Russia invades Ukraine

[adc82140]

More likely they are being brought in to shoot any regulars trying to desert the military disaster they are embroiled in.

I wonder what percentage of the Russians fighting are conscripts?

 

[birchesgreen]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

 

[Roast Veg]

He won't. Kiev - apologies, Kyiv - will probably fall tonight.

A nightime attack on an urban environment is highly inadvisable. I would expect Russian ground forces to bed in where the front lines are and wait until morning, with missile strikes overnight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==

A nightime attack on an urban environment is highly inadvisable. I would expect Russian ground forces to bed in where the front lines are and wait until morning, with missile strikes overnight.

And not 30 seconds after I post this, air raid sirens start in Kyiv.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

Amazing. Good work as usual!

 

[Gathursty]

I'm not apologising for my posts wanting to crank up the pressure on Putin to an extreme pressure. Putin is currently laughing as he seemingly has the upper hand and is hell bent on his mission to redraw old Soviet borders.

It shouldn't be Zelenskyy fearful and having to hide away in his capital city. There should be a plan to force Putin into a spider hole and be dragged out of the ground in the same manner as Saddam Hussein was in Iraq. We shouldn't be respecting Putin or waiting for him to change at all. He should be put on notice that out of the 100 million or so people in Russia, the problem is with him and a few dozen hangers on. He should be feeling especially vulnerable and the fact that posters on here are still backing Putin is shameful. Russian people have been arrested for peacefully protesting that the war is wrong for goodness sake.

I know Ukraine is not in NATO and the West can't do much apart from sanctions and sending arms but I think we should be doing more to keep this bully in check.

It is not good enough for posters to reply saying b-b-b-b-but Putin's army is so strong and he has nuclear weapons too. Putin has crossed a line. He must be dealt with, not met in the middle. Putin should currently be feeling like Hitler did the moment he knew he wasn't leaving the Fuhrerbunker.

We must do better than saying 'can't do this, can't do that.'!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

While I don't know if I believe a 10:1 ratio, history shows that, all things being equal, it is 'easier' to defend than to attack.

Traditional military thinking holds that an attacker should have at least a 3:1 advantage in force before attempting an assault to have a good chance of succeeding. I thought it was interesting to see that the relative strengths of Russian:Ukrainian forces as reported by the BBC yesterday put the difference somewhere between 2 and 3:1. Of course this is a very generalised measure and assumes relative parity in other important factors such as air power and techy-stuff.

 

[brad465]

Russia banned from Eurovision:

Eurovision: Russia banned from competing at 2022 Song Contest

The organisers said the inclusion of Russia could bring the competition into disrepute.

www.bbc.co.uk

Russia will no longer be allowed to participate in this year's Eurovision Song Contest, the European Broadcasting Union has said.
The EBU, which produces the event, said Russia's inclusion could bring the competition into disrepute "in light of the unprecedented crisis in Ukraine".
Russia has launched a military assault on neighbouring Ukraine.
State broadcasters from countries including Iceland, Finland and Norway had called for Russia to be banned.

Looks like we might be finally getting somewhere in the world of entertainment, having seen the Champions League final moved, Russian GP cancelled, sports' sponsorship deals with Gazprom being canned and now this all today:

 

[baz962]

Banned from Eurovision , that'll teach him. Should of let them stay and hopefully they would of been so unpopular , at least we might of only come second last.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I didn't actually think the F1 would cancel the grand Prix to be honest!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==

The kremlin is now warning of serious consequences if Finland or Sweden join NATO. Bet that makes those countries feel real good!

 

[najaB]

Kiev - apologies, Kyiv - will probably fall tonight.

As far as I'm aware, when writing in English either spelling is acceptable - in much the same way that both Edinburgh and Edimburgo are acceptable when writing in Italian or Portuguese.

It's not in the same vein as "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine" as the latter is commonly used by those who seek to dismiss Ukraine's status as an independent country as the origin of the name is (apologies if I get the spelling wrong) Ur Krania - which literally translates as "The Borderlands". As the closest analogy I can think of, it would be like a British person referring to Canada or Australia as "The Colonies".

 

[AlterEgo]

UK should become subservient to? Hahahaha!! You still don't get it, do you? Empire days are long since gone!!

So countries shouldn’t have self-determination then?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==

I'm not apologising for my posts wanting to crank up the pressure on Putin to an extreme pressure. Putin is currently laughing as he seemingly has the upper hand and is hell bent on his mission to redraw old Soviet borders.

