Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[Vespa]

The Charlie Line? I’d posit some of our politicians are already familiar with the concept.

(And a reason Charles Line would never be used)

Doubt it will ever be a Charlie Line as Prince Charles planned regal name is George, there's a perceived jinx on the name Charles as the first one lost his head and the second one couldn't produce a legitimate heir leading to the eventual demise of the Stuart line ending with Queen Anne.

 

[kevin_roche]

Unusual to have it on a Tuesday? Everyone was wrong xD

I wish I had posted my guess as a date. First day of my Holiday so I won't be able to travel on it until I get back.

 

[Watershed]

Here's a fare question - I travel from the East to Abbey Wood for work. According to the TFL fare finder though, if I change at Liverpool Street the peak cost is £5.50 rather than £2.90. So I'd need to get off at Stratford then get the central line and district line to Whitechapel (Or Jubilee/DLR to Canary Wharf) to avoid tapping out at a zone 1 interchange and being charged almost double - that's a bit ridiculous isnt it?

Not really ridiculous at all, is it? The more expensive one is the via Zone 1 fare, the cheaper one is the avoiding Zone 1 fare. You pays your money and takes your choice...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

It's a week late then I originally heard, but still very good news. 0630 is still a reasonably late start up for shift workers, although once through running increases, it will certainly improve.

06:30 isn't quite accurate - the first services (currently in RTT as unadvertised) are 05:34 from Abbey Wood and 05:44 from Paddington. Obviously intermediate stations' first services will be a little later but even the first service from Paddington gets to Abbey Wood by 06:13.

 

[DC1989]

Not really ridiculous at all, is it? The more expensive one is the via Zone 1 fare, the cheaper one is the avoiding Zone 1 fare. You pays your money and takes your choice...

But I could change at Stratford to the Central line to Liverpool Street and not have to tap out to get the Lizzie line and therefore be charged the lesser fare.......

Secondly when phase 2 opens I could change at Liverpool Street without tapping out and be charged the lesser fare too

 

[NortholtPark]

TFL Journey planner (11:30 BST 4th May 2022) does not seem to recognise the Elizabeth Line opening.

For June 2nd ..
I tried Paddington to Farringdon and Paddington to Abbey Wood dummy enquiries and it still recommended
the Hammersmith and City Line for both.

 

[JonathanH]

06:30 isn't quite accurate - the first services (currently in RTT as unadvertised) are 05:34 from Abbey Wood and 05:44 from Paddington. Obviously intermediate stations' first services will be a little later but even the first service from Paddington gets to Abbey Wood by 06:13.

I would imagine that they have some scope to make STP amendments to the movements at the Plumstead end. Paddington obviously might be a little more difficult as it has to interact with the relief line timetable.

I imagine they could even run the first few trains empty each day, although that seems a little pointless.

 

[Class 466]

TFL Journey planner (11:30 BST 4th May 2022) does not seem to recognise the Elizabeth Line opening.

For June 2nd ..
I tried Paddington to Farringdon and Paddington to Abbey Wood dummy enquiries and it still recommended
the Hammersmith and City Line for both.

They have literally only just announced it. Give it a few days for downstream systems to reflect the fact.

 

[matt_world2004]

The line diagram seems unessescaryily complicated they could have just extended it a little further and vertical separation indicating Hayes was in zone 5 instead of s horizonal one

Also showing Heathrow as zone 6 is highly disengous given the premium fare.

 

[reddragon]

Unusual to have it on a Tuesday? Everyone was wrong xD

The plan was Tuesday 17th, so back 1 week.

 

[ctom_s]

But I could change at Stratford to the Central line to Liverpool Street and not have to tap out to get the Lizzie line and therefore be charged the lesser fare.......

Secondly when phase 2 opens I could change at Liverpool Street without tapping out and be charged the lesser fare too

I guess the point is, it would be the same regardless if crossrail existed at all (i.e if there was another route via Z1)

I don't know your exact route, but could you go via Canary Wharf for Example?

 

[Snow1964]

But I could change at Stratford to the Central line to Liverpool Street and not have to tap out to get the Lizzie line and therefore be charged the lesser fare.......

Secondly when phase 2 opens I could change at Liverpool Street without tapping out and be charged the lesser fare too

Technically you shouldn’t enter zone 1 if you are not buying zone 1 fare. Of course in longer term, could change at Whitechapel.

