Access from National Rail to the Underground

[DynamicSpirit]

On the subject of long walks - although this time as a pure tube connection, I recall one occasion a few years ago when I arrived at Bank on the DLR wanting the Northern Line to get to Moorgate. Usually that would just be, up the stairs that connect the Northern and DLR platforms, but this was in the rush hour so one-way system in operation which as far as I could tell from the signs prevented me from just going up the stairs. I dutifully followed the signs along a long corridor/escalator and ended up at Monument! Had to walk back to Bank along the other one-way passageway between the stations. To this day I'm not quite sure if that really was the only route available or whether I missed some alternative allowed route. Wasn't happy with the experience anyway.

Hopefully once the Bank rebuild is complete, long interchanges there will be a thing of the past.

 

[AlbertBeale]

On the subject of long walks - although this time as a pure tube connection, I recall one occasion a few years ago when I arrived at Bank on the DLR wanting the Northern Line to get to Moorgate. Usually that would just be, up the stairs that connect the Northern and DLR platforms, but this was in the rush hour so one-way system in operation which as far as I could tell from the signs prevented me from just going up the stairs. I dutifully followed the signs along a long corridor/escalator and ended up at Monument! Had to walk back to Bank along the other one-way passageway between the stations. To this day I'm not quite sure if that really was the only route available or whether I missed some alternative allowed route. Wasn't happy with the experience anyway.

Hopefully once the Bank rebuild is complete, long interchanges there will be a thing of the past.

Yes - there are some tube-tube short-cuts between the old lines in central London - eg the odd un-signposted spiral staircase between Picc and Northern at Leicester Sq and so on. I can't remember them all now, but I always know them when I see them! Must be "in my blood" as a long-time Londoner...

 

[urbophile]

I suppose the way the Circle Line runs now doesn't help. Next month I have to get from Paddington to St. Pancras and, unless I want to change at Edgware Road, I'll have to use the H&C line platforms which means, as far as I remember, a longer walk.

Query: do the terminating Circle Line trains all use the same platform at Edgware Road? When it was a circle, the two west-facing bay platforms were used indiscriminately by Wimbledon trains. I wonder if now, Wimbledon trains always use one and Circle the other? If the latter always used the northernmost platform it would make cross-platform interchange for those travelling eastwards a doddle.

 

[swt_passenger]

Query: do the terminating Circle Line trains all use the same platform at Edgware Road? When it was a circle, the two west-facing bay platforms were used indiscriminately by Wimbledon trains. I wonder if now, Wimbledon trains always use one and Circle the other? If the latter always used the northernmost platform it would make cross-platform interchange for those travelling eastwards a doddle.

IIRC they do try and use a standard platforming, but what it is I don’t know anymore. I think a few years ago someone reported that it had changed and it was now the District terminator that was best for eastbound cross platform changes.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Query: do the terminating Circle Line trains all use the same platform at Edgware Road? When it was a circle, the two west-facing bay platforms were used indiscriminately by Wimbledon trains. I wonder if now, Wimbledon trains always use one and Circle the other? If the latter always used the northernmost platform it would make cross-platform interchange for those travelling eastwards a doddle.

There is supposed to be a routine division between which platform is used for which - and the signage suggested that when I was last there (though the indicators can cover all eventualities). I believe it started off one way round when the line was de-circled, but was subsequently switched round.

I believe the idea is that more people arriving from the east who need to change will be wanting a District than a Circle, so Wimbledon trains are adjacent. And perhaps Circle are terminated adjacent to the eastbound through platform so as to minimise hassle for those coming round the Circle would wouldn't have had to change in the old days?

But it remains the case that it's now strongly advised that Paddington mainline arrivals wanting to go clockwise should go to te H&C [and Circle] platforms, not to the District and Circle ones, even though that's more of a trek from low-number platforms arrivals especially. (Though made up for perhaps by a more frequent service on the H&C branch since the Circle change.)

 

[infobleep]

The steady growth in passenger numbers over the past 25 years has given a general need for more circulating space, longer trains and platforms. Far greater attention has been given to things like emergency egress since the King's Cross fire. Many stations have more platforms and/or lines above or below ground. Access to lifts has had to be fitted in, one-way systems introduced to manage passenger flows, separation of facilities over mezzanine decks. The list goes on.

So the basic answer to the OP's question is "often, yes" - for good reasons.

There is also another factor for some of us, that we might walk more slowly as we get older.

One exception to this must be London Waterloo. It is quicker to use the subways on the platforms but except during the morning and evening peak, they are closed. This is station peaks as opposed to ticket ones.

Prior to the introduction of station barriers, they were open for longer.

In addition to this on platforms 11 and 12, they introduced the back end of the commercial unit, which hinders access to the subway from one of the two platforms. I forget which one. Obviously, the hindrance only applies during the peaks.

