Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[py_megapixel]

Deleted as went off topic.

 

[paul1609]

Here's a prediction: Merseyrail goes bankrupt and the Government steps in as an operator of last resort and the new trains finally come in.

As for battery tests, I'd assume they can lift their shoes, like 73s. Do that on the third rail network and you shouldn't have to worry about anything.

I doubt that they lift their shoes none of the ac/dc units do they're fixed. You just have to make sure that the routes that they run on are cleared for the shoes.
There has been a couple of issues on the WCML (and no doubt other lines) of piles of ballast knocking the shoes off.

 

[507020]

I doubt that they lift their shoes none of the ac/dc units do they're fixed. You just have to make sure that the routes that they run on are cleared for the shoes.
There has been a couple of issues on the WCML (and no doubt other lines) of piles of ballast knocking the shoes off.

They can and do lift their shoes. That is how they did the previous battery trial. 387s also did on northern Thameslink routes. They aren’t on fixed beams like 313/507/508s, 319s, 700s etc.

 

[Skie]

They can and do lift their shoes. That is how they did the previous battery trial. 387s also did on northern Thameslink routes. They aren’t on fixed beams like 313/507/508s, 319s, 700s etc.

Yep. The battery trials were done by just running back and forth to Southport. Shoes down to recharge and back up again to keep testing. Represents a fairly normal operation cycle for the Headbolt Lane extension.

 

[ADHDTog]

The question then comes where they will find the depot space for those because even with all 507/508s gone they couldn’t stable an additional 59.

Last time I passed through Birkenhead Central, I saw some changes around the old shed. What's stopping that being brought back into use?

 

[Skie]

Last time I passed through Birkenhead Central, I saw some changes around the old shed. What's stopping that being brought back into use?

An entirely new shed and electrification. The current shed is falling apart.

 

[ADHDTog]

An entirely new shed and electrification. The current shed is falling apart.

So a significant investment? Are Rock Ferry, Hooton, West Kirby and New Brighton used for stabling?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

An entirely new shed and electrification. The current shed is falling apart.

Just as well the stock thats been using them for the last forty years hasn't.

 

[michael74]

Just as well the stock thats been using them for the last forty years hasn't.

But that's the point, stock hasn't been using it, it has trees growing through the trackbed at the entrance (or at least it did last I went past last year).. Or did I miss read your post? (apologies if I have)

Would a quick fix not be, removed the old shed and vegetation and leave it un electrified, unless I am making it up, don't the 777s have shunt battery?

 

[jamesst]

Last time I passed through Birkenhead Central, I saw some changes around the old shed. What's stopping that being brought back into use?

The desire not to pay for it to be refurbished!

The siding next to the platform at Birkenhead Central aswell as Rock Ferry, Hooton, New Brighton, West Kirby , Birkenhead North Emud, Kirkdale and Southport are where the units are currently stored.

 

[507020]

Is there still not a path through the Channel Tunnel or from Dollands Moor to either Crewe or Kirkdale for 777013, 015 and 049 yet?

 

[Ribbleman]

Is there still not a path through the Channel Tunnel or from Dollands Moor to either Crewe or Kirkdale for 777013, 015 and 049 yet?

According to Real-time Trains they arrived at Arpley Sidings, Warrington at 10.45 this morning. A change from earlier deliveries that would spend the day at Crewe. They are due to move on to Kirkdale in the early hours of Thursday morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Mar 2022 ==

But that's the point, stock hasn't been using it, it has trees growing through the trackbed at the entrance (or at least it did last I went past last year).. Or did I miss read your post? (apologies if I have)

Would a quick fix not be, removed the old shed and vegetation and leave it un electrified, unless I am making it up, don't the 777s have shunt battery?

Yes, all the 777s are able to move short distances on battery power, so there will be no need to provide 3rd rail within depots and sidings. This is a separate issue to the fitment of large batteries to some units to enable services to be extended beyond the limits of the 3rd rail.

 

[Techniquest]

Realtime Trains | 697A 0244 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Arpley Sidings | 16/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 697A 0244 departure from Dollands Moor Sdgs to Arpley Sidings on 16/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I saw this by sheer chance as I left Winsford this morning, I wasn't aware of it running, so imagine my surprise to see a freight working with multiple 777s in it!

