HS2 Euston - number of platforms... again...

[camflyer]

Shame the plan has been cut back in terms of planforms (what's the betting we'll be back in 10 years to add an extension?) but let's just get on and get the thing built.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shame the plan has been cut back in terms of planforms (what's the betting we'll be back in 10 years to add an extension?) but let's just get on and get the thing built.

To be fair you don't need the 11th platform if the eastern leg is not being built.

 

[Geezertronic]

So how many platforms will Euston have in total once the work is completed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So how many platforms will Euston have in total once the work is completed?

25 I believe - 10 HS2 and 15 regular (1-3, 4-7, 8-11 and 12-15).

 

[camflyer]

The BBC and many other media reports in more or less detail are all based on this press release from HS2: https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/first-look-at-new-designs-for-hs2-london-euston-station

I like the look of those transparent tower blocks above the station. Are they using some new stealth technology?

 

[Nottingham59]

Does the design allow for any pedestrian access from Eversholt St? Preferably near Phoenix Rd to allow direct access to St Pancras....

 

[Howardh]

I hope the Euston Tap will survive?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Another UK station (like London Bridge) that looks like it's in Switzerland. We need more of this.

Though unlike at the new London Bridge, I've never had the slightest problem finding my way round at any Swiss station. I like places which [I think!] look "nice" - but that has to come second to functionality and ease of way-finding for a public transport interchange.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though unlike at the new London Bridge, I've never had the slightest problem finding my way round at any Swiss station. I like places which [I think!] look "nice" - but that has to come second to functionality and ease of way-finding for a public transport interchange.

That's just a matter of good signage, and I'd agree that the signage is a bit lacking at London Bridge.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That's just a matter of good signage, and I'd agree that the signage is a bit lacking at London Bridge.

Yes of course, signage is important - but so is a "readable" layout in the first place. Once I have a mental overview of a station, then the signs are a back-up for certainty, or for detail, but I already have an idea of my general direction of travel (so to speak!).

A place where you keep having to stop to be "told" what to do by looking for signs to follow is far more of a problem than a station with an intuitive layout. Waterloo, with its platforms laid out in front of you in numerical order, doesn't need lots of signs saying "this way to platform No x"; arriving at London Bridge from some directions, I have no idea even where any of the platforms might be! (From this point of view it's far worse than its previous manifestation ... but then commercial needs trump ease of passenger use of course.)

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

25 I believe - 10 HS2 and 15 regular (1-3, 4-7, 8-11 and 12-15).

i thought it was 13 regular and originally 11 hs2 now cut to 10

 

[snowball]

i thought it was 13 regular and originally 11 hs2 now cut to 10

But presumably the cutting of HS2 from 11 to 10 results in an increase in the number of non-HS2 platforms remaining?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But presumably the cutting of HS2 from 11 to 10 results in an increase in the number of non-HS2 platforms remaining?

I do seem to recall that the benefit of only doing 10 was that you don't need to do it in two phases as less of the existing building is affected. So that would make some sense, i.e. that the 11th HS2 platform would go where 14 and 15 are now.

 

[CAF397]

That's just a matter of good signage, and I'd agree that the signage is a bit lacking at London Bridge.

I've only used Birmingham New Street a couple of times since the redevelopment, and it's one where I genuinely get lost. Both leaving via the exit I wish, and also trying to get to the right platform. I've completely lost my orientation there. Have to say the signage isn't very good there.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does the design allow for any pedestrian access from Eversholt St? Preferably near Phoenix Rd to allow direct access to St Pancras....

yes, assuming the NR side of the station gets rebuilt.

Though unlike at the new London Bridge, I've never had the slightest problem finding my way round at any Swiss station. I like places which [I think!] look "nice" - but that has to come second to functionality and ease of way-finding for a public transport interchange.

I’ve never had a problem at the new London Bridge. Platforms are all in numerical order, and the access to them is through one large concourse. I don’t know how it could be any more simple.


the good news is that the guy in charge of building this station also built Blackfriars and London Bridge (in the latter case, he left mid build for this job).

 

[CW2]

I do seem to recall that the benefit of only doing 10 was that you don't need to do it in two phases as less of the existing building is affected. So that would make some sense, i.e. that the 11th HS2 platform would go where 14 and 15 are now.

I think that the number of NR platforms is not affected by the change from 11 to 10 HS2 platforms. Rather, there may be less land take required on the western edge of the site.

 

[FOH]

I've never had a problem at the new London Bridge. Platforms are all in numerical order, and the access to them is through one large concourse. I don’t know how it could be any more simple.


the good news is that the guy in charge of building this station also built Blackfriars and London Bridge (in the latter case, he left mid build for this job).

Unless you arrive at the low level platforms concourse, and go through through the gate line as you do when you want platforms 1-9 and think where the heck are they?!

Unless you arrive at the large concourse from the tube and want platforms 10-15 which are hidden away in a dingy corner behind the ticket office

 

[snowball]

I think that the number of NR platforms is not affected by the change from 11 to 10 HS2 platforms. Rather, there may be less land take required on the western edge of the site.

I think that idea was ruled out in discussions on previous pages of this thread. For example, my view was expressed in #59 and #101, and confirmed by others in #60, #102 and #104.

I would imagine the location of the western boundary of the site was determined a substantial number of years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've only used Birmingham New Street a couple of times since the redevelopment, and it's one where I genuinely get lost. Both leaving via the exit I wish, and also trying to get to the right platform. I've completely lost my orientation there. Have to say the signage isn't very good there.

