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LM class 321
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Tottenham Flyer
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Apparently they're keeping 415, 416 and 417. The rest are going. 412 has already disappeared.
87015
Established Member
When and where did 412 get to? It was at Northampton last month, 413 reported at Doncaster which will be the acid test I guess. Can't see 3 from 3 working given LMs inability to maintain anything.
swt_passenger
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There are currently 4 (or is it 3 - St Albans + 2/3??) SX diagrams for LM's 321s, so that would suggest 7 are not needed, but 3 wouldn't be enough.
Edit: just thought that with some of the current track access applications, although the 321s may not all be needed this timetable, they may be needed later. They've just applied to extend another New St - Coventry service through to Northampton - that might need another 350. Although of course the flip side is that the St Albans shuttle isn't needed long term, when the tram takes over...
Edit: just thought that with some of the current track access applications, although the 321s may not all be needed this timetable, they may be needed later. They've just applied to extend another New St - Coventry service through to Northampton - that might need another 350. Although of course the flip side is that the St Albans shuttle isn't needed long term, when the tram takes over...
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I'm fairly sure 5 sets are used Monday-Friday. 1 obviously on the St. Albans branch, and there are two peak hour diagrams for a pair of units, and I'm fairly sure one of these diagrams does an out and back Tring service during the day if I remember correctly. I'm open to be corrected of course, but I'm fairly sure that's the utilisation. What I don't understand is why don't they just order another 3 (if that's how many 321's they plan to keep) 350/2's and release the last 3, instead of whittling it down to 3 they need. Then they could be deployed out of Liverpool Street or Kings Cross. Or maybe even Northern would be interested in them. It just doesn't make sense having a tiny fleet. But then I suppose money and common sense are the obstacles preventing this from happening...
Aye- if money and common sense were available, LM would have that bigger fleet of 350s, Northern would have a few more 333s and FCC would have just 321s (add in the 322s, which are 322s in not-really-disguise) or 317s (depending upon what would be more use to NXEA).
I'm just thinking about your 317/321 comment. (This won't happen I highly doubt), But if LM do obtain the extra 350's to have a uniform fleet, the 7 321's could go to NXEA. Also, move the 13 321's from FCC to NXEA. This means that they would be receiving 20 units. The new NXEA 379's are supposedly going to release 21 317's. Send 20 of these to FCC so they have a complete fleet of 32 317's instead of a mixed fleet of 317/321's. The additional 317 left over could be an eight hundred numbered set, in which case just renumber it in the five hundred series. These exchanged 20 321's could be used on the Cambridge services as I'm pretty sure they have a higher gearing than 317's and would be better suited to faster/longer services. The displaced Cambridge operating 317's which would probably be 317/6's could be reseated in a 3+2 seating formation, and these can be used on inner surburban services alongside the 315's and 317/5's greatly improving capacity on the Chingford/Hertford East lines and other stopping services. I know this is extremely unlikely to happen, but do you reckon it will work? As for the 322's, I've read that NXEA are getting them this year/2012 to help out during the olympics. I don't know if the plan to renumber them as 321/5's is still going ahead. After they've served during the Olympic period they could go to Northern... Or NXEA could keep them.
tbtc
Veteran Member
If only.
I agree that this is a real wasted opportunity - the DFT seem keen for TOCs to have uniform fleets of DMUs (e.g. ATW/ FGW have no 156s, EMT lost the 170s which ran in the East Midlands under Central Trains...) yet allow such haphazard EMU allocations (with Northern and LM both having tiny numbers of 321s etc).
There are currently 3 SX 321 diagrams requiring 5 of the 7 units.
This is going down to 1 diagram on the Abbey Branch and 1 diagram SSuX doing Watford - Euston peak hour shuttle jobs. I expect that second one to disappear pretty quickly - and the Abbey Shuttle to cancelled more than it runs!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What he said!
This is going down to 1 diagram on the Abbey Branch and 1 diagram SSuX doing Watford - Euston peak hour shuttle jobs. I expect that second one to disappear pretty quickly - and the Abbey Shuttle to cancelled more than it runs!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What he said!
Thanks for the information.
Just out of interest, how have they managed to stand down the other 4 sets? More efficient maintenance which releases extra 350's or have they shortened some peak hour 350 workings which releases these 4 sets?ah good quote from thejunction Also from December, the number of London Midland Class 321 diagrams has been cut to just three - the St Albans branch shuttle and a double set at peak times only which suggests there may be further fleet reductions in the coming months. The new diagrams are available on the 'Diagrams' page'
Thanks for the information.
