Golborne station reopening - How might it be served?

[The Planner]

They suggested
Liverpool- Wavertee Technolgy Park-Huyton- St Helens Central- Bryn- Wigan NW(reverse)-Hindley- Westhoughton-Bolton- Salford Crescent then into Manchester and the return to
Liverpool
Manchester-Eccles-Chat Moss- Golborne(possible reversal via Newton-le-Willows and Lea Green) or Bryn and as above

@Gathursty is that what you meant?

 

[Hey 3]

They suggested
Liverpool- Wavertee Technolgy Park-Huyton- St Helens Central- Bryn- Wigan NW(reverse)-Hindley- Westhoughton-Bolton- Salford Crescent then into Manchester and the return to
Liverpool
Manchester-Eccles-Chat Moss- Golborne(possible reversal via Newton-le-Willows and Lea Green) or Bryn and as above

Plus they also suggested Liverpool Lime Street- Wavertree Technology Park- Huyton- St Helens Central- Bryn- Golborne- NLW- Lea Green- Huyton- Liverpool

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2021 ==

Plus they also suggested Liverpool Lime Street- Wavertree Technology Park- Huyton- St Helens Central- Bryn- Golborne- NLW- Lea Green- Huyton- Liverpool

It could also reverse at Wigan NW

 

[Gathursty]

No.
I suggested Liverpool - St Helens Central - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - NLW - Earlestown - Liverpool with stops to be decided.
I also suggested Manchester (any terminus) - (via Atherton/Bolton) - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - Patricroft - Eccles - (Manchester (any))

A circular from each city which will hit Wigan NW and Golborne.

 

[Hey 3]

No.
I suggested Liverpool - St Helens Central - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - NLW - Earlestown - Liverpool with stops to be decided.
I also suggested Manchester (any terminus) - (via Atherton/Bolton) - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - Patricroft - Eccles - (Manchester (any))

A circular from each city which will hit Wigan NW and Golborne.

Aha, nice plan but again without Lostock to Wigan electrification a DMU has to run under the wires most of the way(Liverpool-Wigan via Parkside or St Helens and Lostock to Manchester, and also reversal at Wigan NW. It is a good plan though, and if there is paths, I would introduce a Preston-Warrington Bank Quay local calling at all stations including Earlestown and NLW, this way all of Golborne's market is catered for because a lot of Golborne people shop in Wigan, Warrington and St Helens as well as giving a Liverpool service to there and giving the GMCA what they want, a service to Manchester

 

[Ianno87]

Aha, nice plan but again without Lostock to Wigan electrification a DMU has to run under the wires most of the way(Liverpool-Wigan via Parkside or St Helens and Lostock to Manchester, and also reversal at Wigan NW. It is a good plan though, and if there is paths, I would introduce a Preston-Warrington Bank Quay local calling at all stations including Earlestown and NLW, this way all of Golborne's market is catered for because a lot of Golborne people shop in Wigan, Warrington and St Helens as well as giving a Liverpool service to there and giving the GMCA what they want, a service to Manchester

Or a 769.

 

[Hey 3]

Or a 769.

Or a bi-mode 331 when they are built(battery and electric capable)

 

[HST43257]

Golborne doesn’t merit a good service (to Liverpool and Manchester off peak). It can have an all day 1tph Warrington to Wigan (via NLW), as well as 1tph Liverpool to Wigan (peak time only instead of Warrington).

NLW has existing, upgradable services, but Golborne is effectively on a branch route (if you call Chat Moss the mainline in this situation).

 

[Hey 3]

Golborne doesn’t merit a good service (to Liverpool and Manchester off peak). It can have an all day 1tph Warrington to Wigan (via NLW), as well as 1tph Liverpool to Wigan (peak time only instead of Warrington).

NLW has existing, upgradable services, but Golborne is effectively on a branch route (if you call Chat Moss the mainline in this situation).

So you are calling the WCML a branch line?
Excuse me, but what were you thinking about calling the WCML a branch line.
Golborne does merit a good service to Liverpool, Wigan, St Helens, Warrington and Manchester off peak. The town, combined with Lowton is about 25,000 pop plus the Leigh consticuency, its pop is nearly 100,000 people with Leigh being 52,000, Tyldesley being 15,000, Golborne and Lowton being 25,000, the Howe Bridge and Hindsford part of Atherton, Astley, Mosley Common and the Wigan part of Boothstown making up a 100,000 consticuency which is the size of Wigan(town) alone and that population deserves an off peak service as well as giving the people of Leigh and its consticuency its only rail link.

 

[HST43257]

So you are calling the WCML a branch line?
Excuse me, but what were you thinking about calling the WCML a branch line.

The most efficient way to serve locations with Liverpool and Manchester services is on a Liverpool to Manchester route. It’s more inefficient to branch off that route to, say, Golborne (which happens to be on the WCML). Of course I’m not calling one of the most important routes in the UK a branch line in general, but in this situation it’s acting as one.

