companies get fortunes to do council work. I used to be a labourer on very poor money, for a company called hat property maintenance. They used to make council properties inhabitable for the next tenants in the Brent and surrounding areas for Brent council. The plumbers were all earning over a thousand pounds a week in 1997. Don't see you moaning about subsidising them. I used to know someone that replaced the bulbs in the lights on motorways for more money any nurse etc would make. Don't see you moaning about that either.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

And I'm happy to subsidise those that don't smoke or drink and require NHS. And yes they pay tax duty. But some cancer treatments etc cost absolute fortunes. And what about people who drive stupidly or participate in extreme sports. Point is we all subsidise each other. What about people who can work but refuse. Or single mums who refuse to name the father, so they dodge child support. What about self employed that don't declare all their income. And while we are at it , no one mentions other trades. Some private companies get fortunes to do council work. I used to be a labourer on very poor money, for a company called hat property maintenance. They used to make council properties inhabitable for the next tenants in the Brent and surrounding areas for Brent council. The plumbers were all earning over a thousand pounds a week in 1997. Don't see you moaning about subsidising them. I used to know someone that replaced the bulbs in the lights on motorways for more money any nurse etc would make. Don't see you moaning about that either.

Another strange post! First, I haven't "moaned" about subsidising anyone. You have. Second, you seem to resent and dislike a lot of people. I don't.
Third, having a drink and paying excise duty for doing so has nothing to do companies and people being paid excessively for work in the public sector.

 

[Facing Back]

Ryanair are experts at upselling. That is getting more money from the punter for extras. Want a seat with extra legroom. that will be £20. and so it goes on. The railway bung you on a train and dont think how they can make more money out of the punters they have.

They are also experts at taking cost and waste out of their operation

 

[vicbury]

No there aren't, that's a lie. The (large) majority are of the former category, not the latter.

Really? I took four trains yeaterday: 1 x Cross Country, 2 x GWR, 1 x TfW. Didn't see a single guard.

 

[eldomtom2]

They are also experts at taking cost and waste out of their operation

I think attempts to imitate Ryanair's staff policy would result in a full-blown nationwide strike - not just on specific days like the upcoming one.

 

[Facing Back]

I think attempts to imitate Ryanair's staff policy would result in a full-blown nationwide strike - not just on specific days like the upcoming one.

Like having cabin crew clean the plane at turnarounds.... I'm not advocating quite that level of flexibility amongst train crew

 

[baz962]

Another strange post! First, I haven't "moaned" about subsidising anyone. You have. Second, you seem to resent and dislike a lot of people. I don't.
Third, having a drink and paying excise duty for doing so has nothing to do companies and people being paid excessively for work in the public sector.

Another strange post! First, I haven't "moaned" about subsidising anyone. You have. Second, you seem to resent and dislike a lot of people. I don't.
Third, having a drink and paying excise duty for doing so has nothing to do companies and people being paid excessively for work in the public sector.

I don't dislike anyone. I'm just saying it's no different to slating rail staff. I'm just saying that some people are paid excessively from our taxes for changing light bulbs on motorways , because that is out of our taxes , as is refurbishing council properties. It's the people on here that are jealous of well paid rail staff and I'm just pointing out that I subsidise others and so won't be made to feel guilty about being subsidised . And as for those that are striking ( not me ) .. That is their right.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think attempts to imitate Ryanair's staff policy would result in a full-blown nationwide strike - not just on specific days like the upcoming one.

You don't necessarily have to copy policy, just look at what they do and consider if there are any practices that could be used. It happens all the time around the globe, no industry should remain in a self-contained bubble. There are always good practices that can be ported & amended to suit others without having to copy exactly. One example might come from Jet2, despite all the chaos over the last few months they have been not had to cancel anything like as many flights as others, because in general they employ their own ground teams at the airports, both land & air side instead of relying on contractors hired by the airports. The result is that they can be a little more flexible & are less affected by staff shortages than other airlines. And knowing as I do quite a few people who work for them, it seems that they are an employer that works hard to value it's employees, encouraging them not only to work as a team but rewarding them too. Frankly right now I am keeping an eye out for some possible options with them myself, I had eyed one job up in early 2020, but we all know what happened then!

