Positive things about Voyagers.....

[SprinterMan]

Hi all,
I am travelling EUS-BNG soon, which I presume will be Voyager worked. I have never been on one before, and everyone on this site, and everyone in general seems to dislike them. Is there anything good or positive about these trains (specifically Virgin's 221s).
Thanks in advance.....

 

[TomJ93]

Hi all,
I am travelling EUS-BNG soon, which I presume will be Voyager worked. I have never been on one before, and everyone on this site, and everyone in general seems to dislike them. Is there anything good or positive about these trains (specifically Virgin's 221s).
Thanks in advance.....

If you get a good seat, with a table you have a plug socket, plenty of leg room, a lovely window, free wi-fi and an ok shop. They are pretty quick of the mark and the tilt is great fun. I like Voyagers, even though they're affectionately known as tins by my friends and I.

 

[Hydro]

If you get a good seat, with a table

...akin to saying if you get all numbers up on the lottery you become a millionaire. Technically possible but the odds are against you



(tongue in cheek!)

 

[ainsworth74]

I am travelling EUS-BNG soon, which I presume will be Voyager worked.

[Offtopic]I nearly went to Uni in Bangor, its a nice place if a bit hilly for my tastes![/Offtopic]

You presume right it will be Voyager worked. As for positives about Voyagers well there aren't all that many. They are reliable, which you know is nice. But after that I'm struggling. Really for me it depends on the loadings if the train isn't overcrowded then they're all right (could be better of course without the underfloor noise). Problem is they tend to be regularly overcrowded due to their shortness (5 cars on Virgin) and Voyagers are not well set up to deal with overcrowding. Otherwise they're just like any other DMU really...

 

[Daimler]

This could be a short thread!

In fairness to them, they have excellent, large windows - perhaps bigger than on any other train on the network. Of course, this is countered by the poor seat/window alignment, but if you're lucky you can have a really great view of the scenery. The acceleration's pretty good too.

 

[tbtc]

On a quiet journey, the ride is good - they are nippy, they have decent legroom, plugs etc.

The main problem is length. They aren't long enough for the routes they do - but if this was sorted out then the long list of problems other people rant about wouldn't be as noticeable (e.g. seats don't match up to windows on every class of unit)

Just book a seat reservation

 

[TomJ93]

I got a conjoined tin at Coventry during the Reading blockade, everyone went to the closest set leaving me in a carriage almost on my own. Had a lovely table seat with a window slap bang in the middle of the coach.

Shame I was only going to Leamington!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On a quiet journey, the ride is good - they are nippy, they have decent legroom, plugs etc.

The main problem is length. They aren't long enough for the routes they do - but if this was sorted out then the long list of problems other people rant about wouldn't be as noticeable (e.g. seats don't match up to windows on every class of unit)

Just book a seat reservation

I think all the problems they suffer from could be fixed when an overhaul is due, new carriages, changing of the window alignments (was going to say add tables but XC have been taking them away). The luggage space wouldn't be an issue if the Tins ran any other route, unfortunately the XC route serves many airports and sea side towns which means alot of luggage!

Sadly Arriva seem to be making them worse, the luggage area is a terrible idea and terribly executed,

 

[chris89]

I actually don't mind them well the VT ones (Not XC)

First tilting train i went on . Nice leg room if you have got a Prioirty Seat, or one of the ones in Quite coach, Very good view if you have a window seat.

Not to far to the shop car for walking, and very quick i have found. My personal dislikes Frequently breaking resevation system :mad: and to short for the BHM-EDB/Glasgow & Routes. & forgot to add lack of luggage space.

Chris

 

[BrummyBoy]

I actually quite like them, comfy seats, big spacious windows and quick off the mark, only problem is, as everyone else says is there too short and as a result often crowded

 

[route:oxford]

Reliability and speed.

Under 4 hours from Birmingham to Edinburgh/Glasgow is what really matters to me. Before they were introduced, the only sensible way to travel from Oxford to Edinburgh was via London, nowadays that would be nonsensical.