Can someone confirm the numbers of the 777s for me please? I'd like to be able to tick them off if I can

 

[507020]

According to Real-time Trains they arrived at Arpley Sidings, Warrington at 10.45 this morning. A change from earlier deliveries that would spend the day at Crewe. They are due to move on to Kirkdale in the early hours of Thursday morning.

So basically too late to see them tonight. Some of the earlier deliveries were passing Earlestown in daylight weren’t they.

I saw this by sheer chance as I left Winsford this morning, I wasn't aware of it running, so imagine my surprise to see a freight working with multiple 777s in it!

Can someone confirm the numbers of the 777s for me please? I'd like to be able to tick them off if I can

That was lucky. As stated above, the numbers of the latest deliveries are 777013, 015 and 049

 

[Techniquest]

I thought there was a high number in there, and that they'd been mentioned. Thanks for the confirmation, I'll add those to my notes. I had left Winsford on the 0905 Liverpool Lime Street to Birmingham New Street, happened to look up when I saw a red 66. Not paying a lot of attention, imagine then my surprise at seeing 777s!

If I'd known they were due, I'd have hung back for a photo/video at Winsford. Never mind, I saw them which is the important bit to me. What I saw, I liked and I really want to have a ride on one!

 

[507020]

I thought there was a high number in there, and that they'd been mentioned. Thanks for the confirmation, I'll add those to my notes. I had left Winsford on the 0905 Liverpool Lime Street to Birmingham New Street, happened to look up when I saw a red 66. Not paying a lot of attention, imagine then my surprise at seeing 777s!

If I'd known they were due, I'd have hung back for a photo/video at Winsford. Never mind, I saw them which is the important bit to me. What I saw, I liked and I really want to have a ride on one!

I managed to have a ride on one from Southport to Birkdale at Christmas and I was impressed but then I realised my mistake that I didn’t choose one of the faster or straighter sections of the line. Apparently ASLEF saw one yesterday at Kirkdale and they didn’t like what they saw at all, even going as far as saying they can rot in the sidings in Poland for all they care.

 

[92002]

I managed to have a ride on one from Southport to Birkdale at Christmas and I was impressed but then I realised my mistake that I didn’t choose one of the faster or straighter sections of the line. Apparently ASLEF saw one yesterday at Kirkdale and they didn’t like what they saw at all, even going as far as saying they can rot in the sidings in Poland for all they care.

There was a public launch Day at Southport a few Months ago. No running though.

Did ASLEF not get an invite and a coffee and cake on the Day.

 

[507020]

There was a public launch Day at Southport a few Months ago. No running though.

Did ASLEF not get an invite and a coffee and cake on the Day.

I suspect not given the state of their relationship with Merseytravel, who specified the train without their input, or that of the RMT.

 

[Ribbleman]

I managed to have a ride on one from Southport to Birkdale at Christmas and I was impressed but then I realised my mistake that I didn’t choose one of the faster or straighter sections of the line. Apparently ASLEF saw one yesterday at Kirkdale and they didn’t like what they saw at all, even going as far as saying they can rot in the sidings in Poland for all they care.

That’s not a helpful or sustainable attitude at this stage of the project. ASLEF must surely have had an opportunity to inspect one of the early deliveries from 2 years ago. In fact, I am very surprised if they were not consulted at a much earlier stage. There was a very good wooden mock-up of part of a carriage, complete with cab, that was shown to press and public over 3 years ago, so why were any potential areas of concern by ASLEF not flagged up then? Unless issues were pointed out but no remedial action was taken.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s not a helpful or sustainable attitude at this stage of the project. ASLEF must have had an opportunity to inspect one of the early deliveries from 2 years ago. In fact, I would be surprised if they had not been consulted at a much earlier stage. There was a very good wooden mock-up of part of a carriage, complete with cab, that was shown to press and public over 3 years ago. Unless any input that they may have made then was subsequently ignored, how can criticism at this stage be justified?

I've sat in the mocked-up cab. If ASLEF/RMT haven't, then goodness only knows why not.

 

[507020]

I've sat in the mocked-up cab. If ASLEF/RMT haven't, then goodness only knows why not.

