• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

billio

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2012
Messages
576
I personally do not think there should be a standard livery across the network on the grounds that regional identity would be lost. I would rather that operations were branded similar to how they are now, but with a few changes compared with the existing TOC areas as follows:
  • Avanti merged with LNWR to form a GNWR brand.
  • Cross Country merged with EMT to form a brand called Midland Connect.
  • WMT (operationally separate from LNWR by this point) brand to be used additionally on XC services to Nottingham and Leicester (stopper only).
  • Great Northern split, with the Moorgate services becoming part of the London Overground brand and the Kings Lynn route becoming part of the LNER brand.
  • Chiltern Railways renamed as Chiltern & Oxbridge, with brand used on all planned EWR services in addition to those from London Marylebone.
  • Northern and TPE split into separate Northwest and Northeast brands.
  • All HS2 and NPR services to be branded as Intercity Express.
  • All other brands (SE, Southern, Thameslink, SWR, GWR, TfW, Merseyrail, Overground, Crossrail, GA, c2c, Scotrail) remain as they are.
Northen should split into 'Lancashire and Yorkshire' for the southern part and retain 'Northern' for the northern part.
 

Gareth

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2011
Messages
1,505
I think it looks nice and adds some pizazz to the sign. I suppose you think the Network Rail station circles look ridiculous?

It doesn't really work for me either, to be honest.
 
Last edited:

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,256
Location
Liverpool
If a sign where nearly half the logo is cropped "works", all I can say is god help us all.

Pizazz, more like pfffttt!

I work in an industry where clear and concise labelling and signage is essential (death could easily result in case of a mix-up), but still the marketing departments make my life a misery for the sake of an ounce of common sense.
 

LOL The Irony

Established Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
Northen should split into 'Lancashire and Yorkshire' for the southern part and retain 'Northern' for the northern part.
Northern was, and continues to be, split into east and west side, so it makes sense to split them vertically. Horizontally would still result in the east west split.
It does really work for me either, to be honest.
If a sign where nearly half the logo is cropped "works", all I can say is god help us all.

Pizazz, more like pfffttt!
It makes the sign look more interesting, so why not have it?
 

Gareth

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2011
Messages
1,505
Because, like I said, it doesn't work. Either incorporate the whole thing or leave it out entirely.
 

MattRat

On Moderation
Joined
26 May 2021
Messages
2,129
Location
Liverpool
I think it looks nice and adds some pizazz to the sign. I suppose you think the Network Rail station circles look ridiculous?
When someone says pizazz, I think pizza, especially when someone also mentions circles. But it got me thinking about a sign that looks like one. A circle with little circles in with flags of each of the four nations, or even more if we include places like Cornwall.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,256
Location
Liverpool
Northern was, and continues to be, split into east and west side, so it makes sense to split them vertically. Horizontally would still result in the east west split.


It makes the sign look more interesting, so why not have it?

It doesnt need to be more interesting. It needs to inform a passenger that this is indeed (and without doubt) the railway station at (in this case) Milton Keynes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Because, like I said, it doesn't work. Either incorporate the whole thing or leave it out entirely.

You need to edit the original post #753, (you said it does work - which I now realise was a typo).
 

LOL The Irony

Established Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
It doesnt need to be more interesting. It needs to inform a passenger that this is indeed (and without doubt) the railway station at (in this case) Milton Keynes.
It's already done that, so why not make it more interesting? Look at it like this, ASEA could've gotten away with putting square or rectangular bodyside windows on the loco in your profile picture, but made a stylistic choice to make them circular. I suppose you like the current black and white 1 minute in photoshop signs we currently have?
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,256
Location
Liverpool
It's already done that, so why not make it more interesting? Look at it like this, ASEA could've gotten away with putting square or rectangular bodyside windows on the loco in your profile picture, but made a stylistic choice to make them circular. I suppose you like the current black and white 1 minute in photoshop signs we currently have?

The unadulterated classic BR "double-arrow" has style by the bucket load. Cropping it as in the above is the style equivalent of Tracy Emin's bed.
 

LOL The Irony

Established Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
The unadulterated classic BR "double-arrow" has style by the bucket load. Cropping it as in the above is the style equivalent of Tracy Emin's bed.
It's been cropped, not daubed with names of former partners. Stop acting like it's cultural vandalism. If you want some actual cultural vandalism to shout at, look up the Mappin & Webb building in London.
 

Rhydgaled

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
4,862
It looks ridiculous with the cropped double-arrow.
I wouldn't go as far as ridiculous, but it doesn't look right to me either. I really liked it at first glance (the faded blue colour really works) but then I noticed part of the double-arrow logo was missing and went right off it.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
18,889
The unadulterated classic BR "double-arrow" has style by the bucket load. Cropping it as in the above is the style equivalent of Tracy Emin's bed.
Agreed. And it’s also on the bottom line under the station name. It doesn’t need to be there twice (arguably it doesn’t need to be there at all): the point of a station nameboard is to communicate quickly where you are. Extra elements detract from that requirement.
 

Chiltern006

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
809
this is a very good example of how it can work, credit to Dispatcher on the Stour on Twitter
 

Attachments

  • 72D22CB6-939F-42A5-82F9-DFEFA9AD7BF4.jpeg
    72D22CB6-939F-42A5-82F9-DFEFA9AD7BF4.jpeg
    409.4 KB · Views: 134

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
20,377
Ultimately from a utilitarian perspective, why do we need a logo?

Will people not realise they're on a train?

I'd suggest if we want to add extra stuff to a railway station sign, the station code letters (KGX, LIV, MAN etc) would be a better choice.

And maybe retroreflective lettering to ensure the sign is always easily visible with light spilling from the train windows.
 

cr767055

Member
Joined
27 Mar 2020
Messages
177
Location
Midlands
In conclusion, these are the options I've come up with.

1649699498900.png

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I'd suggest if we want to add extra stuff to a railway station sign, the station code letters (KGX, LIV, MAN etc) would be a better choice.

1649699604060.png

(one of them with the station code)
 

Gareth

Established Member
Joined
10 Mar 2011
Messages
1,505
The navy one would work best for platform signage and put us in line with most other countries (in Europe, at least). Navy on white could be used for other applications, such as print media.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
Whilst those are all much better looking that the utterly bland stuff that is actually being deployed, let's not forget that readability and accessibility was a key factor in the design we did get - adding lots of additional symbols and smaller text is not going to help with that. The last options of the bottom two rows in the first picture are about as far as I think you'd want to push it, but I think that the first two options in those rows are fine
 

cr767055

Member
Joined
27 Mar 2020
Messages
177
Location
Midlands
Whilst those are all much better looking that the utterly bland stuff that is actually being deployed, let's not forget that readability and accessibility was a key factor in the design we did get - adding lots of additional symbols and smaller text is not going to help with that. The last options of the bottom two rows in the first picture are about as far as I think you'd want to push it, but I think that the first two options in those rows are fine

I personally think using a mix of the first one on the last row, and the second one on the first row would be sensible with accessibility in mind.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,256
Location
Liverpool
Bottom right looks good to me. Features all the colours too.

I'd go along with that from a "looks right" perspective, but it would be almost impossible to see from (for instance) inside a train in darkness. Not everyone has a smartphone and when the PIS is not working, I find it good to know where we've stopped.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top