(Faster still, of course, would be a Virgin Voyager Hybrid DEMU operating via a re-opened E-W link from Oxford to Glasgow. 4h45m Perhaps?)

 

[Ivo]

Speed yes; reliability though? 22x units probably have some of the worst records for post-privatisation stock out there! Few days go by without a Voyager failing somewhere, usually in a highly inconvenient location such as Ashchurch or Dunbar. I have to say though, my only VWC experience of a Voyager was the (technically disallowed) Haymarket to Waverley, so I stand to be corrected.

 

[Greenback]

Personally, and based on my travelling down to the West Country, I find them more comfortable than FGW HST's. The reason for this is that they seem less claustrophobic and the seats seem to cause me less discomfort on journeys of more than an hour or so.

Having said that, they are probably a different kettl;e of fish on the core sections where they can be overcrowded.

 

[me123]

I've always said that they're good trains, plagued by small (but pretty significant) design flaws. Add a couple of extra coaches and take away the smells and you've actually got a very good trains. Comfortable seats (although I appreciate that this is debatable!), good sized windows, speedy acceleration, fast and tilting (on the WCML anyway).

 

[Patrick]

Only positives I can think of are the tilt function and the speed, everything else is dreadful. They are cramped, uncomfortable, loud, rattly, have no legroom, they're too short and the reserved booking system never works so you always end up being kicked out of your seat if you find a good one. Oh and they're so ugly.

One of the worst trains to ever operate in Britain.

 

[tbtc]

have no legroom

Really?

I find them quite generous (I'm 6' 1")

 

[Patrick]

Really?

I find them quite generous (I'm 6' 1")

I'm 6'4 so It'll probably be worse for me than most people, but whenever I'm at a table I can't stretch my legs out at all because they nearly touch the person in front's, and if I'm not at a table my knees will undoubtedly be touching the seat in front.

 

[devon_metro]

I'd say legroom probably appears quite decent due to the rather upright seat pitch which, from my perspective is bloody uncomfortable on a long-ish journey.

Legroom is pitiful compared to a FGW hst.

 

[chris89]

Im only 5ft 11"/ just 6ft, and the leg room really depends for me, If a normal seat it does get uncomfy, but if a table or Prioity seat plently enough, better the 158s.

I've 'touch wood' Haven't been on one that has broken down, only the computers glitch and no resevations :@.

 

[asylumxl]

I like 22x series trains. They have good acceleration, high top speed, large windows, decent seats (the 222 seats are vastly superior though) and good ride quality.

I can't say I've ever been on a smelly one, you know what people say, it only smells as bas what people put in it. The noise doesn't bother me at all and I think it's grossly exagerated. As for pillar seats, most trains have them nowadays. If it's busy, a seat is a seat, but I'm a commuter so maybe I feel differently to most.

Atleast, since rail enthusiasts dislike them in general, it means more seats for other passenger ..

 

[Lampshade]

222s are better trains in every possible way. The problem I find with Voyagers (and Pendolinos for that matter) are the seats, they're so high they make airline seats extremely claustrophobic, so try to get a table seat. The luggage racks are also opaque as opposed to transparent on Desiros and 222s which gives the impression of a low ceiling.

 

[Ivo]

In terms of legroom it really depends on the seats with Voyagers more than the person. Unless you are something like 5'0", then you will not get decent legroom when on a table seat unless you carefully slot your legs between or around the person opposite, whilst avoiding the leg (I can usually do the former but bang my leg repeatedly! - also applies on 357s, on which I almost always get a table); needless to say, this can get quite messy! You don't want to accidentally slot yourself between a young girl's legs unless you fancy a date in court...! As for standard airline-style seating, they are actually reasonable, but not to HST standards.

Oh, and for the record, I am also 6'1".

 

[MCR247]

If Voyagers were all 10 carriages long, this thread wouldn't be full of people complaining.

 

[mumrar]

Speed yes; reliability though? 22x units probably have some of the worst records for post-privatisation stock out there!.......so I stand to be corrected.

