Transpennine Industrial Relations

[YorkshireBear]

Everyone faces a cost of living crisis st the moment, and train crew aren’t exactly on poverty wages. Really beggars belief that the unions would even think they are likely to get a sympathetic ear from either the public or government at the moment. Putting off passengers and undermining revenue at a time when their industry desperately needs to get bums back on seats is also going to do little for their members job prospects in the long run. A shrinking railway isn’t in their interests, but they seem to be on a course to achieve that.

I agree, I think it's tone deaf. Pre covid it would probably have seen support and be seen as reasonable.

There was always going to be consequences to a global crises like this. On the flip side I think the government control and cost cutting of the railways is a disgrace and they should be pushing as hard as possible to get people back. Both sides are in the wrong I feel, and the only person losing is the passenger, which will then mean the railway loses.

My lack of sympathy and strong views mostly comes from having my commute disrupted daily by tpe, I've missed an anniversary meal with my wife and various other engagements due to just cancelling almost everything for a few hours due to lack of drivers.

 

[Frankfurt]

and train crew aren’t exactly on poverty wages.

Yawn

 

[nedchester]

Train crew need to wake up and smell the coffee.

The railway is in the brown stuff financially and striking is just going to make things worse. The railway is effectively in the public sector now and maybe looking at the wage rises of those who genuinely put themselves out over the past two years might give them a reality check.

Making other demands like extra money to use “new technology” (ticket scanners) shows how devoid from reality they really are.

I think the Government is up for a fight on this……remember the miners and the print workers…….

 

[wobman]

Train crew need to wake up and smell the coffee.

The railway is in the brown stuff financially and striking is just going to make things worse. The railway is effectively in the public sector now and maybe looking at the wage rises of those who genuinely put themselves out over the past two years might give them a reality check.

Making other demands like extra money to use “new technology” (ticket scanners) shows how devoid from reality they really are.

I think the Government is up for a fight on this……remember the miners and the print workers…….

How long have you worked for TPE on the railways in a traincrew based role ?

 

[Moonshot]

Staff are perfectly entitled to strike. And when they do go on strike, it impacts on service provision. It doesn't get much simpler than that. It's absolutely right that TPE guards are withdrawing their labour, as they have been offered a terrible deal.

 

[wobman]

I agree, I think it's tone deaf. Pre covid it would probably have seen support and be seen as reasonable.

There was always going to be consequences to a global crises like this. On the flip side I think the government control and cost cutting of the railways is a disgrace and they should be pushing as hard as possible to get people back. Both sides are in the wrong I feel, and the only person losing is the passenger, which will then mean the railway loses.

My lack of sympathy and strong views mostly comes from having my commute disrupted daily by tpe, I've missed an anniversary meal with my wife and various other engagements due to just cancelling almost everything for a few hours due to lack of drivers.

The lack of drivers is not the drivers fault though, the drivers have no power over recruitment and train resources or train planning.

 

[dk1]

I think the Government is up for a fight on this……remember the miners and the print workers…….

Not heard anyone use that old chestnut since last year

 

[LowLevel]

Train crew need to wake up and smell the coffee.

The railway is in the brown stuff financially and striking is just going to make things worse. The railway is effectively in the public sector now and maybe looking at the wage rises of those who genuinely put themselves out over the past two years might give them a reality check.

Making other demands like extra money to use “new technology” (ticket scanners) shows how devoid from reality they really are.

I think the Government is up for a fight on this……remember the miners and the print workers…….

On the other hand, EMR guards went out on strike and the DfT still signed off a deal, though there was plenty of compromise, that was radically different to the original full and final offer. I think it depends on the circumstances myself.

 

[Fokx]

My lack of sympathy and strong views mostly comes from having my commute disrupted daily by tpe, I've missed an anniversary meal with my wife and various other engagements due to just cancelling almost everything for a few hours due to lack of drivers.

And yet with an improved offer for rest day working for both drivers, and conductors doing voluntary overtime, you wouldn’t have any disruption at all

 

[wobman]

Not heard anyone use that old chestnut since last year

It's the same posters again and again.....