"The pub is c**p, the loos cost cash and the signage is appalling", said MJ Hibbett of the original. But the new one does indeed have terrible signage. The one it really lacks is a big, simple "Bullring this way" sign, as everyone who has been there before knows where that is. The signs actually say something like the names of roads I can never remember.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2022 ==

I think that the number of NR platforms is not affected by the change from 11 to 10 HS2 platforms. Rather, there may be less land take required on the western edge of the site.

I don't believe that is correct. The reason for the descoping was specifically that it meant it could be built in one phase because it has less of an effect on the existing layout. It might be that they fill in 14-15 and put shops there or something, but I am pretty certain the whole point was that they would only need to take 16 to finish the job.

Until HS2 full service, it would be extremely difficult to operate the full Avanti and LNR service using 11 platforms (LO appear to now use both 9 and 10). Wasn't the original plan that they would bulld the first few, launch WCML HS2 service on some routes, then build the other ones which would then be feasible as the classic service would then be less frequent?

 

[Bald Rick]

Until HS2 full service, it would be extremely difficult to operate the full Avanti and LNR service using 11 platforms

its a hell of a job getting it to operate off 15 platforms.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

"The pub is c**p, the loos cost cash and the signage is appalling", said MJ Hibbett of the original. But the new one does indeed have terrible signage. The one it really lacks is a big, simple "Bullring this way" sign, as everyone who has been there before knows where that is. The signs actually say something like the names of roads I can never remember.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2022 ==



I don't believe that is correct. The reason for the descoping was specifically that it meant it could be built in one phase because it has less of an effect on the existing layout. It might be that they fill in 14-15 and put shops there or something, but I am pretty certain the whole point was that they would only need to take 16 to finish the job.

Until HS2 full service, it would be extremely difficult to operate the full Avanti and LNR service using 11 platforms (LO appear to now use both 9 and 10). Wasn't the original plan that they would bulld the first few, launch WCML HS2 service on some routes, then build the other ones which would then be feasible as the classic service would then be less frequent?

There is no plans to increase the number of NR platforms to 15!!!! You have no evidence it was 13 last time i checked even when they were cutting it to 10. Wikipedia uses this source https://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/nex...ractices-says-design-director/5111593.article Can’t see the article so admin dont ask, if anyone can post it that would be great but apparently it says 10 hs2 and 13 conventional

 

[The Planner]

its a hell of a job getting it to operate off 15 platforms.

Wait until its down to 14 for a bit!

 

[Bald Rick]

Wait until its down to 14 for a bit!

well, a long time ago, I got the whole service off 10 platforms

 

[david1212]

Shame the plan has been cut back in terms of planforms (what's the betting we'll be back in 10 years to add an extension?) but let's just get on and get the thing built.

I admire your optimism that the combined passenger numbers on both HS2 and the classic routes will require this.

HS2 trains are proposed to be 400m 1000+ seat capacity. Will 3000 per hour want to travel by HS2 to/from Birmingham / Birmingham Interchange and another 3000 per hour to Manchester most hours ? If not 2 trains per hour will suffice. Any peaks ought to be able to be platformed if they can be pathed throughout.

 

[Mikey C]

I assume the remaining WCML services will be more like glorified LNWR type services, rather than the full service Virgin/Avanti with proper first class and meals etc, so the turnaround time will be shorter?

 

[CW2]

I admire your optimism that the combined passenger numbers on both HS2 and the classic routes will require this.

HS2 trains are proposed to be 400m 1000+ seat capacity. Will 3000 per hour want to travel by HS2 to/from Birmingham / Birmingham Interchange and another 3000 per hour to Manchester most hours ? If not 2 trains per hour will suffice. Any peaks ought to be able to be platformed if they can be pathed throughout.

I believe the plan is for the HS2 trains to be 200m sets, so if there aren't enough passengers for 3 x 400m train per hour then one or more of the three departures could run as a 200m train instead. Frequency of service is every bit as important as journey time, so it is unlikely HS2 would want to run less frequently to Birmingham and Manchester in particular.

 

[Gareth]

I'm pretty sure Birmingham/Manchester trains are supposed to be 400m long, once their respective new stations are built. If not, I don't see how they can justify the infrastructure.

You might be getting mixed up with the rolling stock itself, which will all be "classic compatible", I believe, rather than the wider GC gauge. Unless that's changed again since I last looked.

 

[CW2]

I'm pretty sure Birmingham/Manchester trains are supposed to be 400m long, once their respective new stations are built. If not, I don't see how they can justify the infrastructure.

You might be getting mixed up with the rolling stock itself, which will all be "classic compatible", I believe, rather than the wider GC gauge. Unless that's changed again since I last looked.

The infrastructure is designed for 400m long trains, but the trains will be 200m units. So any individual train might be 200m or 400m long.

 

[Gareth]

Well, quite. All I was saying was that the plan is for 3tph 400m services on London-Birmingham/Manchester. I make that about double the existing capacity, along with fewer intermediate connections along the way, but the government nonetheless believes it will be necessary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, quite. All I was saying was that the plan is for 3tph 400m services on London-Birmingham/Manchester. I make that about double the existing capacity, along with fewer intermediate connections along the way, but the government nonetheless believes it will be necessary.

The actual trains are 200m, though, a 400m train will be two of them. Therefore, it will be possible to run 200m on quieter services, just like is done now on various multiple unit operations.