NLW should get a good upgrade with a lot more parking space. That’s all that’s needed.

 

[Bevan Price]

If you look at existing public transport service Golborne, the main (busiest) route is Leigh - Lowton - Golborne - Ashton In Makerfield - Wigan, followed by Warrington - Newton Le Willows - Golborne - Platt Bridge - Wigan.
Golborne has very little affinity with St. Helens -- very few people change at Ashton between the Golborne & St. Helens buses.

 

[Hey 3]

No.
I suggested Liverpool - St Helens Central - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - NLW - Earlestown - Liverpool with stops to be decided.
I also suggested Manchester (any terminus) - (via Atherton/Bolton) - Wigan NW (reverse) - Golborne - Patricroft - Eccles - (Manchester (any))

A circular from each city which will hit Wigan NW and Golborne.

As another part of your timetable I propose 2tph(1 via Bolton, other via Atherton)
Liverpool-Huyton-St Helens-Bryn-Wigan NW(reverse)-Hindley-Westhoughton-Lostock-Bolton-Farnworth-Salford(both stations-Manchester Victoria(then turn around)- Salford Central(new platforms-Eccles-Chat Moss-Golborne(reverse via Newton-le-Willows and Lea Green, then Wigan NW(reverse then as above to Liverpool)

 

[The Planner]

As another part of your timetable I propose 2tph(1 via Bolton, other via Atherton)
Liverpool-Huyton-St Helens-Bryn-Wigan NW(reverse)-Hindley-Westhoughton-Lostock-Bolton-Farnworth-Salford(both stations-Manchester Victoria(then turn around)- Salford Central(new platforms-Eccles-Chat Moss-Golborne(reverse via Newton-le-Willows and Lea Green, then Wigan NW(reverse then as above to Liverpool)

That makes no sense, where do NLW and Lea Green come into it if you are going via Golborne to reverse at Wigan. You originally said you didn't want reversals?

 

[Hey 3]

That makes no sense, where do NLW and Lea Green come into it if you are going via Golborne to reverse at Wigan. You originally said you didn't want reversals?

I originally said that, yes but I decided to settle with reversals to complete the circular and for connectivity and Wigan NW.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2021 ==

That makes no sense, where do NLW and Lea Green come into it if you are going via Golborne to reverse at Wigan. You originally said you didn't want reversals?

They come in to it when you reverse at the proposed site of Golborne station and use Parkside West Curve/Jn

 

[The Planner]

I originally said that, yes but I decided to settle with reversals to complete the circular and for connectivity and Wigan NW.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2021 ==


They come in to it when you reverse at the proposed site of Golborne station and use Parkside West Curve/Jn

That sounds barking mad, so you are going to go along the Chat Moss, round to Golborne, reverse, and back to NLW?

 

[Hey 3]

That sounds barking mad, so you are going to go along the Chat Moss, round to Golborne, reverse, and back to NLW?

Ok, I will give up the reversal at Golborne

 

[PR1Berske]

So you are calling the WCML a branch line?
Excuse me, but what were you thinking about calling the WCML a branch line.
Golborne does merit a good service to Liverpool, Wigan, St Helens, Warrington and Manchester off peak. The town, combined with Lowton is about 25,000 pop plus the Leigh consticuency, its pop is nearly 100,000 people with Leigh being 52,000, Tyldesley being 15,000, Golborne and Lowton being 25,000, the Howe Bridge and Hindsford part of Atherton, Astley, Mosley Common and the Wigan part of Boothstown making up a 100,000 consticuency which is the size of Wigan(town) alone and that population deserves an off peak service as well as giving the people of Leigh and its consticuency its only rail link.

I think that the reference was to Chat Moss and NLW being the "main" version of a line for connectivity. WCML is not a branch line obviously, but Golborne's place on it will be essentially branch-like.

 

[Class 170101]

The route doesn't have any hourly stopping service all day yet so I can't see the station working out.

 

[Some guy]

Who would serve them though as only Avanti serve going the Warrington way and northern only run services to barrow and Windermere from there which will eventually be rerouted via Bolton. Unless northern started doing a bank quay service from Wigan

 

[geoffk]

The obvious question is - what trains are going to stop there? Manchester - Barrow/Windermere is the obvious candidate but it's due to be rerouted via Bolton in ? December and a completely new service seems unlikely in the current climate. (I see others have just made similar comments)

 

[Pinus contorta]

The obvious question is - what trains are going to stop there? Manchester - Barrow/Windermere is the obvious candidate but it's due to be rerouted via Bolton in ? December and a completely new service seems unlikely in the current climate. (I see others have just made similar comments)

There has been the occasional Preston/Wigan to Liverpool train in the not too distant past, which have been diverted off the St Helens Central route. Going via Earlestown. I'm pretty sure there was an early morning train doing this. I suppose that is one way of linking Golborne up to Wigan and Liverpool.