I have been in the cab of a production unit. ASLEF declined to view a unit until the RMT were happy with them and we are all aware of the hostilities between the RMT and Merseytravel going back several years, including many strikes in 2017. RMT and ASLEF members were instructed not to touch any part of the Stadler equipment until they had come to an agreement with Merseytravel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have been in the cab of a production unit. ASLEF declined to view a unit until the RMT were happy with them and we are all aware of the hostilities between the RMT and Merseytravel going back several years, including many strikes in 2017. RMT and ASLEF members were instructed not to touch any part of the Stadler equipment until they had come to an agreement with Merseytravel.

Can't have people forming their own opinions, can we? The Merseyside industrial relations issue (it's been like that for years and isn't just rail) never ceases to amaze. It's straight off Citizen Smith.

 

[507020]

Can't have people forming their own opinions, can we? The Merseyside industrial relations issue (it's been like that for years and isn't just rail) never ceases to amaze.

Merseyrail do seem to have been having a large intake of new staff with their own opinions recently, who may or may not be members of the respective unions that more experienced staff are. What I’m unsure of is whether if I attempted to join one of the unions having touched all parts of a 777 unit extensively at the open day, I would be declined admission on that basis.

However good they are in reality and barring delays related to covid, I think the issue with their introduction is that they are too different to what came before in too many ways and unlike their (1970s) predecessors, nowhere near enough thought went into gaining union acceptance for them which ultimately is the only thing that matters if they want to have staff to run them.

 

[92002]

Merseyrail do seem to have been having a large intake of new staff with their own opinions recently, who may or may not be members of the respective unions that more experienced staff are. What I’m unsure of is whether if I attempted to join one of the unions having touched all parts of a 777 unit extensively at the open day, I would be declined admission on that basis.

However good they are in reality and barring delays related to covid, I think the issue with their introduction is that they are too different to what came before in too many ways and unlike their (1970s) predecessors, nowhere near enough thought went into gaining union acceptance for them which ultimately is the only thing that matters if they want to have staff to run them.

Perhaps they should just remove the 3rd rail equipment. Convert them to OHL and send the 777s to a more appreciative customer waiting for some better, newer trains.

Meantime the Merseyrail older trains can soldier on till they fall apart. Till the unions enter the 21st century ethos.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps they should just remove the 3rd rail equipment. Convert them to OHL and send the 777s to a more appreciative customer waiting for some better, newer trains.

Meantime the Merseyrail older trains can soldier on till they fall apart. Till the unions enter the 21st century ethos.

I can totally understand the whole DOO issue. But that's sorted, isn't it, with the fitment of guard panels in progress?

Beyond that, "drive them, or step aside so we can offer the job to someone who will" is starting to look attractive. They must be so much nicer to drive than a rotting, uncrashworthy 40-odd year old rattletrap where the driver sits in a tiny little cupboard. I've only sat in the mockup, but the view was excellent and the seat comfortable. The whole thing is just 1980s style posturing, and it's getting to the point that if they are still being awkward it's time to call their bluff.

 

[irish_rail]

I don't blame Aslef for being hostile. Their drivers are basically being downgraded from train drivers to tram drivers. God only knows why Merseyrail opted for what is essentially a tram rather than a decent metro train. I for one hope the 50x remain in service for a good while longer.

 

[Skie]

Nothing tramlike about the 777's

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't blame Aslef for being hostile. Their drivers are basically being downgraded from train drivers to tram drivers. God only knows why Merseyrail opted for what is essentially a tram rather than a decent metro train. I for one hope the 50x remain in service for a good while longer.

What a load of nonsense. Stadler kit is excellent, they are not trams. The staff aren't being subjected to cheap, unreliable rubbish like CAFs, they're getting the highest quality, premium trains in the business, designed specifically for Merseyrail, and not at all on the cheap.

 

[92002]

I don't blame Aslef for being hostile. Their drivers are basically being downgraded from train drivers to tram drivers. God only knows why Merseyrail opted for what is essentially a tram rather than a decent metro train. I for one hope the 50x remain in service for a good while longer.

Very comfortable metro train, the one I was on.

 

[Ribbleman]

Perhaps they should just remove the 3rd rail equipment. Convert them to OHL and send the 777s to a more appreciative customer waiting for some better, newer trains.

The customers are Merseytravel and through them, the public who would rather like to be able to appreciate the trains that have been built for their use.