Russia invades Ukraine

[nw1]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

What? Is this really true, please tell me not.

I would take the complete opposite tack. I would grant any Ukrainians currently temporary staying here indefinite leave to remain, as well as welcoming refugees here.

 

[Iskra]

The German's are worried, not only because of the risk to their Russian gas supplies (and the ability to pay for them), but because they're heavily embroiled in trade and industrial contracts with Russian companies.
The Italians wanted to exclude their sales of luxury goods and cars from any sanctions.
A lot of Russian money is sloshing around in Italy.

Plenty of Ukrainian money too...

 

[Gostav]

We should have already reduced our need for fossil fuels, then we would no longer need to import them. We burn through far too much energy for no good reason. Our buildings needlessly leak so much heat, you would think the fossil fuel was free…

Also, do you think how many insulation is made from petroleum, coal and gas? An important example is the manufacture of ammonia is from natural gas, the fertilizer industry in Europe has been severely constrained since the energy crisis.

 

[alex397]

What? Is this really true, please tell me not.

I would take the complete opposite tack. I would grant any Ukrainians currently temporary staying here indefinite leave to remain, as well as welcoming refugees here.

Unfortunately I can’t imagine Patel suddenly gaining any ounce of compassion. She is incapable of having any.

 

[Strathclyder]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

If this does indeed turn out to be true, then it merely cranks my already burning dislike of Patel up to 11. Not a ounce of compassion or empathy to be found there and I wouldn't bother looking again anytime soon, she's clearly incapable of either. Truly a reprehensible excuse of a human being.

E: some good news in this respect from @JamesT in post #430. I do sincerely hope that the rules are futher slackened and that we can accept all displaced Ukrainians. It's the very least we could do.

 

[Iskra]

Nobody tell him about Norway then...

Or the 2.4 Mile Gap from Alaska to Russia...

 

[najaB]

My understanding is that Kiev is the romanisation of the Russian name for the city, whereas Kyiv is the romanisation for the Ukrainian name.
Language is an important part of national identity, some see the use of Russian names as a colonial imposition from the Soviet era. Maybe an analogy would be continuing to refer to Madras and Calcutta instead of Chennai and Kolkata?

Thanks for the correction. I had last looked into this a few years ago, before the #KyivNotKiev campaign started.

 

[nw1]

Unfortunately I can’t imagine Patel suddenly gaining any ounce of compassion. She is incapable of having any.

I'm not sure the situation regarding refugees but at least @JamesT 's post below is some good news.

That said, in general I am certainly no fan of Patel. To put it mildly.

 

[JamesT]

What? Is this really true, please tell me not.

I would take the complete opposite tack. I would grant any Ukrainians currently temporary staying here indefinite leave to remain, as well as welcoming refugees here.

Home Secretary announces visa concessions for Ukrainians

Changes allow Ukrainians in the UK to have their visas temporarily extended or to be able to switch onto different visa routes.

www.gov.uk

There has been some loosening of the rules. I wonder whether the stopping of most visa services are because we’ve withdrawn most of our staff from Ukraine as it’s not safe, so there’s nobody actually there to process a visa application?

 

[Iskra]

Home Secretary announces visa concessions for Ukrainians

Changes allow Ukrainians in the UK to have their visas temporarily extended or to be able to switch onto different visa routes.

www.gov.uk

There has been some loosening of the rules. I wonder whether the stopping of most visa services are because we’ve withdrawn most of our staff from Ukraine as it’s not safe, so there’s nobody actually there to process a visa application?

I would hope we would accept all Ukrainians. Traditionally, the UK has always been a safe haven for displaced Europeans and has been much the stonger for it. It's the absolute least we can do.

 

[nw1]

I would hope we would accept all Ukrainians. Traditionally, the UK has always been a safe haven for displaced Europeans and has been much the stonger for it. It's the absolute least we can do.

Quite. And if any of the anti-immigration brigade complain, maybe they should take a trip to Kyiv to see what it's like for themselves.

 

[Scotrail314209]

What do we think will come of the threats to Finland and Sweden? I don't much like the sound of them at all.

 

[oldman]

Kiev is officially both an English and Russian exonym, where the former is derived from the latter.

What do you mean by 'officially' an English exonym? Commonly used certainly but not in the same category as Rome or Warsaw, where only the terminally-pretentious would use the name in the relevant national language.

 

[Loppylugs]

Anyone see the tank veer to the left and deliberately flatten a car ? Amazingly the poor old boy survived but looked extremely traumatised. Makes you wish someone could have chucked a couple of hand grenades in the tank and shut the lid down tight.

 

[GusB]

Anyone see the tank veer to the left and deliberately flatten a car ? Amazingly the poor old boy survived but looked extremely traumatised. Makes you wish someone could have chucked a couple of hand grenades in the tank and shut the lid down tight.

Channel 4 News said that "a tank skidded, running over an innocent car". Skidded, my foot!

 

[Strathclyder]

Channel 4 News said that "a tank skidded, running over an innocent car". Skidded, my foot!

Skidded. 'Accidentally on purpose' is what's missing from that quote.

 

[the sniper]

What do we think will come of the threats to Finland and Sweden? I don't much like the sound of them at all.

I think Putin's made it more likely that they will now join NATO, which most probably wouldn't have happened otherwise. I almost can't believe Putin wouldn't know these threats are counter productive, if he genuinely doesn't want them to join NATO, so it's probably more concerning to consider what the actual intent is... Including Sweden in the threat seems particularly bold and illogical.

 

[brad465]

Apparently the situation is so bad that even the Taliban are calling for peace/calm (that's if they are running Afghanistan as the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan"):

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1497111486954717199

BREAKING: The Taliban calls on Russia and Ukraine to “resolve the crisis through dialogue and peaceful means.”