Get ready to be corrected then.

In 2009 XC won Golden Spanner award for the category that 221s for post privatisation DMU and also the Silver Spanner for 220s as the most improved fleet versus 2008 figures.

In 2010 CrossCountry took the Golden Spanner for the Class 220 fleet as being the most reliable post privatisation DMU.

You could evidently, in terms of talking the 'here and now', not be more wrong.

 

[Failed Unit]

I would also say it has bigger windows that a pendo. As murmur states XC 220s would top the IC category if they were in it. Better than the 91s, HSTs and Pendo's

 

[Pumbaa]

They're good. The VT ones are better looked aftre than the XC ones. Head to coach D, if its not a peak-time service, as thats the sometimes First Class sometimes Standard coach. All line up to windows (apart from two I think) and all have table and sockets. The ride is good, they're nippy and the crew are friendly.

Enjoy your journey.

 

[sprinterguy]

The redeeming features of Voyagers have already been elaborated on in this thread, but for the sake of personal balance, given that I fall firmly into the camp that dislike Voyagers, what I like about them is their impressive acceleration and large windows. The interior seat and floor fabric has proved to be very hardwearing over the ten years they’ve been in service, and they have pleasantly “mellow” levels of lighting. And I’m with mumrar in saying that they are very reliable trains, especially compared to the old loco hauled operation. I’ve been on a couple of sickly Voyagers, but that’s more a mark of how often I travel on them than of any form of unreliability.

It’s not enough to make them a good train in my eyes in comparison to all their faults, and the 222s are a marked improvement, but they’re not all bad!

 

[387star]

What affects me having a pleasent journey on them is that due to the lack of luggage space (even on XC because noone is told where the acres of luggage space is) people continually walk up and down the carriage with baggage in tow. This is very uncomfortable on the cramped aisle seats. Btw I think XC have actually reduced legroom on some seats.

Anyway back to the positives...

I've grown to become quite fond of the initial 'beep... beep beep' beep... beep beep' and then the vibration as the train 'takes off'. I love how fast these trains zoom through St Denys in Southampton.

Sometimes these trains can be very quiet. Sadly when climbing hills or adhering to signals (slowing and accelerating) the noise becomes very notable and is unacceptable for the journeys they cover IMO. I did remember they were trying to fix the niggles like the vibrations some years ago.

 

[tbtc]

If Voyagers were all 10 carriages long, this thread wouldn't be full of people complaining.

Agreed.

One of the biggest problems with Voyagers (apart from the length) is that they directly replaced the last significant loco-hauled services. The criticism about “seats not lining up with windows” etc can be applied to other classes, but we don’t hear criticism of Turbostars for doing that because they only replaced 158s, so enthusiasts aren’t as precious.

Even if Voyagers had been ten coaches long (10 x 20 metre coaches would be about as long as eight or nine 23 metre coaches?), people would be unhappy with any DMU replacing the 47s and 86s that ran on those routes before.

You also have to bear in mind that when Voyagers were specified, the mood was for shorter trains. Two car 170s from Derby/Nottingham to London? Five car 180s replacing HSTs on the GWML? 170s from Hull/ Norwich to London. We know now that there would be growth, that demand would rise significantly, but the Voyagers weren’t the only shorter trains to be introduced at that time. However, the other units have either been extended (Midland Mainline extended the 170s to three car) or cascaded to more suitable duties (180s seem fine for Hull Trains etc).

 

[mumrar]

They're good. The VT ones are better looked aftre than the XC ones.

You see, it's misinformation like this which can do enthusiast forums such as this a disservice. Why, in the face of facts that XCs 221s in 2009 and XCs 220s in 2010 being the most reliable post privatisation DMUs in the country, would you say what you've said?

It is blatantly not true for one.

 

[YorkshireBear]

i enjoy them, i travelled manchester plymouth on one the other day (change at newstreet) and had no problems at all.... admittedly i had a lovely table window seat and it was 5:12 from picaddily on a saturday morning so the load was tiny