On the other hand, if TFGM are funding a new station, then that would suggest a Wigan- Golborne- Manchester route as suggested by others.

 

[TC7]

Isn't there a proposal a to run peak time services from Manchester Victoria - Eccles - Wigan, in place of stopping the Leeds-Chester at Eccles at peak times from December? That could in theory stop at Golborne, if they made that service hourly then you could have a viable service pattern

 

[childwallblues]

There has been the occasional Preston/Wigan to Liverpool train in the not too distant past, which have been diverted off the St Helens Central route. Going via Earlestown. I'm pretty sure there was an early morning train doing this. I suppose that is one way of linking Golborne up to Wigan and Liverpool.

On the other hand, if TFGM are funding a new station, then that would suggest a Wigan- Golborne- Manchester route as suggested by others.

Currently there is a 0703 Wigan North Western to Liverpool Lime Street which runs via Newton-Le-Willows rather than the normal St Helens Central route. The unit runs ecs from Blackpool and is booked for 319 haulage.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some of the TPE Liverpool-Glasgow services do (or did) run via Golborne, to the great annoyance of St Helens Central passengers.
The best new connectivity would be with a Crewe-Preston semi-fast, as once intended by the LM franchise (from Birmingham).
We would be back to the debate about semi-fasts taking stops off the long-distance trains, enabling them to be accelerated.
That debate will need to be had before HS2 opens, when you'd expect classic services to be reconfigured.

Sounds a bit like the Reston situation in Scotland - the locals have willed a station, but the railway doesn't really want to serve it.
A more local situation is Warrington West, where the last thing the railway wanted was another stop on an already congested diesel line with awkward turnrounds.
A station at Golborne would probably prompt a demand for one at Coppull, too.

 

[Greybeard33]

Isn't there a proposal a to run peak time services from Manchester Victoria - Eccles - Wigan, in place of stopping the Leeds-Chester at Eccles at peak times from December? That could in theory stop at Golborne, if they made that service hourly then you could have a viable service pattern

Northern's draft December timetable has services from Wigan to Victoria via Eccles at 0635, 0738 and 0837, SX, and return services from Victoria at 1613, 1713 and 1813. Not sure about the business case for a new station served by only 6 trains per day, M-F only? However, it would be useful to GM Mayor Burnham, who lives near Golborne.

 

[8A Rail]

The issue with any station in that area is Golborne Junction itself as the WCML goes from four lines to two lines as well as access to the L&M line (by crossing Up and Down WC fast lines) so have more trains at that location may create more operational issues and consequently may be less paths on the WCML especially between Golborne and Winwick Junctions. I am not sure that Avanti and some FOC's will be happy with that. May be proposed money better spent elsewhere in Greater Manchester??

 

[SJL2020]

May be proposed money better spent elsewhere in Greater Manchester??

Luckily, GM Mayor Andy Burnham lives in Golborne so is excellently placed to judge.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Luckily, GM Mayor Andy Burnham lives in Golborne so is excellently placed to judge.

He will be well placed to know that it needs some economic stimulation/ levelling up (or what ever its called at the moment). Can't see this one being canned tbh.

 

[D6975]

Luckily, GM Mayor Andy Burnham lives in Golborne so is excellently placed to judge.

I wonder if he would ever use it? Apart from the photo opportunity on the opening day of course.

 

[S&CLER]

Some of the TPE Liverpool-Glasgow services do (or did) run via Golborne, to the great annoyance of St Helens Central passengers.
The best new connectivity would be with a Crewe-Preston semi-fast, as once intended by the LM franchise (from Birmingham).
We would be back to the debate about semi-fasts taking stops off the long-distance trains, enabling them to be accelerated.
That debate will need to be had before HS2 opens, when you'd expect classic services to be reconfigured.

Sounds a bit like the Reston situation in Scotland - the locals have willed a station, but the railway doesn't really want to serve it.
A more local situation is Warrington West, where the last thing the railway wanted was another stop on an already congested diesel line with awkward turnrounds.
A station at Golborne would probably prompt a demand for one at Coppull, too.

Coppull is a more realistic proposition, I think, but only if 4 tracks are reinstated between Standish and Euxton, which might well be part of whatever ultimately happens with the HS2 link being moved to north of Wigan. And there is an existing service that could use it, i.e. Liverpool-Preston-Blackpool.

 

[lancastrian]

A station at Golborne would probably prompt a demand for one at Coppull, too.

Now that would be an excellent idea. The site of the old station is still available, it is right in the centre of Coppull. There has been much new housing built in the village since the old station was closed. Plus it could be easily served by the Liverpool to Preston services. The major cost would be the reinstating of the third & fourth track for about 3 miles from Balshaw Lane Junction to just past Coppull station. This would improve capacity along this route when finally the HST is open for trains to Scotland. Even better would to extend it all the way to Standish junction, where the Whelley Line diverged around Wigan.