GWR Brighton services axed from May timetable change

[mugam4]

As has been said, despite being limited stop, these services weren't actually all that faster due to pathing, the short station dwells, and general nimbleness of the 377s, and so GWR diesels under the wires all the way to Brighton won't be missed, as long as the connectivity can be maintained.

I think the west coastway is a few platforms (unbalanced 'overtaking' platforms at Barnham and Worthing, etc etc, this has been discussed previously at length on other threads talking about this very service) off having a true 'fast' service that has both less stops and is actually beneficially faster.

Where these services were very crucial, at least pre-pandemic, was the morning inbound and evening outbound from Brighton, where they filled an important gap in the pattern - usually full and standing with local passengers, and so significant dispersal when they didn't run (not unusual). I've witnessed both of these services leave passengers behind at the first/last stops into Brighton.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is this an extremely recent decision, because the four normal GW weekday services at Brighton (2 each way) are in RTT but hidden by being CANcelled for the whole May-Dec timetable period?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is this an extremely recent decision, because the four normal GW weekday services at Brighton (2 each way) are in RTT but hidden by being CANcelled for the whole May-Dec timetable period?

Yes it is!

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes it is!

Thanks. Is that a good general tip, to look for stuff cancelled for the whole period?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks. Is that a good general tip, to look for stuff cancelled for the whole period?

It really does vary by TOC

 

[bramling]

Yes it is!

Do we think there any other obscure services which are likely to disappear, either in time for May, or in forthcoming new timetables in the near future?

GA to Kings Lynn has been floated in the past as being on dodgy ground, but so far it’s in the TT for May.

 

[Mainline421]

Thanks. Is that a good general tip, to look for stuff cancelled for the whole period?

They aren't shown as cancelled (not to say they will run, but the data hasn't been updated yet).

 

[pompeyfan]

Do Southern have the stock to pick up 1S91 completely and 1V98 as far as Southampton or will passengers just be expected to dissipate onto existing services? If the latter then that’s poor by the DfT, as others have said they’re both very busy services, and the calling pattern appears more attractive even if the journey time isn’t significantly quicker.

 

[infobleep]

The biggest city in the country, to the 2nd largest Scottish one? I think not and many will do the main journeys

The Brighton - Great Malvern is a huge length of journey for generally regional or even local stops. And it runs only a few times a day. There is obviously a flow down to Southampton via Salisbury which is indeed why the service will continue to go to Portsmouth. Trying to connect lots of local journeys together stitched into one service isn't always particular efficient, not reliable and often runs as a 2 or 3-car due to that being the stock available.

If their is an obvious flow down to Southampton via Salosbury, why is the train continuing to Portsmouth? Surely it would terminate at Southampton?

But surely not GWR’s problem. SN should be providing both calls and capacity.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==


If we’re looking at the only weekday eastbound service, the one that starts 1041 from Great Malvern, then it terminates at Warminster from May 16th:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C38335/2022-05-16/detailed

Surely its the DfTs problem or GBRs problem?

I suspect a regular (even 1tp2h) Bristol-Brighton service would be well patronised, including a decent number of end-to-end journies, and if it existed now I doubt anyone would want to see it axed. But we don't live in that world, and GWR needs every last carriage it can get working on its core routes. A single same-platform change is perfectly acceptable really.

It's acceptable if the waiting time isn't too long.

 

[swt_passenger]

They aren't shown as cancelled (not to say they will run, but the data hasn't been updated yet).

This is what I’m seeing, only when CAN is selected on RTT

Realtime Trains | Departures from Brighton all day on 16/05/2022

Train information at Brighton all day on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

but the default RTT settings don’t show them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2022 ==

If their is an obvious flow down to Southampton via Salosbury, why is the train continuing to Portsmouth? Surely it would terminate at Southampton?

I think what was meant is that the worthwhile flows to Southampton will still be met by the hourly Cardiff/Bristol to Portsmouth services via Southampton, which carry on as normal. In the hour that the eastbound Brighton ran it was an additional service as far as Southampton, and I doubt any people heading to Southampton used it specially.

 

[RPI]

Yes it is!

Anything to do with the rumoured withdrawal of some Castle sets and needing to step up units in their place?

 

[JonathanH]

Anything to do with the rumoured withdrawal of some Castle sets and needing to step up units in their place?

Isn't that primarily 769 led?

 

[Horizon22]

If their is an obvious flow down to Southampton via Salosbury, why is the train continuing to Portsmouth? Surely it would terminate at Southampton?

Soton-Portsmouth is also a fairly key flow and also where services have traditionally terminated. That’s rather different to irregularly extending all the way to Brighton.

 

[RPI]

Isn't that primarily 769 led?

I honestly don't know, it may just be wibble, I've heard the rumours at work however, not from any of the usual reliable sources. Emissions have been cited, but again, it could all be wibble

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Anything to do with the rumoured withdrawal of some Castle sets and needing to step up units in their place?