 

[ashkeba]

I'm sorry, but this has all the scope for a pantomime interchange ...

Kings Cross already has a pantomime interchange: Where's the quickest exit? It's behind you!

 

[infobleep]

‘So much further’ is less than 100 metres, all of which is through much less congested areas than Pre rebuild, and with more escalator assistance to get you to platform level. And when you get to platform level you are more likely to be able to board the train at peak times, as rather than being at the back along with all those who boarded at Charing X and Waterloo East, you are further up.

Well, I just missed a train the other day because the escalators were blocked by two people standing. Playing devil's advocate that wouldn't occur on a ramp as you have to walk.

I want aiming for any particular train but as I was there at the time I was, I would have otherwise got it.

 

[miklcct]

Well, I just missed a train the other day because the escalators were blocked by two people standing. Playing devil's advocate that wouldn't occur on a ramp as you have to walk.

I want aiming for any particular train but as I was there at the time I was, I would have otherwise got it.

I'll use the stairs instead of escalators if I'm in a rush catching trains in my commute.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well, I just missed a train the other day because the escalators were blocked by two people standing. Playing devil's advocate that wouldn't occur on a ramp as you have to walk.

I can assure you it routinely happened on the ramps at London Bridge. If you were heading up when a previous train had kicked out it was often single file up the ramp, and you went at the speed of whoever was slowest. If it was a pensioner with a shopping trolley, tough, and there was simply no way past and you were taking an extra minute or so.

meanwhile, on an escalator, a simple “excuse me” usually does the trick.

 

[Lewlew]

Where can I find the station layout maps of all underground stations, like this?

It doesn't have every station but it's a very good start...

3D maps of every Underground station

TfL has released a batch of documents which show almost every underground station in glorious 3D format.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

 

[Class 170101]

I suppose the way the Circle Line runs now doesn't help. Next month I have to get from Paddington to St. Pancras and, unless I want to change at Edgware Road, I'll have to use the H&C line platforms which means, as far as I remember, a longer walk.

If I was coming off Great Western mainline services you want to be nearer the middle of the train, actually being at the front arriving at Paddington doesn't actually help you anymore, then use the bridge to egress the station for the H&C platforms.

 

[AM9]

It certainly was when trains from Greenford ran to Paddington and were a double ended single car.

Didn't the Greenford trains arrive at platform 14? If so, that platform is shorter and the bufferes are almost opposite the long footbridge for quick access to the H&C platforms.

 

[Trackman]

For example at London Bridge what used to be a relatively simple change now feels like a long slog?

And that is if you can find the new entrance.
A lady once asked me where the entrance was, she must have been 2m away from it.
I wonder if it has been signposted better now? I try and avoid London Bridge anyway.

 

[Kite159]

Accessing the Vicky line at Victoria has been longer since the large upgrade, although around the same for exiting the Underground: they have 3 down escalators and 3 up escalators together, where the up ones are almost right next to the platforms at the base and at the barriers at the top. On the other hand the down escalator leads to a long walk through a separate walkway, which I imagine is almost certainly to avoid overcrowding.

Isn't it quicker to access the Vicky line platforms going via the sub surface platforms and using a shortcut to bypass the new walkway?

 

[infobleep]

I can assure you it routinely happened on the ramps at London Bridge. If you were heading up when a previous train had kicked out it was often single file up the ramp, and you went at the speed of whoever was slowest. If it was a pensioner with a shopping trolley, tough, and there was simply no way past and you were taking an extra minute or so.

meanwhile, on an escalator, a simple “excuse me” usually does the trick.

Indeed excuse me does and I eventually did that but too late in this case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2022 ==

I'll use the stairs instead of escalators if I'm in a rush catching trains in my commute.

That seems sensible. I was with someone else so didn't.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2022 ==

Isn't it quicker to access the Vicky line platforms going via the sub surface platforms and using a shortcut to bypass the new walkway?

No idea but it certainly used to be quicker in the rush hour before they expanded the circulating area.

I regularly did that in the morning if I was heading to Euston.

 

[Non Multi]

Didn't the Greenford trains arrive at platform 14? If so, that platform is shorter and the bufferes are almost opposite the long footbridge for quick access to the H&C platforms.

The footbridge that linked platforms 13 (now closed) & 14 to the H&C platforms was permanently blocked off for passenger access when the H&C station was rebuilt a decade ago. You'd need to walk round via the former taxi cab road to get to the Tube platforms.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Where can I find the station layout maps of all underground stations, like this?

The website says:


Hong Kong's MTR has the layout maps for all stations posted on its website, similarly for National Rail which are very handy when I'm heading to an unfamiliar station and decide I should be at the front, middle or back section of a long train.

And has anyone compiled a list of all walking times for every sensible interchange in the Underground / National Rail network in London that can be used for journey planning purpose?

Two points.

