TFW legal action threat

[Moss32]

Recieved this from Transport for Wales.


Thank you for your email reply to my letter where you confirmed your reason for requesting refunds on the following dates was due to you not travelling because of either work commitments or Covid.

Following on from this and our additional enquiries we have evidence to suggest that at least on the following dates you have travelled.

4th January 2022

8th January 2022

20th January 2022

21st January 2022

25th January 2022

As a result we require additional clarification as sufficient evidence exists to submit these to the Prosecution's Authority as fraudulent refund claims which are tantamount to a criminal offence under Sections 1 and 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Before any further decision is made however it is requested that you attend an interview under caution at Prestatyn Railway station, you may wish to be legally represented.

This interview will enable you to clarify further your claims for refunds before any final decision is reached into how this case may be disposed of. This is a serious matter and we would therefore request that you contact us to arrange a suitable and mutual date and time for this interview.

Should you fail to contact us within 7 days we will have no option but to proceed upon the evidence that we have in hand, obviously it is therefore in your best interests to contact us as a matter of urgency.










Really don't want to go to the meeting as i suffer with bad anxiety and can't afford legal support. How would i be able to prove no wrong doing. And what could be the potential repercussions if i can't prove no wrong doing. I'm very worried. Any advice?

 

[WesternLancer]

Really don't want to go to the meeting as i suffer with bad anxiety and can't afford legal support. How would i be able to prove no wrong doing. And what could be the potential repercussions if i can't prove no wrong doing. I'm very worried. Any advice?

Hi welcome to the forum - this sounds pretty serious. If you want to proove no wrong doing is it correct to assume there is none - ie you had valid tickets for the days they say you travelled?

But take care not to post anything here that may incriminate yourself eg if you do not wish to answer that.

I think you may be needing to find legal support despite the cost - or at least be getting some quotes.

Hope others can offer you some useful advice.

 

[Wolfie]

Hi welcome to the forum - this sounds pretty serious. If you want to proove no wrong doing is it correct to assume there is none - ie you had valid tickets for the days they say you travelled?

But take care not to post anything here that may incriminate yourself eg if you do not wish to answer that.

I think you may be needing to find legal support despite the cost - or at least be getting some quotes.

Hope others can offer you some useful advice.

Agreed. Why would TfW say that unless they had strong prima facie evidence?

 

[Moss32]

Hi welcome to the forum - this sounds pretty serious. If you want to proove no wrong doing is it correct to assume there is none - ie you had valid tickets for the days they say you travelled?

But take care not to post anything here that may incriminate yourself eg if you do not wish to answer that.

I think you may be needing to find legal support despite the cost - or at least be getting some quotes.

Hope others can offer you some useful advice.

I bought tickets but then applied for refunds, as i didn't travel.

 

[skyhigh]

As a result we require additional clarification as sufficient evidence exists to submit these to the Prosecution's Authority as fraudulent refund claims which are tantamount to a criminal offence under Sections 1 and 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Before any further decision is made however it is requested that you attend an interview under caution at Prestatyn Railway station, you may wish to be legally represented.

In light of that I would seriously consider seeking professional legal advice. A Fraud conviction could have much more serious implications than the usual type of cases that come up on here.

You may wish to consider if these are genuine refunds, or if you know you claimed them when you weren't entitled to them. From what they've said they appear to have some evidence that you weren't entitled to those refunds. If so, I wouldn't post that on here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==

I bought tickets but then applied for refunds, as i didn't travel.

Why do they think you did then?

 

[Moss32]

In light of that I would seriously consider seeking professional legal advice. A Fraud conviction could have much more serious implications than the usual type of cases that come up on here.

You may wish to consider if these are genuine refunds, or if you know you claimed them when you weren't entitled to them. From what they've said they appear to have some evidence that you weren't entitled to those refunds. If so, I wouldn't post that on here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==


Why do they think you did then?

I did request quite alot of refunds between December and January due to Covid, and change of travel plans.

 

[skyhigh]

I did request quite alot of refunds between December and January due to Covid, and change of travel plans.

How many is 'quite a lot', and roughly what percentage of your total bookings were these?

 

[Moss32]

How many is 'quite a lot', and roughly what percentage of your total bookings were these?

Many, there are many reason's like anxiety around at that time, I just don't know what to do. I'm worried sick.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As people have already said, you need to think about whether there's any truth in TfW's accusation - both for the days they have quoted, and any other days that you asked for a refund. As has also been said, it's probably better that you don't say anything one way or the other here - if anyone from TfW happens to read this forum they will be able to work out this is you.

If you have asked for any refunds that you shouldn't, my suggestion would be a courteous letter to TfW giving details of what refunds you wrongly asked for, apologising and asking if it would be possible to settle this matter out of court.