 

[Facing Back]

You don't necessarily have to copy policy, just look at what they do and consider if there are any practices that could be used. It happens all the time around the globe, no industry should remain in a self-contained bubble. There are always good practices that can be ported & amended to suit others without having to copy exactly. One example might come from Jet2, despite all the chaos over the last few months they have been not had to cancel anything like as many flights as others, because in general they employ their own ground teams at the airports, both land & air side instead of relying on contractors hired by the airports. The result is that they can be a little more flexible & are less affected by staff shortages than other airlines. And knowing as I do quite a few people who work for them, it seems that they are an employer that works hard to value it's employees, encouraging them not only to work as a team but rewarding them too. Frankly right now I am keeping an eye out for some possible options with them myself, I had eyed one job up in early 2020, but we all know what happened then!

Agreed. My other half is currently on holiday in spain with her daughter and 3 grandkids. They flew Jet2 and despite all the flight chaos the service was great. They were proactive and communicated and available to respond when called and very helpful to 2 stressed adults with 3 small children who had consumed too much sugar. The opposite of my experience with RyanAir. Low cost airlines clearly can provide decent levels of service. I'd vowed never to use this kind of service but I'll try them because of this.

Good luck in your job hunting.

It's a bit off topic so I'll move on now....

 

[Bantamzen]

Agreed. My other half is currently on holiday in spain with her daughter and 3 grandkids. They flew Jet2 and despite all the flight chaos the service was great. They were proactive and communicated and available to respond when called and very helpful to 2 stressed adults with 3 small children who had consumed too much sugar. The opposite of my experience with RyanAir. Low cost airlines clearly can provide decent levels of service. I'd vowed never to use this kind of service but I'll try them because of this.

Good luck in your job hunting.

It's a bit off topic so I'll move on now....

Thanks. I flew back from Malaga last September and due to all the extra paperwork needed to come home, Jet2 had flown out extra staff to work the queues at check-in to help passengers ensure they had everything ready before stepping up to the desks, including helping people fill out the damn forms. Its that extra mile that they seem to be willing to go do that makes so much difference to the experience.

 

[Facing Back]

Thanks. I flew back from Malaga last September and due to all the extra paperwork needed to come home, Jet2 had flown out extra staff to work the queues at check-in to help passengers ensure they had everything ready before stepping up to the desks, including helping people fill out the damn forms. Its that extra mile that they seem to be willing to go do that makes so much difference to the experience.

Good to know. Agreed that extra mile does make all of the difference. It can't be that expensive in the big scheme of things to put a bit of extra thought into these things. I'm a BA exec gold member and my partner tells me she's rather fly Jet2 now - so there is extra revenue from us coming their way.

I'm still not planning on getting of a train anytime soon. We've organised a carpool at work for our trips to London, failing that my local taxi firm will lay on an S-class merc to take 3 of us there and back and drive us around all day for way less than the cost of 3 peak time tickets. If I can work out a way to get a few G&Ts for the return trip we may never go back to the train.

 

[Robert Ambler]

Really? Can you provide a link to the stats please?

Regarding your other points, pure fantasy I’m afraid, pumping money into roads or “electrifying road freight” would cost way more than investment in rail.

As much as the pessimists on here (which would appear to be predominantly people who don’t work in rail and never have) would love the railways to be run down and mass closures, it ain’t about to happen anytime soon. Sorry to disappoint.

Let’s face it the majority of it stems from the strange obsession (envy?) with salaries from people outside the industry and it’s almost a huge desire for there to be massive closures/upheaval within the industry.

According to the ORR's own figures the pre covid statistics are that 2% of passenger journeys and 5% of freight lifted was by rail in the UK. The statistics note that the average rail journey by passengers or freight tended to be longer than other modes so the % by km figures look a little better.

Of course you know what they say about statistics!

 

[HSTEd]

Numerous studies have demonstrated that a very large share of road freight electrification could be achieved with a comparatively small quantity of electrified road lane-miles. Lorries tend to cover a very large portion of their mileage on a relatively small number of roads, this goes up even higher if a comparatively short range battery pack is provided that can be recharged on the move.

It is highly unlikely to cost anything like as much as a significant railway electrification programme per unit traffic actually decarbonised.