They don't really need any of the 321s really. They should be able to cover all the existing diagrams with the 350s, but due to whatever reasons they don't. The 321s should be shipped off elsewhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Diagram 1:
Abbey Shuttle M-F
Diagram 2:
0540 Northampton Depot - MKC ECS
0620 MKC - EUS
0728 EUS - WFJ ECS
0755 WFJ - EUS
Camden Roads all day
1805 EUS - NMP
1945 NMP - Northampton Depot
Scud
Member
Of the 7 x 321s currently under LM control, this is what they're up to:
321411 - at Ilford undergoing C4 exam.
321412 - spare at Northampton King's Heath. She was out working Euston-Watford's yesterday & with a few hours to kill at Camden.
321413 - at Doncaster on C6 exam.
321414 - working the St.Albans Abbey branch today & tomorrow.
321415 - at Ilford on short term hire to NXEA.
321416 - inside Northampton King's Heath being re-liveried into LM colours.
321417 - at Northampton King's Heath undergoing traction repairs.
321411 - at Ilford undergoing C4 exam.
321412 - spare at Northampton King's Heath. She was out working Euston-Watford's yesterday & with a few hours to kill at Camden.
321413 - at Doncaster on C6 exam.
321414 - working the St.Albans Abbey branch today & tomorrow.
321415 - at Ilford on short term hire to NXEA.
321416 - inside Northampton King's Heath being re-liveried into LM colours.
321417 - at Northampton King's Heath undergoing traction repairs.
TomJ93
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Have I got any chance of seeing the Silverlink liveried 321 running tomorrrow?
Scud
Member
With the exception of 321414 running the St.Albans Abbey branch, no other 321s are out to play tomorrow. 412, 416 & 417 will all be at stabled at Northampton King's Heath.
swt_passenger
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By that do you mean 2 diagrams are for double units, ie a single one on the St Albans, and two 8 car diagrams? Wouldn't that normally be described as 5 diagrams?
Scud
Member
Of the 7 diagrams:
- 2 run coupled as an 8 car all day, starting & ending at N'hampton King's Heath (they only cover 171 miles & work 3 passenger services - 2W53, 2J06 & 2N23.)
- 2 are stabled at N'hampton King's Heath.
- 2 are (meant to be) stabled at Bletchley TMD.
- 1 is the St.Albans Abbey branch unit.
No 321s come out to play at weekends.
- 2 run coupled as an 8 car all day, starting & ending at N'hampton King's Heath (they only cover 171 miles & work 3 passenger services - 2W53, 2J06 & 2N23.)
- 2 are stabled at N'hampton King's Heath.
- 2 are (meant to be) stabled at Bletchley TMD.
- 1 is the St.Albans Abbey branch unit.
No 321s come out to play at weekends.
Sorry - yes it would. My apologies! I was simplifying it somewhat which didn't really work!
Tottenham Flyer
Member
From a C6 exam, I've always understood that to include "painting", does anyone know what livery 413 is being put into? Surely not LM!
Chris125
Established Member
I think its worth pointing out that LM have been after a 'growth build' of 350's for some time - the DfT are due to decide on this in the near future, along with similar units for Manchester-Glasgow. This would presumably both lengthen existing services and eliminate the remaining 321's.
Chris
Chris
tbtc
Veteran Member
Hope this happens.
The 350s seem decent machines (I've not used them personally), and an order of more would sort out some of the "oddities" (like the small number of 321s at LM) and hopefully give a template EMU class for middle distance travel (if Manchester - Glasgow is suitable, then what about London - Norwich?)...
TomJ93
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What number is the silverlink liveried one?
Tottenham Flyer
Member
tbtc, it's not uncommon anymore to see a pair of 321's working a Liv St to Norwich.
I believe that there is a diagram for it now. I'm sure it's the 1720 off the Street, and either the 2100 or 2130 return from Norwich (Mon-Fri only).
I believe that there is a diagram for it now. I'm sure it's the 1720 off the Street, and either the 2100 or 2130 return from Norwich (Mon-Fri only).
The 1702 ex-LST is the 12-car 321 to Naarich, and then 1930 back up.
The 1702 is a bit of an all shacks service, calling at places like Marks Tey
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