If you are certain all your refunds were legitimate, then try to think of any evidence you might have that you didn't travel
That might be things like credit/debit card transactions from near home on the appropriate days: if you were working from home then there might be emails saying as much, or your employer might be able to confirm you were at home.

Whatever you do, don't go to the interview alone. Even if you cannot get a lawyer, take a friend - to take notes, and to discuss quite what the people from the railway said.

 

[Moss32]

As people have already said, you need to think about whether there's any truth in TfW's accusation - both for the days they have quoted, and any other days that you asked for a refund. As has also been said, it's probably better that you don't say anything one way or the other here - if anyone from TfW happens to read this forum they will be able to work out this is you.

If you have asked for any refunds that you shouldn't, my suggestion would be a courteous letter to TfW giving details of what refunds you wrongly asked for, apologising and asking if it would be possible to settle this matter out of court.

If you are certain all your refunds were legitimate, then try to think of any evidence you might have that you didn't travel
That might be things like credit/debit card transactions from near home on the appropriate days: if you were working from home then there might be emails saying as much, or your employer might be able to confirm you were at home.

Whatever you do, don't go to the interview alone. Even if you cannot get a lawyer, take a friend - to take notes, and to discuss quite what the people from the railway said.

I really don't think i can face the interview. I know that makes me look guilty, but my anxiety is kicking in now. Never been in trouble in my life. I'm a mess. I just don't know what to do. but thanks for your advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Get a solicitor. Do not attend the interview without one.

You do not need to attend the interviews, and if you do attend you do not need to say anything. You can, if you choose, say “no comment” to all questions and note down their questions which may reveal their line of investigation.

But really you ought to get a solicitor. Soon.

 

[skyhigh]

Many, there are many reason's like anxiety around at that time, I just don't know what to do. I'm worried sick.

I'm assuming these were e-tickets you bought via an app? You need to be aware that if so they will be able to see the entire scan history for those tickets - so if you have claimed a ticket was unused, but they can see it was scanned at barriers or onboard a train they will know it has been used.

Given that they are essentially saying they are giving you seven days to book an interview or they will look to proceed, I suspect they have some fairly strong evidence to back up their assertions of use on the dates listed. You need to consider (but don't post here!): Why they think what they do? What evidence might they have for those dates? What evidence do you have you didn't travel on those days?

But I really recommend that you get professional legal advice as soon as possible.

 

[Moss32]

I'm assuming these were e-tickets you bought via an app? You need to be aware that if so they will be able to see the entire scan history for those tickets - so if you have claimed a ticket was unused, but they can see it was scanned at barriers or onboard a train they will know it has been used.

Given that they are essentially saying they are giving you seven days to book an interview or they will look to proceed, I suspect they have some fairly strong evidence to back up their assertions of use on the dates listed. You need to consider (but don't post here!): Why they think what they do? What evidence might they have for those dates? What evidence do you have you didn't travel on those days?

But I really recommend that you get professional legal advice as soon as possible.

They were physical tickets.

 

[Southern Beau]

They were physical tickets.

How did you apply for a refund for the paper tickets?

 

[Moss32]

How did you apply for a refund for the paper tickets?

Via customer relations email address, I really can't afford a solicitor, can't remember what i did on them dates. I was so struggling mentally at that time, my head is just a mess now.

 

[Wethebest838]

Do they just go down their emails and see who’s requested multiple refunds? I don’t understand how they can pinpoint this. Can someone elaborate on the process?

 

[Moss32]

Its so tricky, One of them was literally a Rhyl to Prestatyn journey, i got my ticket, went to get a pint and ended up getting a lift as i was going a football match in Prestatyn. I just don't see how they can say they have proof of things that's didn't happen.

 

[yorkie]

Its so tricky, One of them was literally a Rhyl to Prestatyn journey, i got my ticket, went to get a pint and ended up getting a lift as i was going a football match in Prestatyn. I just don't see how they can say they have proof of things that's didn't happen.

You got the ticket on the day you were due to travel and then changed your mind? How did you buy the ticket? Without knowing the exact sequence of events it is difficult to comment.

If you have used the tickets, your best bet to avoid a potential prosecution is to ask TfW if they will settle the matter out of court. The sooner you make this arrangement, the greater the chance of success and the lower the potential amount of the settlement may be.

 

[Moss32]

You got the ticket on the day you were due to travel and then changed your mind? How did you buy the ticket? Without knowing the exact sequence of events it is difficult to comment.

If you have used the tickets, your best bet to avoid a potential prosecution is to ask TfW if they will settle the matter out of court. The sooner you make this arrangement, the greater the chance of success and the lower the potential amount of the settlement may be.

The pub i go is near the station, i pass the station from work so always get them a bit earlier as the ticket office shuts sometimes before 7, and i can just rush round onto the platform.

 

[Wethebest838]

Its so tricky, One of them was literally a Rhyl to Prestatyn journey, i got my ticket, went to get a pint and ended up getting a lift as i was going a football match in Prestatyn. I just don't see how they can say they have proof of things that's didn't happen.

