Minor things on trains which irritate you

[D821]

People who repeatedly press the door open button, even though the doors haven’t been released.

There’s a man I often see on my commute, and he does this every time. You have to wait for the button to light up and the beeping sound. Surely it’s not hard to figure out.

I used to see a woman on my commute who would keep rapidly jabbing the lift button at Hamilton Square as if it would make it close the doors faster.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used to see a woman on my commute who would keep rapidly jabbing the lift button at Hamilton Square as if it would make it close the doors faster.

Some lifts do work differently in that sort of regard. Repeated jabbing is unlikely to work, but in some holding the desired floor/close button down does make it go quicker. In others the close button does nothing at all!

Train open buttons work differently too. Some (e.g. Desiros) are "level activated", so if you press and hold before they light up the open when released, and some (e.g. 323s) are "edge activated" so the actual press has to occur after release.

 

[yorksrob]

On a Great Western flying cucumber, why is it that around for fifths of the seats on the whole train (I've walked through standard) are all facing in the same direction ? This means that right now, four fifths are facing backwards when even a half-wit knows that the majority of people prefer to face forwards when traveling. This would have been such an easy design flaw to avoid.

Designed by amateurs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a Great Western flying cucumber, why is it that around for fifths of the seats on the whole train (I've walked through standard) are all facing in the same direction ? This means that right now, four fifths are facing backwards when even a half-wit knows that the majority of people prefer to face forwards when traveling. This would have been such an easy design flaw to avoid.

Designed by amateurs.

Not actually true. In most coaches it's about half and half, though slightly imbalanced.

The end vehicle that is true of, and it's a requirement for high speed running. Pendolinos are the same.

 

[yorksrob]

Not actually true. In most coaches it's about half and half, though slightly imbalanced.

The end vehicle that is true of, and it's a requirement for high speed running. Pendolinos are the same.

Well, in this carriage (which is the same as all the others which I've walked through), there are four blocks of airline seating separated by facing bays. The of those are facing backwards in each carriage.

This is a major imbalance of you want an airline seat so as not to get crowded around.

Could they not have just alternated it for each carriage ?

 

[py_megapixel]

People on GWR trains walking straight past the Huge luggage rack for suitcases that is completely empty and sitting in the wheelchair space with their suitcase and remaining seated as a wheelchair users ends up ‘parked’ up as luggage as they don’t feel they should have to move from the seat even though there are plenty of seats available to them and only one wheelchair accessible seat - really gets on my goat

The problem is that many of the seats don't have a clear view of the racks, and people want (and are told by announcements) to keep their luggage in sight at all times, in case it is stolen, or staff deem it suspicious and remove it.

People who repeatedly press the door open button, even though the doors haven’t been released.

There’s a man I often see on my commute, and he does this every time. You have to wait for the button to light up and the beeping sound. Surely it’s not hard to figure out.

Some lifts do work differently in that sort of regard. Repeated jabbing is unlikely to work, but in some holding the desired floor/close button down does make it go quicker. In others the close button does nothing at all!

Train open buttons work differently too. Some (e.g. Desiros) are "level activated", so if you press and hold before they light up the open when released, and some (e.g. 323s) are "edge activated" so the actual press has to occur after release.

This is a minor fascination of mine. As far as I can tell, everything built pre-privatisation, and also Desiros and the Hitachi 80x, will open the doors immediately if the button is held when they are released. This includes 323s - I remember this clearly because now they're PRM-modded, a door opening beep has been bodged in, and if you hold the button down then the door actually starts opening before the beeping.

In contrast, Aventrae, along with CAF's stuff, seem to require that the press occurs after door release.

I can't remember what the older Bombardier or Alstom units do. On Stadler, the door obviously won't open immediately, because of the sliding step, but I don't know exactly how it does behave.

 

[fgwrich]

The problem is that many of the seats don't have a clear view of the racks, and people want (and are told by announcements) to keep their luggage in sight at all times, in case it is stolen, or staff deem it suspicious and remove it.

This is one of the biggest bugbears of mine with the IET design, and somewhere FGW had previously in the 2006 HST refurbishment, got right. The luggage racks in the IET are a poor design and will either fill up quickly or won’t take certain sizes of luggage - your then told to use the ‘multi-use’ spaces at the end of the coach which either double up as cycle spaces (with the luggage rack up) or as an additional luggage rack (with the luggage rack down). The problem with this is that, unlike in the Mk3s where FGW put glass walls in so you could see your luggage, on the IET you are leaving it in the vestibule right next to the doors, and rightly so security conscious passengers will take their luggage with them to the seats. And yes, luggage theft from trains is still prevalent on the railways.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is one of the biggest bugbears of mine with the IET design, and somewhere FGW had previously in the 2006 HST refurbishment, got right. The luggage racks in the IET are a poor design and will either fill up quickly or won’t take certain sizes of luggage - your then told to use the ‘multi-use’ spaces at the end of the coach which either double up as cycle spaces (with the luggage rack up) or as an additional luggage rack (with the luggage rack down). The problem with this is that, unlike in the Mk3s where FGW put glass walls in so you could see your luggage, on the IET you are leaving it in the vestibule right next to the doors, and rightly so security conscious passengers will take their luggage with them to the seats. And yes, luggage theft from trains is still prevalent on the railways.