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread the unit saved becomes the replacement for the withdrawn GWR cl158

 

[WesternLancer]

But with respect, it is a GWR green train and timetables must show it as a GWR. Do passenger actually loojk at the destination display on the front or a train ? Yeah, I know some folk were clued up on the SR two digit route numbers - back when everything was painted blue and grey.

At Brighton you are more likely to see it on the station destination board the other side of the barrier - where you would not really see the train esp if a general passenger - it would stand out as a very unusual destination to be listed on the boards there - esp since the removal of other long distance destinations some years back now (the XC trains). You would not be looking at the front of the train at that point of course.

Anyone with any sense of adventure would want to know how it would get to its ultimate destination!

 

[Mainline421]

This is what I’m seeing, only when CAN is selected on RTT

Realtime Trains | Departures from Brighton all day on 16/05/2022

Train information at Brighton all day on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

but the default RTT settings don’t show them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2022 ==


I think what was meant is that the worthwhile flows to Southampton will still be met by the hourly Cardiff/Bristol to Portsmouth services via Southampton, which carry on as normal. In the hour that the eastbound Brighton ran it was an additional service as far as Southampton, and I doubt any people heading to Southampton used it specially.

Strangely this the case for the first week only, I was looking further in the future where no CAN GWR to Brighton are showing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Strangely this the case for the first week only, I was looking further in the future where no CAN GWR to Brighton are showing.

Ah, well that’s a bit odd, isn’t it? Once I’d read cancelled 16th May until 9th Dec 22 in the RTT service info panel, I didn’t look any further into the period…

 

[route101]

Looks like you can only do the GWR to Brighton on weekdays from my understanding.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like you can only do the GWR to Brighton on weekdays from my understanding.

Nothing at all from May 16th, as the link in the first post reported. If they’re appearing in RTT from May 23rd I‘m assuming they’ll drop off RTT sometime before May.

 

[Western Sunset]

From observations I made at Westbury last week, the busiest trains by far were those on the Cardiff - Portsmouth route. Some appeared full to standing. West of England IETs, on the other hand, had plenty of room on them.

 

[infobleep]

Soton-Portsmouth is also a fairly key flow and also where services have traditionally terminated. That’s rather different to irregularly extending all the way to Brighton.

But don't South Western Railway run Southampton to Portsmouth services? Isn't it also a two-track railway.

I thought services to Brighton were traditional. They have been around for a long time.

 

[swt_passenger]

But don't South Western Railway run Southampton to Portsmouth services? Isn't it also a two-track railway.

I thought services to Brighton were traditional. They have been around for a long time.

SWR only run the all stations stopper Portsmouth to Southampton, and GWR provide the only fast service. The second SWR semi-fast service intended for the new franchise now appears to have been dropped.

 

[pompeyfan]

SWR only run the all stations stopper Portsmouth to Southampton, and GWR provide the only fast service. The second SWR semi-fast service intended for the new franchise now appears to have been dropped.

Which is complete madness, although the idea to extend the Southampton stopper to Weymouth (and then Poole) was always a curious one. That’s for another thread though.

 

[RPI]

From observations I made at Westbury last week, the busiest trains by far were those on the Cardiff - Portsmouth route. Some appeared full to standing. West of England IETs, on the other hand, had plenty of room on them.

The IET'S that stop at Westbury are usually quieter as they are the stoppers, the fast IET'S have been incredibly busy of the past week or so due to half term.

 

[Towers]

The IET'S that stop at Westbury are usually quieter as they are the stoppers, the fast IET'S have been incredibly busy of the past week or so due to half term.

They'll also generally be 9 or 10 car, as opposed to the 3, 4 or 5 car of the Portsmouth trains.

 

[The exile]

SWR only run the all stations stopper Portsmouth to Southampton, and GWR provide the only fast service. The second SWR semi-fast service intended for the new franchise now appears to have been dropped.

Linking Portsmouth directly with (historically) Bath and (currently) Filton no doubt goes down well in Naval circles, though I doubt it provides much of a flow nowadays.

 

[swt_passenger]

Linking Portsmouth directly with (historically) Bath and (currently) Filton no doubt goes down well in Naval circles, though I doubt it provides much of a flow nowadays.

To some limited extent, but AIUI the vast majority of Naval personnel will never actually have anything to do with either location. They’re civil service organisations with a relatively small proportion of uniformed personnel, mostly engineering branches.

 

[The exile]

To some limited extent, but AIUI the vast majority of Naval personnel will never actually have anything to do with either location. They’re civil service organisations with a relatively small proportion of uniformed personnel, mostly engineering branches.

“Naval circles” in the widest possible sense….
More practical is the operational inconvenience of terminating trains at Southampton, rather than at a “natural” terminus, particularly when that terminus conveniently provides ferry connections.

 

[Towers]

“Naval circles” in the widest possible sense….
More practical is the operational inconvenience of terminating trains at Southampton, rather than at a “natural” terminus, particularly when that terminus conveniently provides ferry connections.

Indeed, as well as the lack of a suitable crew and/or traction depot for the first & last trains if they were to terminate at SOU.