I agree. I have no doubt you are being truthful. I just don’t get how and why it’s flagged up. Is it due to it being loads in a short amounts of time?

 

[yorkie]

That doesn't really answer the question; did you buy the tickets online and if so did you select ticket on departure (TOD) and collect the tickets before going to the pub? Did you choose a particular itinerary and if so was the ticket collected shortly before this time and you changed your mind and went to the pub or something else?

The problem is, it sounds really suspicious, even if you are telling the truth, if something like this has happened multiple times, and each one sounds unlikely, then the culmination of all of these events is going to really ring alarm bells.

 

[Wethebest838]

The problem is, it sounds really suspicious, even if you are telling the truth, if something like this has happened multiple times, and each one sounds unlikely, then the culmination of all of these events is going to really ring alarm bells.

See that’s what I’m a bit ??? about. One time is yeah like cool as it happens. You end up getting a lift or change your mind but multiple times in a short amount of time?

 

[Moss32]

That doesn't really answer the question; did you buy the tickets online and if so did you select ticket on departure (TOD) and collect the tickets before going to the pub? Did you choose a particular itinerary and if so was the ticket collected shortly before this time and you changed your mind and went to the pub or something else?

The problem is, it sounds really suspicious, even if you are telling the truth, if something like this has happened multiple times, and each one sounds unlikely, then the culmination of all of these events is going to really ring alarm bells.

Yes i bought online, To be honest i buy open day returns so don't really look at what time i select. I collected on the way to the pub, so that if the main ticket office was shut or the machine on the platform was busy, i could just jump on the train, saves rushing my pint ha. The thing is, i can't remember every event of every day of the 5 they asked about, as this was 4 months ago, and i do travel alot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==

See that’s what I’m a bit ??? about. One time is yeah like cool as it happens. You end up getting a lift or change your mind but multiple times in a short amount of time?

I do get why it sounds suspicious, But alot were because of other reason's where my anxiety was up, and thing's were being cancelled left, right and centre.

 

[Wethebest838]

I do get why it sounds suspicious, But alot were because of other reason's where my anxiety was up, and thing's were being cancelled left, right and centre.

Did you request another recently? How many have you requested recently? I think if you’ve done loads then you’ve been flagged up.

 

[Chris999999]

Recieved this from Transport for Wales.


Thank you for your email reply to my letter where you confirmed your reason for requesting refunds on the following dates was due to you not travelling because of either work commitments or Covid.

Following on from this and our additional enquiries we have evidence to suggest that at least on the following dates you have travelled.

4th January 2022

8th January 2022

20th January 2022

21st January 2022

25th January 2022

As a result we require additional clarification as sufficient evidence exists to submit these to the Prosecution's Authority as fraudulent refund claims which are tantamount to a criminal offence under Sections 1 and 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. Before any further decision is made however it is requested that you attend an interview under caution at Prestatyn Railway station, you may wish to be legally represented.

This interview will enable you to clarify further your claims for refunds before any final decision is reached into how this case may be disposed of. This is a serious matter and we would therefore request that you contact us to arrange a suitable and mutual date and time for this interview.

Should you fail to contact us within 7 days we will have no option but to proceed upon the evidence that we have in hand, obviously it is therefore in your best interests to contact us as a matter of urgency.










Really don't want to go to the meeting as i suffer with bad anxiety and can't afford legal support. How would i be able to prove no wrong doing. And what could be the potential repercussions if i can't prove no wrong doing. I'm very worried. Any advice?

Your first post on this forum on the 20th January was in reply to Kaius26 about going for an interview:

I received a letter today from Northern rail asking me to go for an interview about the possible suspicious activity on my account? Has anyone else had this?


Any help appreciated

You asked "Did you manage to get it all sorted?"


Is there something you are not telling us?

 

[Moss32]

Did you request another recently? How many have you requested recently? I think if you’ve done loads then you’ve been flagged up.

They were all back in December/January, I've never been in trouble in my life, so this has just blown my head.

 

[skyhigh]

Your first post on this forum on the 20th January was in reply to Kaius26 about going for an interview:

Bit odd given they're mentioning journeys that took place after then...

 

[Moss32]

Your first post on this forum on the 20th January was in reply to Kaius26 about going for an interview:



"Did you manage to get it all sorted?"


Is there something you are not telling us?

My refund requests were being help up due to frequently requests already, and i thought it was suspended. they did email me about it in january.

 

[Wethebest838]

My refund requests were being help up due to frequently requests already, and i thought it was suspended. they did email me about it in january.

I’m still trying to understand this. You emailed TfW and asked for refunds all at once or every single week/day you didn’t travel?

 

[AlterEgo]

We cannot help the OP if they are not truthful with us.

OP, get a solicitor, this is serious. No point posting half truths or incomplete stories on here.