John Luxton
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Merseyrail Bustitution Kirkby and New Brighton
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Shockingly bad they run the Ellesmere Ports every half hour round the loop but can't even put one set with a driver and guard on Bhead North - New Brighton.
Once again, their useless planning manager has proved to be clueless.
Once again, their useless planning manager has proved to be clueless.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It does seem rather bad to lop whole branches rather than to drop to a Sunday service throughout.
D821
Member
From what people have said on here, I can't see this situation improving anytime soon.
Vespa
Established Member
Which could have been avoided if 777 was introduced in time, there may even be a possibility of no trains running at all if the failures are cascaded throughout the fleet as they're of the same age.
A train route with no trains at all, the news media will be all over it.
A train route with no trains at all, the news media will be all over it.
nanstallon
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I suppose we need to ask why the 777 class have not been introduced. It may not be all the fault of management.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's certainly a failure of management not to anticipate the industrial relations issues which are the "first level" cause.
The reasons have been posted around several Merseyrail/777 threads on these forums of late. Merseyrail may now end up with their hand forced thanks to a rapidly failing fleet.
Regardless of what you might have read on this forum, the 777s received are not fit for service(yet) software issues and numerous wiring faults are the main causes.
The current situation with the 507/508 could have been avoided with proper planning, the upgraded power supply to run the 777s is damaging the wheel bearings to the point they need replacing. This reduced service could go on for some time.
The current situation with the 507/508 could have been avoided with proper planning, the upgraded power supply to run the 777s is damaging the wheel bearings to the point they need replacing. This reduced service could go on for some time.
Sorry to be a luddite - but how will the upgraded power supply cause issues to the wheel bearings? I thought the upgraded power supplies were to shore up some areas with voltage drops that the PEPs could deal with, but not the newer trains.
From what my friend explained(who works there) the 507 etc can run happily as low 500v. The 777 will refuse to move anything lower than 750v. A theory is that some sections are now well above and beyond 750v. The company that makes the bearings has confirmed they damaged by cause of electrical stress.
pdeaves
Established Member
The return currents pass through the bearings to wheel and thence rail, so an unexpected result of an electrical change could affect a bearing.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Sorry that I’ve not been following the 777 story. Noting other responses about complex physics issues and manufacturing defects on the new trains (presumably abroad) can you clarify how industrial relations issues are the first level cause of the stock shortage please?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The 777s cannot be introduced until the issue of how they will be worked is resolved. Thus, there is presently no scope to introduce then. So regardless of anything else they are unable to move forward.
The trains were bid and acquired on a basis of driver-only operation. This meant the "demotion" or ridding of guards to either not be there, or just be wandering up and down the train checking tickets, having lost responsibility for door opening and closing etc. Industrial relations is the unions obviously not being happy about this situation. Proposals have been put forward but so far rejected. Bletchleyite's post generally means it was extremely short-sighted of Merseyrail/Merseytravel to not forsee these issues.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, exactly. Anyone who thought a change of working practices would go through easily, and who didn't address them from a much earlier stage, was naive in the extreme.
Merseyrail combines the two most "militant" workforces in the UK - the railway and Merseyside* - and so this was entirely foreseeable and should have been agreed before the things had even been ordered (removing the need for costly modifications like adding guard panels which if guard operation was the final agreement needed to be in from day one).
* Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Liverpool, remember that's my origins and so I know well what it's like.
jamesst
Established Member
When you're told last minute it's about the best you can do. Changing staff/unit diagrams and frequencies needs a bit more time .
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So given that this is going to go on for a while (if I read upthread correctly), has that work started?
jamesst
Established Member
I'd certainly hope so!
I'd defo be asking questions about the late notice though, that says a lot about Merseyrail/Stadler relations more than anything.
It's also Important to note units are being repaired they aren't just being left. I doubt very much it'll be the long term thing some on here are making it out to be.
trainophile
Established Member
Forgive my ignorance but why is this only affecting the Wirral lines?
Kirkby, not West Kirby affected
one Wirral, one Northern.
trainophile
Established Member
Ah, sorry missed that. No problems for the Southport line then? (Yet.)
The speed at which this has happened and accelerated could never have been predicted (think the overnight withdrawal of the 80x fleet, almost) the situation yesterday morning was completely different to yesterday evening, which is why the changes came in so suddenly.
I imagine they've chosen the quietest lines to reduce the service.
Not yet, but a lot of services booked as 6-car services are still running as 3-car on Ormskirk and Southport lines, presumably down to lack of unit availability.
trainophile
Established Member
They don’t really need 6-car (except in the peaks) now that they’re back to a 15 minute service.
Are these faults repairable?
Are these faults repairable?
Yea it's the peak hour ones that are often running as 3-car. I've been very er... snugly packed in recently.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Has the electrical supply system just been changed then?
How does this compare to 3rd rail power supply experience with the similar class 313s, ie the Southern units around Brighton?
markymark2000
On Moderation
Easiest way would be cut the Eport line back to a shuttle. That saves 2 diagrams. 1 diagram then does a New Brighton shuttle. And 1 unit then spare or to do a peak extra or whatever.
For me, I think the failure with Merseyrail as a whole is that, unlike the West Midlands, when something goes wrong, they opt for Rail Rep buses and we have a driver shortage already and so normal service should take priority. What should be happening is getting ticket acceptance on local buses. The 20/21 basically duplicate the whole of the Kirkby line. Granted they don't serve Sandhills or Kirkdale but people can go to Orrell Park or Walton on the 20/21 and change onto the Ormskirk Line. Fazakerley to Southport Line you have the 62 to Bootle then Southport line from there.
There you go, No Rail Rep needed, just pay Stagecoach to accept passes.
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