 

[wobman]

Yet they have become europe's biggest airline.

They must be doing something right.

There customer service was the subject & they are awful at that element. They wanted to make you pay to pay for using a toilet on the plane ! They even looked at standing seats to get more on a plane, the main reason they are the biggest is that they drive away the competition due to there shear size.

 

[wobman]

Because this forum is open to anyone interested in railways. It's quite possible to be interested in railways while strongly disapproving of the way they are organised and run in this country.

But the majority of the criticism is not constructive though, it's bashing the staff and not understanding how the industry actually works.
There's many problems in the industry that there's easy solutions too, but nobody consults the staff or even listens to them.

 

[matacaster]

You don't necessarily have to copy policy, just look at what they do and consider if there are any practices that could be used. It happens all the time around the globe, no industry should remain in a self-contained bubble. There are always good practices that can be ported & amended to suit others without having to copy exactly. One example might come from Jet2, despite all the chaos over the last few months they have been not had to cancel anything like as many flights as others, because in general they employ their own ground teams at the airports, both land & air side instead of relying on contractors hired by the airports. The result is that they can be a little more flexible & are less affected by staff shortages than other airlines. And knowing as I do quite a few people who work for them, it seems that they are an employer that works hard to value it's employees, encouraging them not only to work as a team but rewarding them too. Frankly right now I am keeping an eye out for some possible options with them myself, I had eyed one job up in early 2020, but we all know what happened then!

Yes, I agree jet2 are a pretty good budget holiday outfit and do attempt to look after their passengers.

 

[DC1989]

There customer service was the subject & they are awful at that element. They wanted to make you pay to pay for using a toilet on the plane ! They even looked at standing seats to get more on a plane, the main reason they are the biggest is that they drive away the competition due to there shear size.

But they make money, which is something rail operators could perhaps try to do

 

[wobman]

But they make money, which is something rail operators could perhaps try to do

They one make money as the air industry receives lots of indirect subsidy, if you google the subject it will shock you.

 

[Facing Back]

There customer service was the subject & they are awful at that element. They wanted to make you pay to pay for using a toilet on the plane ! They even looked at standing seats to get more on a plane, the main reason they are the biggest is that they drive away the competition due to there shear size.

lol both of those are urban myths - but their "charge for anything" reputation meant that most of us believed them when the stories were first published.

The one about people being hospitalised through heat exhaustion by wearing all of their holiday clothes on the flight to avoid baggage charges is apparently true though.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes paying for toilets is an unban myth.

 

[OuterDistant]

I'm pretty sure the pay toilet / standing / single pilot stories were publicity stunts, eagerly lapped up by moronic tabloid journalists, which was the intent.

 

[miklcct]

The one about people being hospitalised through heat exhaustion by wearing all of their holiday clothes on the flight to avoid baggage charges is apparently true though.

I'm interested in this. Could you please give me a source? Thank you.

 

[Facing Back]

I'm pretty sure the pay toilet / standing / single pilot stories were publicity stunts, eagerly lapped up by moronic tabloid journalists, which was the intent.

I hadn't heard about the single pilot one! Next you'll be telling me that they don't have a navigator any more!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

But the majority of the criticism is not constructive though, it's bashing the staff and not understanding how the industry actually works.
There's many problems in the industry that there's easy solutions too, but nobody consults the staff or even listens to them.

The right way to counter anything in a forum you disagree with is to use facts and argue rationally. Suggesting people should not post in a forum is not the right way.

 

[reddragon]

Most criticism I read on this thread is about the system, operating practises and design. It's outdated.

Most comments about staff are positive. I have met very few rude railway people

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most comments about staff are positive. I have met very few rude railway people

I think that depends where you are. Most aren't rude, I'd agree, but there does seem to be a significant contingent of rude, disinterested staff to the south and south east of London for some reason (including Victoria), including, in my experience, almost all gateline staff I've encountered. And no, before anyone asks, I don't fare-dodge, so have never encountered gateline staff in a context where they might have some justification in being a little short.

Elsewhere in the country I've experienced plenty of laziness (most notably in booking offices, but also the classic LNR guard who never does tickets) but very little rudeness.