Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

[Bletchleyite]

I'd go along with that from a "looks right" perspective, but it would be almost impossible to see from (for instance) inside a train in darkness. Not everyone has a smartphone and when the PIS is not working, I find it good to know where we've stopped.

It really wouldn't. If it was, that format would not be used by:

• DB
• SNCF
• SNCB/NMBS
• SBB
• OeBB
• NS
• I *think* Canada
• SercoNedNorthern
• London Midland (pre LNR), that was white on black but the same idea
• Network Rail
• ......

It is as if it was a global standard for railway signage, or certainly a European one...

 

[Goldfish62]

It really wouldn't. If it was, that format would not be used by:

• DB
• SNCF
• SNCB/NMBS
• SBB
• OeBB
• NS
• I *think* Canada
• SercoNedNorthern
• London Midland (pre LNR), that was white on black but the same idea
• Network Rail
• ......

It is as if it was a global standard for railway signage, or certainly a European one...

Add SWR, PkP and CD to that list.

 

[Grumpy Git]

It really wouldn't. If it was, that format would not be used by:

• DB
• SNCF
• SNCB/NMBS
• SBB
• OeBB
• NS
• I *think* Canada
• SercoNedNorthern
• London Midland (pre LNR), that was white on black but the same idea
• Network Rail
• ......

It is as if it was a global standard for railway signage, or certainly a European one...

They're all misguided, (dons tin-foil hat). Style over substance, yes they look stylish, but dark on light is better.

If that were the case (light coloured letters over a dark backgound), then all safety notices would be yellow writing on a black backgound (rather than the universally accepted black on yellow).

 

[krus_aragon]

If you need any proof, they've also just done the same with 'Great British Nuclear'.

I saw this name earlier (on this thread, I think) and thought it was in jest. Only now, on digging further, have I found that it's serious.

I guess when Wylfa B is build then there'll be some corner of an Anglesey field that will be forever plastered with union flags...

 

[Gareth]

What a strange comment.

 

[HSTEd]

The easiest way to guarantee readibility at night would be to use retroreflective coatings, like those used on road signs.

When I've been waiting at a roadside at night, I was able to read a road sign on the far side of the road using the screen glow of my smartphone (not even the torch) - with the lights inside the train they'd be lit up like a christmass tree.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The easiest way to guarantee readibility at night would be to use retroreflective coatings, like those used on road signs.

When I've been waiting at a roadside at night, I was able to read a road sign on the far side of the road using the screen glow of my smartphone (not even the torch) - with the lights inside the train they'd be lit up like a christmass tree.

Good point. Most road signage is not black on white (only "local" signage is) though to be fair there is an eyesight requirement for driving.

 

[Buntobox]

It's the name of the island ffs. "Great" means "large", not "very good".

The Tories, particularly this present mob of throwbacks, have long since co-opted the "great" in "Great Britain" to mean "very good"...and its xenophobic, imperialist undertones make me want to vomit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==

Then why was the old version called British Railways, not Great British Railways, and why the change now for the new version if British Railways worked?

Agreed. I will not be dignifying this jingoistic claptrap by using that name if it comes up in conversation. For me, the organisation will be called, simply, British Railways.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Tories, particulary this present mob of throwbacks, have long since co-opted the "great" in "Great Britain" to mean "very good"...and it's xenophobic, imperialist undertones me me want to vomit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==


Agreed. I will not be dignifying this jingoistic claptrap by using that name if it comes up in conversation. For me, the organisation will be called, simply, British Railways.

Indeed. Their small mindedness does not seem to make realise that Great Britain is called thus simply because it's the largest island in the archipelago that is the British Isles.

 

[Buntobox]

I personally like this Lion logo posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago
View attachment 96490

https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/912009372292780033

That was one of the early attempts at a new BR logo in 1964 which was rejected in favour of the double arrow we know today. This and other early ideas are in the book 'British Rail Design 1948 -94'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==

Not at all. The pleasure's all mine. The Union Jack will represent our country until the day you die and many years beyond.

 

[MattRat]

The Tories, particulary this present mob of throwbacks, have long since co-opted the "great" in "Great Britain" to mean "very good"...and its xenophobic, imperialist undertones make me want to vomit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==


Agreed. I will not be dignifying this jingoistic claptrap by using that name if it comes up in conversation. For me, the organisation will be called, simply, British Railways.

Not the terms I would have used but I see where you might get that impression. I just see the thing as extremely surface level. Wrap yourself up in the flag and sing rule Brittania.

But that doesn't achieve anything. It doesn't make the railways actually good, and it doesn't show to the world a world leading country, it shows us as a fashion statement looking for attention, meanwhile other countries are busy being actual countries, doing things to actually be proud of, like Swiss rail. Now there's a system others can look up to.

 

[krus_aragon]

Swiss rail. Now there's a system others can look up to.

Yeah, but forcing people to do so by putting it on a mountain is hardly sporting.

 

[Buntobox]

Heh. Sadly cream on modern stock looks quite bad, or I suspect one incarnation of GWR might have tried it... white might work ok instead.

I understand what you mean and I agree with you. I'm just not sure why that is. It must have something to do with culture and belief about what constitutes 'modern' rather than be an absolute of existence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2022 ==

Not the terms I would have used but I see where you might get that impression. I just see the thing as extremely surface level. Wrap yourself up in the flag and sing rule Brittania.

But that doesn't achieve anything. It doesn't make the railways actually good, and it doesn't show to the world a world leading country, it shows us as a fashion statement looking for attention, meanwhile other countries are busy being actual countries, doing things to actually be proud of, like Swiss rail. Now there's a system others can look up to.