 

[nedchester]

Not heard anyone use that old chestnut since last year

Be careful not to trip up on your arrogance.

The Government are intent on cuts and up for a fight.

 

[wobman]

Be careful not to trip up on your arrogance.

The Government are intent on cuts and up for a fight.

So your not traincrew but your in a government dept now, is that the DFT ?

 

[Moonshot]

Be careful not to trip up on your arrogance.

The Government are intent on cuts and up for a fight.

I will 100% guarantee you that eventually, the TPE guards will get an improved offer and then settle for that. It's called fighting for better conditions.

 

[Fokx]

maybe looking at the wage rises of those who genuinely put themselves out over the past two years might give them a reality check.

The industrial action taking place isn’t about pay or pay rises. It’s action against the inequality between grades when it comes to paying out for overtime and enhancements for Sundays. A conductor and driver working the same train on similar hours and similar shift pattern dealing with disruption such as a line closure or failed train etc will be treated disproportionately.

All train crew are currently on the base salary from three years ago with no reflections of minimum wage increase or inflation etc.

The other part of the argument is the rather complicated technology payment productivity agreement for physically scanning tickets. (I’m not going to go into this again personally as the deeper you delve the more complex and contradictory it becomes)

 

[43096]

And how many have had no payrise in 3 years now? That's a huge cut when you look at the rise in inflation. Maybe ok if you are mortgage free and live alone, but for many traincrew the struggle is real. There aren't too many industries where there has been no payrise in the last 3 years. And yes, we had to go out in the blackest parts of the pandemic when many where safely tucked òut of harms way at home, and risk getting infected or bringing the virus home to our families (one driver in the southwest sticks in my mind here - he picked up covid at work, gave it to his wife, who died of it!). So a little gratitude in a modest wage increase after a challenging few years would be nice thanks.

Do you realise just how self-entitled that comes across as?

There’s been plenty of people been furloughed for much of the last two years, not knowing if they’ll have a job to go back to. Train crew have been lucky to carry on with full pay throughout (although go and ask your open access colleagues).

And please stop playing the “key worker” card, it doesn’t sit well. There’s been plenty of others who have been massively more important in keeping the country running and have also had at least the same level of risk, such as shop workers and nurses.

 

[the sniper]

Not heard anyone use that old chestnut since last year

You'd have to have an incredibly short memory to forget them on this forum...

 

[dk1]

You'd have to have an incredibly short memory to forget them on this forum...

Im practically a goldfish. These comments must be on a loop.

 

[JonathanH]

And how many have had no payrise in 3 years now?

Pay rises stopped for a large part of the economy in 2008 which is 14 years ago.

 

[the sniper]

Do you realise just how self-entitled that comes across as?

There’s been plenty of people been furloughed for much of the last two years, not knowing if they’ll have a job to go back to. Train crew have been lucky to carry on with full pay throughout (although go and ask your open access colleagues).

A Driver I knew was so self-entitled his family got a death in service payout out of his 'luck' to carry on working...

And please stop playing the “key worker” card, it doesn’t sit well. There’s been plenty of others who have been massively more important in keeping the country running and have also had at least the same level of risk, such as shop workers and nurses.

We can but hope they don't get a pay rise either...?

 

[irish_rail]

massively more important in keeping the country running and have also had at least the same level of risk, such as shop workers and nurses.

Yeah and they've all had pay rises!

 

[YorkshireBear]

The lack of drivers is not the drivers fault though, the drivers have no power over recruitment and train resources or train planning.

I thought the lack of drivers was because they don't want to work spare from the depot? The weekend strikes I have no issue with. Plus the fact that somehow someone thought it was clever to agree to drivers being able to refuse work that isn't on their diagram. Which for anyone who isn't train crew is completely bewildering.

 

[irish_rail]

Yeah and they've all had pay rises!

Do you realise just how self-entitled that comes across as?