The overhead is massive and people need to make more use of it for large but lighter bags such as typical suitcases of clothing. Most people travel with a typical airline carry-on and these fit easily. Yet they'll put them in the overhead on a plane but not a train.

I can confirm that a 120 litre, 30+ kg rucksack with tent attached will fit - this is hugely more extreme than the luggage carried by most passengers.

 

[fgwrich]

The overhead is massive and people need to make more use of it for large but lighter bags such as typical suitcases of clothing. Most people travel with a typical airline carry-on and these fit easily. Yet they'll put them in the overhead on a plane but not a train.

I can confirm that a 120 litre, 30+ kg rucksack with tent attached will fit - this is hugely more extreme than the luggage carried by most passengers.

They might be, but a lot of passengers still aren’t using them and there in-lies the problem. Either more emphasis needs to me made of the larger overhead racks, or GWR needs to do an LNER and fit additional racks where the windowless seats are. Of course the latter will still probably upset the Marsham street seat counters.

 

[Jamiescott1]

The pause between stopping and thr doors being realised on the gwr 387.

The huge step down from train to platform on the 345's from Paddington

 

[Bletchleyite]

They might be, but a lot of passengers still aren’t using them and there in-lies the problem. Either more emphasis needs to me made of the larger overhead racks, or GWR needs to do an LNER and fit additional racks where the windowless seats are.

They should do both. Those seats aren't worth sitting in anyway - no view and narrower.

 

[supervc-10]

This is a minor fascination of mine. As far as I can tell, everything built pre-privatisation, and also Desiros and the Hitachi 80x, will open the doors immediately if the button is held when they are released. This includes 323s - I remember this clearly because now they're PRM-modded, a door opening beep has been bodged in, and if you hold the button down then the door actually starts opening before the beeping.

In contrast, Aventrae, along with CAF's stuff, seem to require that the press occurs after door release.

I can't remember what the older Bombardier or Alstom units do. On Stadler, the door obviously won't open immediately, because of the sliding step, but I don't know exactly how it does behave.

I still think the best way is how the Manchester MetroLink Bombardier trams work- if you press the button, it'll flash until the next stop and then open the door immediately once they're unlocked (if it's on the correct side).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I still think the best way is how the Manchester MetroLink Bombardier trams work- if you press the button, it'll flash until the next stop and then open the door immediately once they're unlocked (if it's on the correct side).

It's common in Europe to do this. The downside is that wrong-side release potentially has higher consequences.

 

[43096]

It's common in Europe to do this. The downside is that wrong-side release potentially has higher consequences.

Fitting Correct Side Door Enable kit mitigates that risk, though.

 

[supervc-10]

There is that increased risk- but I'm not sure it's that much worse a risk on the MetroLink than on any heavy rail line, as tram vs human and train vs human have very similar consequences! I think a system using balises (think I may have spelled that wrong!) could work well, also covering ASDO.

 

[Richard Scott]

It's common in Europe to do this. The downside is that wrong-side release potentially has higher consequences.

Really? Only place I know is Austria where this occurs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? Only place I know is Austria where this occurs.

Switzerland too.

 

[ChrisC]

The overhead is massive and people need to make more use of it for large but lighter bags such as typical suitcases of clothing. Most people travel with a typical airline carry-on and these fit easily. Yet they'll put them in the overhead on a plane but not a train.

I can confirm that a 120 litre, 30+ kg rucksack with tent attached will fit - this is hugely more extreme than the luggage carried by most passengers.

I think a big problem is the inconsistency between TOCs and from one type of train to another. When I go away for just a few days I just take a small case and try only to take a medium sized case for longer stays. I’ve got to know over time which type of trains my case will fit on the overhead racks and try to organise my journey to travel on trains where that is possible. Voyagers and Meridians, unless in 1st Class, I try to avoid. The problem is that I know, for example, that my case will fit on the overhead racks on 158’s and 170’s and will usually put my case on the overhead rack. However, on trains belonging to some TOCs there are yellow signs telling you not to place heavy items on the overhead racks.

I’m probably a bit paranoid about leaving my case out of view at the end of the carriage as about 30 years ago I was travelling with friends who had theirs stolen between Glasgow Central and Crewe. It may have been many years ago but I haven’t forgotten and refuse to leave my luggage out of sight. On trains like Voyagers I like to sit where I can keep an eye on my case through the glass panel.

 

[Ethano92]

They should do both. Those seats aren't worth sitting in anyway - no view and narrower.

I know this is a common opinion on this forum but i don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with windowless seats. Especially if you don’t want glare on your screen or you’re travelling when it’s dark out anyway. The pendelinos have similar at their carriage ends and nobody seems to be asking for them to be removed despite their overhead racks being significantly smaller.

