Merseyrail Bustitution Kirkby and New Brighton

[wobman]

Regardless of what you might have read on this forum, the 777s received are not fit for service(yet) software issues and numerous wiring faults are the main causes.

The current situation with the 507/508 could have been avoided with proper planning, the upgraded power supply to run the 777s is damaging the wheel bearings to the point they need replacing. This reduced service could go on for some time.

Good project management woukd have forseen these problems

 

[185]

There you go, No Rail Rep needed, just pay Stagecoach to accept passes.

This also happens in Manchester, with SG - when the Metrolink falls down

Good project management woukd have forseen these problems

Person seemingly making the planning decisions came under a cloud from another operator that fell apart, and deserves to go after three years of poor decisions.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The speed at which this has happened and accelerated could never have been predicted (think the overnight withdrawal of the 80x fleet, almost) the situation yesterday morning was completely different to yesterday evening, which is why the changes came in so suddenly.

It's quite suspect that these problems only occur on a Sunday. This is the 2nd consecutive Sunday where Merseyrail have put up a notice late in the evening saying they are cutting services. Are the units in some sort of industrial dispute and trying to get Sunday taken outside the working week?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The return currents pass through the bearings to wheel and thence rail, so an unexpected result of an electrical change could affect a bearing.

They don't there are brushes on the axles to shunt the current round the wheel bearings deliberately as this problem was understood a long time ago.

The speed at which this has happened and accelerated could never have been predicted (think the overnight withdrawal of the 80x fleet, almost) the situation yesterday morning was completely different to yesterday evening, which is why the changes came in so suddenly.

More likely once the issue started to emerge there was more checking being done across the fleet and a wider problem emerged. Although how much of the bearing you can see without removing the wheelset im not sure. So they could be taking precautionary action based on mileage since last bogie overhaul until they can remove the wheelsets.

Has the electrical supply system just been changed then?
How does this compare to 3rd rail power supply experience with the similar class 313s, ie the Southern units around Brighton?

No different the operating area for the 313's and over some sections of their running its actually been reinforced beyond original southern standard to a "high current" railway and they don't suffer any issues.

From what my friend explained(who works there) the 507 etc can run happily as low 500v. The 777 will refuse to move anything lower than 750v. A theory is that some sections are now well above and beyond 750v. The company that makes the bearings has confirmed they damaged by cause of electrical stress.

Its current that would cause pitting but as i've explained above the wheelsets have brushes on the axles to shunt the current round the bearings to avoid this. The higher voltage wouldn't materially change the mean traction current as the camshaft will notch up quicker if the voltage is higher. Also whilst the train would theoretically be able to attain a higher top speed and thus draw more overall power the station to station sections are too short. I'm not disputing the bearings haven't been damaged but not sure the full technicalities of cause are yet understood. Hopefully an "Informed Sources" will get published.

 

[footprints]

Update from Merseyrail.

From Monday 13 June, services will resume on Kirkby & New Brighton lines but with changes to train times and frequency.

Trains will run every 30 minutes on the Ormskirk, Kirkby, Hunts Cross, New Brighton, West Kirby, Chester & Ellesmere Port lines. Trains will run every 15 minutes between Southport and Liverpool Central.

Currently a rail replacement bus service is still running on the Kirkby & New Brighton lines and there are some cancellations on the West Kirby, Chester & Ellesmere Port lines.

This is due to the increase in wheel bearing faults.

We ask passengers to check before you travel and please allow more time for your journey

 

[HuggyB87]

AFAIK,

1. 777s are likely to be introduced at the back end of this year, starting with the Kirkby line - with Headbolt Lane due to open in early 2023 with no 3rd rail, its utterly important that the trains are in service.
2. A funding agreement has been reached to introduce "Train Managers" as the second safety critical person with some dispatch duties, and this has been put to the union but with no response yet.
3. There is still the issue of drivers driving on a DOO basis, along with simulator training to be completed (as far as I am aware).

Talking specutively:
Thinking about RR buses, I wonder if the lack of trains running on some lines is due to the upgraded power works, which is causing these issues in the first place, so operating trains on the "unprepared" lines to effectively prevent further trains becoming a victim to bearing faults?

 

[jamesst]

AFAIK,

1. 777s are likely to be introduced at the back end of this year, starting with the Kirkby line - with Headbolt Lane due to open in early 2023 with no 3rd rail, its utterly important that the trains are in service.
2. A funding agreement has been reached to introduce "Train Managers" as the second safety critical person with some dispatch duties, and this has been put to the union but with no response yet.
3. There is still the issue of drivers driving on a DOO basis, along with simulator training to be completed (as far as I am aware).

Talking specutively:
Thinking about RR buses, I wonder if the lack of trains running on some lines is due to the upgraded power works, which is causing these issues in the first place, so operating trains on the "unprepared" lines to effectively prevent further trains becoming a victim to bearing faults?

Nope it was purely a case of pick the quietest lines and pull services until they could get a reduced service plan past network rail which starts on Monday.

 

[karlbbb]

Plus dropping the Kirkby and New Brighton lines only effectively dropped 6 stations (5 if you discount Rice Lane which is basically on top of Walton which still had service) so smallest impact.

 

[100andthirty]

From what my friend explained(who works there) the 507 etc can run happily as low 500v. The 777 will refuse to move anything lower than 750v. A theory is that some sections are now well above and beyond 750v. The company that makes the bearings has confirmed they damaged by cause of electrical stress.

This indicates that something else is wrong. The bearings should not be carrying current. Thr traction return though be passed to the wheels and hence to the rails via so called earth brushes connected to the axles. I imagine the Stadler engineers who maintain the class 507/508 will be scratching their heads.

 

[markymark2000]

Plus dropping the Kirkby and New Brighton lines only effectively dropped 6 stations (5 if you discount Rice Lane which is basically on top of Walton which still had service) so smallest impact.

Combined with the fact the Kirkby line is duplicated IN FULL by local buses.

New Brighton it is easyish for people to get to Birkenhead and Liverpool too with the local buses.

Take that into account as well. The same can't be said for the Ormskirk line for example as the buses don't run as close to those stations as New Brighton and Kirkby.

 

[karlbbb]

Merseyrail going back to the 15-minute timetable from Monday 20th: https://www.merseyrail.org/plan-your-journey/normal-service-resumes.aspx

Looks like the bearing is getting fixed/replaced quite quickly. Spotted a unit going past this morning that had lovely, fresh, bright yellow bearing covers and shiny bolts. I assumed this was a repaired unit.

 

[D821]

That's good news. I has an email
about it, though the news of the 15 minute service was followed by information about the impact of the strikes.
I must admit that whilst my usual train has been busier, it hasn't been particularly bad, though i think other lines have been hit a lot harder.

 

[HuggyB87]

As of this morning, 19 units were off the road. They must be expecting a surge in repairs over the next few days

 

[D821]

Parts arriving, perhaps?