[Speculative] An idea for standardised PCV Drivers Pay

[RT4038]

Just saying but the Scottish government seem to have an appetite for nationalisation of bus services as part of there ambitions in being “green”, that’s good enough for me as a long term prospect.

They may well do, but that is not happening now and is still no guarantee that services will be maintained at their current level, or that subsidies will be used to improve staff terms and conditions.

Buses carry millions of people every year, more than trains carry, I doubt it isn’t something which is going to be important for the future.

They may well do, but they don't carry the movers & shakers. If buses become important in the future, then services can be started up and/or improved. In the meantime it is a downward trajectory and no substantive improvement to bus workers terms and conditions.

Because car ownership has became the ultimate in convenience, However, it will be challenged in Years to come, Low Emission Zones & proposed workplace parking charges are only the tip of the iceberg, irregardless of where the objections come from, if it was even good enough for people to choose a cheaper car or even no car many moons ago why can’t that be a way forward for us, therefore helping to financially protect a local bus service, helping to subsidies consistent lower fares on buses as well as protecting 1000s of bus driver jobs across the country.

But we are dealing with the now position, and right now most car owners / users (I suspect the voting majority) have pretty much no need for buses at all. Good luck with changing that. Not sure why we need to protect bus driver jobs when clearly few want these jobs and there are plenty of other jobs to go to.

The industry could be doing with less operators and the workload of services required consolidated to fewer nationalised operations.

Not sure what real difference this would make at all. In the 60s and 70s the bus industry was largely nationalised, beset with staff shortages, and a continual complaint about poor terms and conditions. But Government kept these terms and conditions down as a matter of policy, to keep fares and subsidies low. Why would you think that this kind of policy wouldn't be followed now, especially that buses are no longer the essential and necessary service as they were much more then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2022 ==

Quite.

Pennine buses, whilst not a large company, ran most of the town network around Skipton.

They ran down their business with plenty of notice rather than bankrupting.

Transdev continued running the service they'd been in competition with them on.

Most of the other routes saw council minibuses a couple of times a day Monday to Friday replace hourly services Monday to Saturday.

None run at times suitable for a 9-5 worker in the town centre (or anyone else who worked a full shift).

It is not a position that I like at all, but sadly the reality (as I see it anyway!). Suspect there is still some way down on this one.

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm starting to think the OP chose the wrong career and would have been happier in the civil service. Then again, the grass is always greener....

 

[Stan Drews]

In Scotland the government (via Transport Scotland) is currently providing additional support for bus services through NSG Plus (Network Support Grant). However, that is only expected to continue until late summer. From then, all operators will be on their own, and with passenger numbers generally around 75-80%, there is likely to be a considerable amount of service reductions and cancellations. The number of services that will produce a healthy profit is likely to quite limited, so the prospect of any significant staff pay increases being funded from the farebox will be tough. If it isn’t coming from the farebo, where will it come from?

More information on NSG can be found at the following link.

Network Support Grant | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

In Scotland the government (via Transport Scotland) is currently providing additional support for bus services through NSG Plus (Network Support Grant). However, that is only expected to continue until late summer. From then, all operators will be on their own, and with passenger numbers generally around 75-80%, there is likely to be a considerable amount of service reductions and cancellations. The number of services that will produce a healthy profit is likely to quite limited, so the prospect of any significant staff pay increases being funded from the farebox will be tough. If it isn’t coming from the farebo, where will it come from?

More information on NSG can be found at the following link.

Network Support Grant | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

First Glasgow has already proposed a wage increase to £13 per hour for many on the last pay deal, will they back track on this? only time will tell.

When you say ridership is around 75-80% of what it was pre-covid, is that such a bad thing? I mean many operators are having to choose reduced operating frequencies anyways due to a staff shortage, surely those reductions in frequencies have already met some of the reductions in ridership you mention from pre-covid levels.

 

[Stan Drews]

First Glasgow has already proposed a wage increase to £13 per hour for many on the last pay deal, will they back track on this? only time will tell.

When you say ridership is around 75-80% of what it was pre-covid, is that such a bad thing? I mean many operators are having to choose reduced operating frequencies anyways due to a staff shortage, surely those reductions in frequencies have already met some of the reductions in ridership you mention from pre-covid levels.

It’s a bad thing for any business to lose 25% of their revenue! Many of the current service levels are indeed adequate for the number of passengers travelling, but profits have certainly been significantly impacted.
The days of multi million pound profits are long gone, and as many of the re-regulation brigade seem to be basing all their calculations on using them, it’s not going to end well. Private operators will naturally use the resources they have available to run the most popular routes, so less popular routes will suffer, unless their is funding available to support them. If operations become public controlled (without any significant funding increase), then the resources will be spread thinly to ensure every box is ticked, but more passengers will probably suffer as the core routes will not run frequently enough.

 

[RT4038]

First Glasgow has already proposed a wage increase to £13 per hour for many on the last pay deal, will they back track on this? only time will tell.

When you say ridership is around 75-80% of what it was pre-covid, is that such a bad thing? I mean many operators are having to choose reduced operating frequencies anyways due to a staff shortage, surely those reductions in frequencies have already met some of the reductions in ridership you mention from pre-covid levels.

So to sum up, in post #56 you say that buses are an important and essential public service, but by # 64 a service reduction to 75-80% is no bad thing. That essential?

That just about reflects the public attitude towards buses!

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

So to sum up, in post #56 you say that buses are an important and essential public service, but by # 64 a service reduction to 75-80% is no bad thing. That essential?

That just about reflects the public attitude towards buses!

To the people that it’s a necessity for, absolutely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 May 2022 ==

It’s a bad thing for any business to lose 25% of their revenue! Many of the current service levels are indeed adequate for the number of passengers travelling, but profits have certainly been significantly impacted.

I don’t care about the “business” part, like I say funding should be made available but in a constructive way that does not make a private owner wealthy using the public money and subsidies if they operate a public service.

The days of multi million pound profits are long gone, and as many of the re-regulation brigade seem to be basing all their calculations on using them, it’s not going to end well.

So hopefully the time is nearing where they’ll sell up and move out? Nah, like you say they’ll whittle everything down to maintain there deep pockets as much as possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 May 2022 ==

Private operators will naturally use the resources they have available to run the most popular routes, so less popular routes will suffer, unless their is funding available to support them. If operations become public controlled (without any significant funding increase), then the resources will be spread thinly to ensure every box is ticked.

And if it comes to this point and it’s severe enough it will be the final straw for any private business operating a bus company as well as any remaining rep they have left.

This is the prime time where we need change to protect the routes which have already been trashed over years of going looking for profit.

but more passengers will probably suffer as the core routes will not run frequently enough.

Unless you increase vehicle capacity on those routes, there is not a large wait between a 10 & 15 minute service.

However, over the previous 10 year many operations in Scotland at least have pursued buying smaller models with frequencies as high as possible.