Also reported on other media sites:

Taliban calls for calm in Ukraine

The Taliban’s statement is notably not a strong condemnation of Russia’s military actions in Ukraine

www.independent.co.uk

The Taliban has weighed in on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine by calling for “restraint by both sides” and saying it was monitoring the situation.

A statement shared by Abdul Qahar Balkhi, a spokesperson for the Taliban’s foreign affairs ministry called for “both sides of the conflict” to resolve the crisis “in line with its foreign policy of neutrality”.

Since it was shared online, the statement has been met with derision by social media users.

The Taliban had forcefully seized power in Afghanistan in August last year, ending 20 years of a democratically elected government in the process.

 

[oldman]

The refugee story is from the Independent

Britain has not set up a route for Ukrainian refugees to reach UK shores, it emerged last night, as thousands headed to the border following the Russian invasion.

The UK has stopped accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country, meaning there is no safe and legal route for them to seek asylum in Britain unless they have British relatives.

I think this is a bit dishonest, implying that because something has not been done instantly, it is not going to be done at all. Realistically refugees are going to have cross a land border first, be provided with shelter, then arrangements will be needed for resettlement for those who do not want to return to live under fascism. Continuing to issue visas would be difficult in a war zone.

(I agree with the general comments about Ms Patel.)

 

[takno]

What do you mean by 'officially' an English exonym? Commonly used certainly but not in the same category as Rome or Warsaw, where only the terminally-pretentious would use the name in the relevant national language.

In practice what's the difference? Warsaw most likely developed the English form it currently carries under foreign occupation.

As regards the "the" in the Ukraine, I've never heard anybody from the Ukraine complain about it all, in fact quite the opposite. Since articles are habitually dropped in Ukrainian, just as much as in other Slavic languages, it's pretty reasonable to suggest that most Ukrainians wouldn't particularly pick up on it anyway.

I think what's important to bear in mind about Kiev/Kyiv and Ukraine/The Ukraine is that that people will mostly be using one or the other based on familiarity, and certainly not to make a political statement.

 

[johncrossley]

And they say the voting in Eurovision is not political.

It may help some countries get a few more votes but it is highly unlikely to mean a country loses a lot of votes. Especially where the public telephone/internet vote comes in. People vote for the song they like the best. If political voting was to work against a country it would mean a lot of people deciding *not* to vote even they like the song. Most unlikely. Especially when you consider that Russia came second in 2015, soon after their annexing of Crimea.

 

[YorkshireBear]

What do we think will come of the threats to Finland and Sweden? I don't much like the sound of them at all.

I really don't like it. Because wasn't he saying this about Ukraine???

 

[Scotrail314209]

I really don't like it. Because wasn't he saying this about Ukraine???

I mean he pretty much did say the same to Ukraine.

We know it’s likely that if he dares make a move on those states that it will trigger an EU response, which basically drags NATO in anyway.

 

[Ediswan]

Anyone see the tank veer to the left and deliberately flatten a car ? Amazingly the poor old boy survived but looked extremely traumatised. Makes you wish someone could have chucked a couple of hand grenades in the tank and shut the lid down tight.

This is another case where 'what happened just before the incident' is missing from the most commonly shown clip, which makes it look like the tank had been going straight ahead. There are some more views here:
https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-...after-military-vehicle-runs-over-car-12551231
If you look from about 17s it appears from the marks on the road that the tank had just made a left turn and continued that turn.
Whether that was accidental or deliberate is a different question. Any one time tank drivers here to comment on handling when driven at speed on tarmac ?

 

[AlterEgo]

What do we think will come of the threats to Finland and Sweden? I don't much like the sound of them at all.

Nothing. Putin is slowly exhausting his political capital and hard power. He’ll be in for a long fight in Ukraine even if he does capture Kiev.

 

[najaB]

regards the "the" in the Ukraine, I've never heard anybody from the Ukraine complain about it all, in fact quite the opposite.

Seeing as the Government of Ukraine has an official campaign promoting both the use of Ukrainian-derived spelling of placenames, and referring to the country as Ukraine (without the definite article), I'm going to have to say that your personal experience is trumped by actual facts.

I think what's important to bear in mind about Kiev/Kyiv and Ukraine/The Ukraine is that that people will mostly be using one or the other based on familiarity, and certainly not to make a political statement.

The first time, maybe. But when they continue to do so despite the difference being explained to them...

 

[Darandio]

Apparently the situation is so bad that even the Taliban are calling for peace/calm (that's if they are running Afghanistan as the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan"):

You couldn't make it up if you tried. Given they are being the voice of reason I put forward a motion for them to take the place of Russia in Eurovision.

 

[dgl]

The thing is do the Russian troops on the ground actually want to fight other than fearing the repercussions if they don't, I guess not, that could be Putins downfall in the end.

 

[brad465]

The thing is do the Russian troops on the ground actually want to fight other than fearing the repercussions if they don't, I guess not, that could be Putins downfall in the end.

There's already clear resentment among the Russian population, given the protests we've seen in Russian cities, so it's possible soldiers have a similar mindset. While not ideal, the best we can hope for is Ukrainians hold off for as long as possible, so Russian casualties mount up to levels that cannot be accepted or hidden at home.

 

[oldman]

Warsaw most likely developed the English form it currently carries under foreign occupation.

As regards the "the" in the Ukraine'

'Most likely' - any reason for this statement? There were diplomatic relations long before the 18th century partitions.

The discussion about 'the' Ukraine was in relation to a member of this forum who seemed anxious to belittle Ukrainian national identity.