When I use the railways in the UK, I always have a lingering notion that my train will be late or cancelled or a connection will be missed. When I'm in Switzerland, those thoughts never occur to me and the SBB has never once let me down in over thirty years. Mind you, they've rebuilt or replaced everything they've got since about 1975 and their improvement programme is still running. Every time I'm there I see a new tunnel; a new or improved station while double tracking and four-tracking are common. It has probably broken the trillion Swiss Franc mark by now but it's bought them a magnificent system that works close to flawlessly and of which the Swiss population is justifiably proud.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Swiss style would be nice, British society & culture wouldn't allow this as we for example don't have direct democracy as in Switzerland...

- - - - - - -

Which of these likely would happen when GBR becomes active anyone think?

1 - Full rebrand of all English rolling stock into single GBR livery

2 - Current TOCs continue as concessions with same liveries however with GBR logos stuck on somewhere or small wordmarks such as "EMR working for GBR"

3 - Current TOCs reduced into fewer sectors within GBR similar to RR and NSE. "Intercity" brand reintroduced for GW, MML, WCML, ECML, TP, GE and HS1, HS2 replacing Avanti WC and LNER etc

HS1 and HS2 could be "Intercity Highspeed"


Personally I think number 2 is most likely how this govt likes to cut costs (like smart motorways over building a fourth lane) and little regard for passenger comfort (ironing boards) how expensive it would be to rebrand every TOC into an uniform single GBR.

 

[py_megapixel]

this is a very good example of how it can work, credit to Dispatcher on the Stour on Twitter

I'd say that's far from a "very good example". It's the worst we've seen so far (with the exception of the nasty vinyling over the existing signs that smaller Northern stations have had)

The station name is in RA2 but "West Midlands Railway" isn't. "City of" is entirely superfluous - what other Wolverhampton is it going to be confused with? The colours and shapes seem like they were chosen at random - they just don't work, and it certainly doesn't follow the design guidlines. And what the picture doesn't show is that there is a load of other signage at Wolverhampton done in a different font, for no apparent reason, so it's not even consistent.

Yuck.

 

[InkyScrolls]

If Scotland leaves the UK it must become British Rail as Britain is defined as just England & Wales!

Incorrect: Britain and Great Britain are synonymous, referring to either the largest island of the British Isles (in a geographical context) or the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (in a political context).

 

[muddythefish]

Incorrect: Britain and Great Britain are synonymous, referring to either the largest island of the British Isles (in a geographical context) or the countries of England, Scotland and Wales (in a political context).

Correct. Great Britain (or just Britain) is the mainland of England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom is defined clearly on the passport ..... the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The British Isles in my old school geography books included the island of Ireland but I wouldn't have said that in my recent visit to the country!

 

[Goldfish62]

Correct. Great Britain (or just Britain) is the mainland of England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom is defined clearly on the passport ..... the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The British Isles in my old school geography books included the island of Ireland but I wouldn't have said that in my recent visit to the country!

Correct.

The British Isles is a the collection of European islands consisting of Great Britain, the island of Ireland, Isle of Man and the northern islands that are part of Scotland.

Great Britain is so named because it's the largest by far of those islands and consists of England, Wales and Scotland.

 

[py_megapixel]

The British Isles is a the collection of European islands consisting of Great Britain, the island of Ireland, Isle of Man and the northern islands that are part of Scotland.

And the Isle of Wight

 

[zwk500]

And the Isle of Wight

And Anglesey, and Lindisfarne, and Portsea Island... There's rather a lot to list if you want to do it completely!

 

[eldomtom2]

Swiss style would be nice, British society & culture wouldn't allow this as we for example don't have direct democracy as in Switzerland...

- - - - - - -

Which of these likely would happen when GBR becomes active anyone think?

1 - Full rebrand of all English rolling stock into single GBR livery

2 - Current TOCs continue as concessions with same liveries however with GBR logos stuck on somewhere or small wordmarks such as "EMR working for GBR"

3 - Current TOCs reduced into fewer sectors within GBR similar to RR and NSE. "Intercity" brand reintroduced for GW, MML, WCML, ECML, TP, GE and HS1, HS2 replacing Avanti WC and LNER etc

HS1 and HS2 could be "Intercity Highspeed"


Personally I think number 2 is most likely how this govt likes to cut costs (like smart motorways over building a fourth lane) and little regard for passenger comfort (ironing boards) how expensive it would be to rebrand every TOC into an uniform single GBR.

I think if 2 happened, it would definitely involve all TOC logos etc. being replaced with GBR ones.

 

[Goldfish62]

And Anglesey, and Lindisfarne, and Portsea Island... There's rather a lot to list if you want to do it completely!

And of course the thousands of smaller islands dotted around the coastline!

 

[reddragon]

There are conflicting view on Britain versus Great Britain. Historic fact is that Roman Britain was England & Wales and the name Great Britain was adopted once Scotland joined, even though today we may refer of GB as just Britain.

The UK, Britain, Great Britain, The British Isles, England - what's the difference?

A commonly mistake to make, but one that can easily upset the locals! Read about the differences between Britain, the…

www.historic-uk.com

Great Britain is not a country; it’s a landmass. It is known as ‘Great’ because it is the largest island in the British Isles, and houses the countries of England, Scotland and Wales within its shores.

The name Britain derives from the Roman word Britannia, but there are two conflicting arguments about why the ‘Great’ was stuck on the front of it. The first is that it is used to distinguish Britain from its similar sounding, but much smaller French neighbour, Brittany. The second reason is due to the ego of a certain King James I, who wanted to make it abundantly clear that he wasn’t just the king of the old Roman Britain (which only included England and some of Wales), but of the entire island; thus he referred to himself as King of Great Britain.