I would genuinely prefer a luggage rack to be installed nearer to the centre of the carriage even if it impedes on what would be a seat with a window view. I understand why some passengers would feel uneasy leaving their luggage right by the doors. Not that it’s not common, but it does go against instinct especially with all the reminders to keep luggage close.

 

[Richard Scott]

Switzerland too.

Maybe on trams but not on mainline trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe on trams but not on mainline trains.

All their Stadler FLIRTs do it. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a standard Stadler thing that only isn't there if you ask for it not to be.

On "very local" services with request stops it's how you request a stop.

Their LHCS doesn't do it because it doesn't have sided release, all doors release under 5km/h. Though IC2000 double deckers might, I forget.

 

[gg1]

I would genuinely prefer a luggage rack to be installed nearer to the centre of the carriage even if it impedes on what would be a seat with a window view.

It makes getting off a crowded train far more awkward than luggage racks near the doors as you have to squeeze past the people standing in the aisle to reach your luggage, with racks towards the end you just pick it up when you pass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know this is a common opinion on this forum but i don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with windowless seats. Especially if you don’t want glare on your screen or you’re travelling when it’s dark out anyway. The pendelinos have similar at their carriage ends and nobody seems to be asking for them to be removed despite their overhead racks being significantly smaller.

Actually, Avanti have realised luggage space is inadequate, and are expanding the racks. I have no idea if the expansions are over windows or deadlights, though.

The Pendolino deadlight seats are different from the 80x ones, though, in that they aren't narrower. The 80x ones have no centre armrest and the seats closer together, and are thus undesirable.

 

[43096]

Maybe on trams but not on mainline trains.

Try the Zürich S-bahn.

 

[Ethano92]

It makes getting off a crowded train far more awkward than luggage racks near the doors as you have to squeeze past the people standing in the aisle to reach your luggage, with racks towards the end you just pick it up when you pass.

At intermediate stations that is true but at terminal stations, people blocking the carriage exit as they get their luggage off the rack is just as awkward when everyone is trying to get off. I’m not saying either or is better, realistically both would be the best solution as baggage is something that many operators seem to just let be a problem on busy services.

 

[Peter0124]

I know this is a common opinion on this forum but i don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with windowless seats. Especially if you don’t want glare on your screen or you’re travelling when it’s dark out anyway. The pendelinos have similar at their carriage ends and nobody seems to be asking for them to be removed despite their overhead racks being significantly smaller.

I would genuinely prefer a luggage rack to be installed nearer to the centre of the carriage even if it impedes on what would be a seat with a window view. I understand why some passengers would feel uneasy leaving their luggage right by the doors. Not that it’s not common, but it does go against instinct especially with all the reminders to keep luggage close.

Theres nothing wrong with a windowless seat in that sense, but being randomly assigned one is a no no. I would rather they were an option to be checked in the seat selector, like the quiet coach, and probably less of them aswell (ie more luggage space). The window blinds will do the job (though be aware of anyone else sharing the same window).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Theres nothing wrong with a windowless seat in that sense, but being randomly assigned one is a no no. I would rather they were an option to be checked in the seat selector, like the quiet coach, and probably less of them aswell (ie more luggage space).

Seat selectors solve the issue, if only TOCs would actually mark the window positions on their seating plan, that being the main reason anyone would want to select a seat! It's not hard.

The window blinds will do the job (though be aware of anyone else sharing the same window).

I don't like window blinds, they are a source of unnecessary conflict. Though they'd be OK if they moved horizontally rather than vertically so there was one for each seat.

 

[py_megapixel]

What about Dreamliner-style "smart glass"? I wonder if there'd be any way of electrically splitting a window into segments that could be separately dimmed.

I imagine it would be extremely expensive, though. And the main selling point of it to airlines is that cabin crew can control all the windows in the cabin at once, but I'm not sure that would go down particularly well on trains!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What about Dreamliner-style "smart glass"? I wonder if there be any way of electrically splitting a window into segments that could be separately dimmed.

I imagine it would be extremely expensive, though. And the main selling point of it to airlines is that cabin crew can control all the windows in the cabin at once, but I'm not sure that would go down particularly well on trains!

I quite like that, being someone who doesn't sleep on planes and so likes looking out. Even dimmed you can see out, but it doesn't let any light in. Very well-designed indeed.

 

[supervc-10]

I love the Dreamliner windows, and I'm please Airbus are now offering them on the A350s too.

The Pendolino deadlight seats are different from the 80x ones, though, in that they aren't narrower

Not sure I'd agree with this though- the tilt profile and thick plastic around the window pillars means that the window seat has very little shoulder room. My husband and I fitted OK in those narrow pairs on an LNER 80X, we categorically do not on a Pendolino when whoever gets the 'window' can't put their shoulder into the gap! We always have to find a pair where the window is aligned so that your shoulder is against glass not plastic. We are both quite big broad shouldered rugby player type guys though, so I appreciate not everyone has the same issue.