There’s been plenty of people been furloughed for much of the last two years, not knowing if they’ll have a job to go back to. Train crew have been lucky to carry on with full pay throughout (although go and ask your open access colleagues).

And please stop playing the “key worker” card, it doesn’t sit well. There’s been plenty of others who have been massively more important in keeping the country running and have also had at least the same level of risk, such as shop workers and nurses.

And its fine ill just tell the bank manager I can't pay the mortgage now due to the ridiculous squeeze on everything. The reality is people take on a mortgage based on what they can afford. What they could afford 3 years ago has probably now changed so are we going to sit by and allow all these people to lose their homes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2022 ==

And I confidently predict the railway will go from strength to strength in the next 2 years, and that is why the Government have now gone very quiet on the redundancy rubbish. Railways are the future in an environmentally conscious world. Covid is behind us (hopefully) and I can see the bounce back on packed trains everywhere (ok commuter trains excepted). At worst we may lose a few ticket offices but overall railway staff numbers are going to grow and traincrew will be at the forefront of this. When I drive a train from London to Plymouth with perhaps 10 grand worth of ticket revenue on board am I really not earning my keep?

 

[wobman]

I thought the lack of drivers was because they don't want to work spare from the depot? The weekend strikes I have no issue with.

That would not effect driver availability to cover jobs, if there's a job to cover they come in or are rostered to the job.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That would not effect driver availability to cover jobs, if there's a job to cover they come in or are rostered to the job.

But I thought they weren't working any rest days or overtime because of it? Which is what seems to cause most of the cancellations during the week.

 

[wobman]

I thought the lack of drivers was because they don't want to work spare from the depot? The weekend strikes I have no issue with. Plus the fact that somehow someone thought it was clever to agree to drivers being able to refuse work that isn't on their diagram. Which for anyone who isn't train crew is completely bewildering.

So how is it wrong for traincrew not wanting to work what's not on their diagram ? I do things I'm not diagrammed too quite often as long as it doesn't take me over my day.
But traincrew have families and things like childcare etc to take into consideration.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So how is it wrong for traincrew not wanting to work what's not on their diagram ? I do things I'm not diagrammed too quite often as long as it doesn't take me over my day.
But traincrew have families and things like childcare etc to take into consideration.

I think the truth and what I hear from friends at TPE maybe aren't tying up here. I was of the understanding that even where it doesn't take them over their rostered day they can refuse. If it is the case they are only able to refuse when it takes them over their originally rostered day then I take it back and accept my error!

But that still doesn't cover the, no rest day working or overtime as they aren't allowed to be spare from home.

 

[wobman]

I think the truth and what I hear from friends at TPE maybe aren't tying up here. I was of the understanding that even where it doesn't take them over their rostered day they can refuse. If it is the case they are only able to refuse when it takes them over their originally rostered day then I take it back and accept my error!

But that still doesn't cover the, no rest day working or overtime as they aren't allowed to be spare from home.

Overtime is a choice though, I choose time with my family personally. That's more important to me, I work my committed Sundays and that's enough as I can plan around them rosterd shifts.

 

[D1537]

And please stop playing the “key worker” card, it doesn’t sit well. There’s been plenty of others who have been massively more important in keeping the country running and have also had at least the same level of risk, such as shop workers and nurses.

Yeah and they've all had pay rises!

Teacher here. My annual pay rise last September was zero (and unless the Government changes things it will be zero this September as well).

My pay has dropped 7% in real terms since 2010. If you include the changes to pension contributions that rises to 10%.

 

[Frankfurt]

But I thought they weren't working any rest days or overtime because of it? Which is what seems to cause most of the cancellations during the week.

Drivers aren't working rest days as there is no agreement in place between company and union.
Aslef stance is that company haven't approached them to discuss it so don't expect things to change anytime soon.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Overtime is a choice though, I choose time with my family personally. That's more important to me, I work my committed Sundays and that's enough as I can plan around them rosterd shifts.

It is. But they all seemed to be fine doing it 3 months ago!