This KX map is a bit unclear in that it's hard to see there's a little stairway connecting the "southern" end of the Vic platforms with the "southern" end ot both the Picc and Northern - ie it's a one-minute interchange between those lines, with no need to go up to the (old) ticket hall and down again. (Let alone to hike a mile almost via the new ticket hall!!)

The NR diagrams of stations are very schematic, and quite misleading with stations where the platforms aren't all nicely lined up next to on another! Try getting your head round Shipley, for instance, from the NRE-provided "map"!!

 

[dastocks]

Isn't it quicker to access the Vicky line platforms going via the sub surface platforms and using a shortcut to bypass the new walkway?

Yes, there's a signposted route accessed from a separate gate-line on the sub-surface concourse. It's more direct and usually less busy than the new route from the Victoria Line concourse but there is a long-ish staircase.

If you're coming from the 'Sussex' mainline platforms it's quicker to cross the bus station at ground level rather than via the subway.

 

[Mojo]

Yes - there are some tube-tube short-cuts between the old lines in central London - eg the odd un-signposted spiral staircase between Picc and Northern at Leicester Sq and so on. I can't remember them all now, but I always know them when I see them! Must be "in my blood" as a long-time Londoner...

There is no spiral staircase at Leicester Sq, there are two ‘dog-leg’ passageways with a straight flight of stairs, one going from the headwall of the Westbound Picc to the tailwall of the Northbound Northern, and another from the headwall of the Southbound Northern to the tailwall of the Eastbound Picc. Both are most definitely signed from their respective platforms, although if you’re at the opposite end it’ll take you toward the long subway.

 

[Taunton]

Kings Cross already has a pantomime interchange: Where's the quickest exit? It's behind you!

Very good!

 

[Dstock7080]

There is supposed to be a routine division between which platform is used for which - and the signage suggested that when I was last there (though the indicators can cover all eventualities). I believe it started off one way round when the line was de-circled, but was subsequently switched round.

I believe the idea is that more people arriving from the east who need to change will be wanting a District than a Circle, so Wimbledon trains are adjacent. And perhaps Circle are terminated adjacent to the eastbound through platform so as to minimise hassle for those coming round the Circle would wouldn't have had to change in the old days?

Indeed when the pan-handle Circle was introduced terminating trains used pfm.2 adjacent to the eastbound H&C platform.
This was swapped a few years ago (2018 possibly) so that District trains normally use pfm.2.
However at times of disruption this goes out the window and services use either ‘wrong’ platform, with the driver only finding out on the immediate approach.

 

[ashkeba]

Where can I find the station layout maps of all underground stations, like this?

That map appears to be missing the escalators from the KX departure hall and to/from King's Boulevard. I am not sure what else may be missing.

 

[swt_passenger]

That map appears to be missing the escalators from the KX departure hall and to/from King's Boulevard. I am not sure what else may be missing.

It’s pre-2010 according to the item about lifts in the key. It probably reflects work in progress rather than the completed project.

 

[JaJaWa]

Where can I find the station layout maps of all underground stations, like this?

Here (privately surveyed):

Station Master App

Station Master App

www.stationmasterapp.com

Station Master App - App Store

Download Station Master by Frostmd LLP on the App Store. See screenshots, ratings and reviews, user tips and more games like Station Master.

apps.apple.com

 

[AlbertBeale]

There is no spiral staircase at Leicester Sq, there are two ‘dog-leg’ passageways with a straight flight of stairs, one going from the headwall of the Westbound Picc to the tailwall of the Northbound Northern, and another from the headwall of the Southbound Northern to the tailwall of the Eastbound Picc. Both are most definitely signed from their respective platforms, although if you’re at the opposite end it’ll take you toward the long subway.

Ah yes - I must be thinking of another of the central station interchanges where's there's a little unsigned staircase ... I must figure out which one!

 

[bluegoblin7]

Spiral staircase would suggest Piccadilly Circus, linking the Piccadilly line with the Northbound Bakerloo. It is signed, but only once you reach it.

 

[XAM2175]

I know the Victoria Line stations are despised by the design profession for having plain paving slabs on the platforms instead of some elegant terrazzo, and such like, but for practicality give me that every time.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[Railcar]

At Victoria, to avoid the long signed route to the Vic line: From the NR platforms, come down the East Sussex stairs, across the old ticket hall, ahead and down the corridor to the District & Circle, go through the gateline on the right at the end of that corridor and down onto the Outer Rail platform. On your right are stairs leading down to escalators which take you to the Vic line platforms. Not a good route if you are disabled or have bulky luggage.

 

[Taunton]

Do you have a source for this?

Surely. All the descriptions in the architectural press around the year 2000 when the JLE opened, and they went on about "dreary grey walls" at stations, and "utilitarian paving slabs" for the platform surfaces - when they were getting their design awards for something which made the passengers walk twice as far, and cost four times as much. Try Architects' Journal for then.