Don’t know if TfL still do it, but when I commuted into central London (few years ago now) there were revenue block teams that would periodically check tickets in various connecting passageways to catch those changing in zone 1 without a zone 1 ticket. I only ever saw them in morning rush hour which was obviously a lucrative time.

 

[matt_world2004]

Here's a fare question - I travel from the East to Abbey Wood for work. According to the TFL fare finder though, if I change at Liverpool Street the peak cost is £5.50 rather than £2.90. So I'd need to get off at Stratford then get the central line and district line to Whitechapel (Or Jubilee/DLR to Canary Wharf) to avoid tapping out at a zone 1 interchange and being charged almost double - that's a bit ridiculous isnt it?

If you change to the central line at Stratford and then to the Elizabeth line at Liverpool Street it will not be able to tell that you have not changed at Whitechapel therefore it would probably charge the avoiding zone 1 fare on oyster

There will be services to Whitechapel the moment the core opens so in theory you could do central from Stratford to mile end. Change for district to Whitechapel and crossrail from Whitechapel it's probably easier though changing to crossrail from Liverpool Street and unless there is a purple reader at Whitechapel just for a few months it is unlikely you would be charged the full zone 1 fare

 

[JamesT]

Also now being reported on the BBC, with the headline: Crossrail: Elizabeth line due to open on 24 May

Crossrail: Elizabeth line due to open on 24 May

The over-budget project was meant to open in December 2018 but will now begin running on 24 May.

www.bbc.co.uk

It says something about the intellect of the BBC's perceived audience that they feel the need to include a paragraph:

"It is hoped the Queen - who the line is named after - will be involved when the route begins to operate." [my emboldening].

It’s not actually that obvious that the line is named for our present Queen, there has been another Elizabeth. The Navy’s HMS Queen Elizabeth is named for a previous ship which in turn is named for Elizabeth I.

 

[hwl]

The plan was Tuesday 17th, so back 1 week.

Less surprising if you also think about what day the Northern line Bank Branch is meant to reopen...

Most buses services change on Sat. 21st May leaving a 3 day gap till CR opening.

 

[theking]

But I could change at Stratford to the Central line to Liverpool Street and not have to tap out to get the Lizzie line and therefore be charged the lesser fare.......

Who says you will pay the lesser fare?

If you go via whitechapel like you should to avoid zone one then you will have to touch the pink reader when you are interchanging from district/ H&C to crossrail

 

[matt_world2004]

Who says you will pay the lesser fare?

If you go via whitechapel like you should to avoid zone one then you will have to touch the pink reader when you are interchanging from district/ H&C to crossrail

Default route for Stratford to abbey wood is the avoiding zone 1 fare unless you pass a barrier at Liverpool Street

LT Fares - Oyster / Contactless Fare Calculator

Full details of all Oyster & Contactless single fares for London Underground, Overground, DLR, Elizabeth Line and National Rail services in the London area.

www.ltfares.com

 

[theking]

Default route for Stratford to abbey wood is the avoiding zone 1 fare unless you pass a barrier at Liverpool Street

LT Fares - Oyster / Contactless Fare Calculator

Full details of all Oyster & Contactless single fares for London Underground, Overground, DLR, Elizabeth Line and National Rail services in the London area.

www.ltfares.com

Ahh okay yeah then can see why the op would be frustrated with having to mess about with the central line even tho they're still going via zone one.

 

[DC1989]

Thanks for the replies everyone - it's a good discussion !

Who says you will pay the lesser fare?

Well you just would - I'm just using contactless and there's no barriers between (As far as I'm aware..?)

Technically you shouldn’t enter zone 1 if you are not buying zone 1 fare. Of course in longer term, could change at Whitechapel.

Don’t know if TfL still do it, but when I commuted into central London (few years ago now) there were revenue block teams that would periodically check tickets in various connecting passageways to catch those changing in zone 1 without a zone 1 ticket. I only ever saw them in morning rush hour which was obviously a lucrative time.

But surely most people now would just use contactless or an Oyster. I've never bought an actual ticket for getting the tube (I include the entire TFL network here DLR, TFL rail etc) in my life - I would have had no idea that I was doing something wrong if I did this

 

[matt_world2004]

Thanks for the replies everyone - it's a good discussion !



Well you just would - I'm just using contactless and there's no barriers between (As far as I'm aware..?)



But surely most people now would just use contactless or an Oyster. I've never bought an actual ticket for getting the tube (I include the entire TFL network here DLR, TFL rail etc) in my life - I would have had no idea that I was doing something wrong if I did this

Just don't pass barriers at Liverpool Street and you will be fine providing you touch in and out at the begining and end of your journey

This would involve changing to the central at Stratford and the Elizabeth at Liverpool Street. This is probably just as quick in itself than changing at Liverpool Street

 

[Horizon22]

Not really ridiculous at all, is it? The more expensive one is the via Zone 1 fare, the cheaper one is the avoiding Zone 1 fare. You pays your money and takes your choice...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==


06:30 isn't quite accurate - the first services (currently in RTT as unadvertised) are 05:34 from Abbey Wood and 05:44 from Paddington. Obviously intermediate stations' first services will be a little later but even the first service from Paddington gets to Abbey Wood by 06:13.

Well there's not what has been advertised, nor I don't think they are actually going to run as passenger services, but perhaps they will. Not sure it's completely up-to-date.

 

[Watershed]

But I could change at Stratford to the Central line to Liverpool Street and not have to tap out to get the Lizzie line and therefore be charged the lesser fare.......

Secondly when phase 2 opens I could change at Liverpool Street without tapping out and be charged the lesser fare too

Well yes, the default route assumes travel avoiding Zone 1. So if you don't touch out and in at any intermediate Zone 1 barriers, you won't be charged the Zone 1 premium. But you can hardly complain if you are charged the via Zone 1 fare for travelling via Zone 1! You can't have your cake and eat it.

I would imagine that they have some scope to make STP amendments to the movements at the Plumstead end. Paddington obviously might be a little more difficult as it has to interact with the relief line timetable.

I imagine they could even run the first few trains empty each day, although that seems a little pointless.

Of course - and services will need to be STP'd (or the LTP schedules split) to make them advertised. But as this timetable is what has been running during Trial Operations I would be surprised if the public timetable were different. I suppose there could be some slight changes to allow for longer engineering/testing access hours.

Also showing Heathrow as zone 6 is highly disengous given the premium fare.

There are multiple fare scales in operation across different modes, so the notion that the cost of Zone 1-6 trip may vary is hardly novel. I think it would be more unhelpful to say that special fares apply, as that might lead anyone who holds a Travelcard or is reliant upon capping to think that it's like the Heathrow/Gatwick Express or HS1 and carries its own uncapped standalone fare.

But either way this is unaffected by the opening of the Core section.

Technically you shouldn’t enter zone 1 if you are not buying zone 1 fare.

If travelling on Oyster/contactless, you can take whichever route you like; the system will automatically charge you the correct amount.

 

[snowball]

"It is hoped the Queen - who the line is named after - will be involved when the route begins to operate." [my emboldening].

Maybe people thought it was named after Elizabeth I, in whose reign it was originally due to open.

 

[mrmartin]

Any confirmation on if there will be 4G and/or WiFi in the tunnels at launch?

 

[Horizon22]

Maybe people thought it was named after Elizabeth I, in whose reign it was originally due to open.

 

[Mojo]

Any confirmation on if there will be 4G and/or WiFi in the tunnels at launch?

There isn’t any when I was last down there. The LU stations (Tottenham Court Rd, will be Bond St when it opens, to Whitechapel inclusive) do have the LU wifi on the stations.

 

[mrmartin]

There isn’t any when I was last down there. The LU stations (Tottenham Court Rd, will be Bond St when it opens, to Whitechapel inclusive) do have the LU wifi on the stations.

Hmm. That's a shame. It is still the plan to have 4G in the tunnels though?

 

[Starmill]

Well yes, the default route assumes travel avoiding Zone 1.

This of course could very well be changed after opening, if it's brought to their attention or is a commonly made journey.

 

[mrmartin]

This of course could very well be changed after opening, if it's brought to their attention or is a commonly made journey.

But wouldn't the preferred way to do it would be via Whitechapel once everything is open anyway? Go one stop from Stratford, over the other side of the platform and rejoin to Abbey Wood. It's only s temporary period where going via zone 1 would be "better" anyway.

 

[matt_world2004]

They would likely keep the avoiding zone 1 fare as the default fare for travel to abbey wood from stratford.

1.) its only a few months where circulating via liverpool street is quicker
2.) there is already precedent where it iss quicker to circulate via a more expensive station and still be charged a cheaper fare : It is almost always quicker to travel to Brentwood via Shenfield From liverpool street and you get charged a cheaper fare.

 

[BahrainLad]

Why on earth doesn’t it have 4G/5G in the tunnels and the platforms!?