It shouldn't be Zelenskyy fearful and having to hide away in his capital city. There should be a plan to force Putin into a spider hole and be dragged out of the ground in the same manner as Saddam Hussein was in Iraq. We shouldn't be respecting Putin or waiting for him to change at all. He should be put on notice that out of the 100 million or so people in Russia, the problem is with him and a few dozen hangers on. He should be feeling especially vulnerable and the fact that posters on here are still backing Putin is shameful. Russian people have been arrested for peacefully protesting that the war is wrong for goodness sake.

I know Ukraine is not in NATO and the West can't do much apart from sanctions and sending arms but I think we should be doing more to keep this bully in check.

It is not good enough for posters to reply saying b-b-b-b-but Putin's army is so strong and he has nuclear weapons too. Putin has crossed a line. He must be dealt with, not met in the middle. Putin should currently be feeling like Hitler did the moment he knew he wasn't leaving the Fuhrerbunker.

We must do better than saying 'can't do this, can't do that.'!

Thank you for outlining the case for nuclear war. Count me out though.

 

[Trackman]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

Unless they have close UK relatives plus they are extending visa's for Ukrainians already in the UK, still not enough though.
It wasn't a problem with for Syrian refugees though was it?

I didn't actually think the F1 would cancel the grand Prix to be honest!

FIA thinking might be a lot of teams will just boycott it anyway.

 

[transportphoto]

Russia Today was still on Freeview channel 234 in the very early hours of this morning, showing damage to areas held by the separatist-held parts of the Dombass region and a street interview with a very old woman there. Why has that channel not been taken down?

I think we discussed this briefly last night, I had a further thought after posting - was RT ever taken down/similar after the Salisbury Novichok incident, or the Litvinenko murder?

 

[Richard Scott]

Current reports seem to suggest that Russian military losses are around 10 times greater than that on the Ukrainian side. Hopefully these reports are correct.

A death is a death whichever side it's on. I expect there are many Russians who don't want to be there. Remember every person has a family. It's just a sad waste of life.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I see the UK is no longer accepting visa applications from Ukrainians stuck in the country and cutting off any entry for refugees. We're right behind you Ukraine, in spirit, and as long as you stay a long way away!

They've got no money so no interest.

 

[Roast Veg]

A death is a death whichever side it's on. I expect there are many Russians who don't want to be there. Remember every person has a family. It's just a sad waste of life.

Every death on both sides is a tragedy. I support the sovereignty of Ukraine, and evidence for a successful defence of its sovereignty is welcome, tragedy notwithstanding.

I do feel sorry for the Russian soldiers. Camped out in awful conditions for months waiting for the ground to freeze over, only to find that never happen and a subsequent high-risk attack on easily defensible urban targets. I hope sincerely that Russian military command have some empathy for their men and call this farce off as soon as possible.

 

[najaB]

I hope sincerely that Russian military command have some empathy for their men and call this farce off as soon as possible.

The problem being that that's the first step on the path to a coup or civil war.

 

[Roast Veg]

The problem being that that's the first step on the path to a coup or civil war.

I use the term in as wide a reach as possible - that is, all the way to the top. A Russian coup or civil war would help no-one.

 

[Chingy]

NATO sending troops onto their eastern borders (for assurance and defense bolstering), Putin threatening severe military consequences should Finland & Sweden join NATO, China refusing to condemn the invasion, the road is becoming ever more perilous as the hours go by.

 

[Annetts key]

I like seeing some of the sabre rattling on here from folks saying "we" should be getting involved with the fighting, they must be posting from the cockpits of their Typhoons perhaps... or not.

I thought the Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II is the current state of the art RAF fighter jet. But if I was a trained RAF pilot, and had either a F-35B Lightning II or a Eurofighter Typhoon available, with all the backup that would be needed, yes, I would be up for working to implement a no fly zone over Ukraine.

We are still taking their oil and gas because we've allowed the N.Sea assets to be run down in the name of climate change. I'd rather we exploit what we have when we know it will be done in a way that complies with environmental regulations as well as providing work for our countries people not Putin mates who exploit there staff and have scant regard for the environment.

We should have already reduced our need for fossil fuels, then we would no longer need to import them. We burn through far too much energy for no good reason. Our buildings needlessly leak so much heat, you would think the fossil fuel was free…

Europe will have to break it's dependency on Russian fossil fuels sooner or later. Might as well be sooner.

Absolutely.

 

[trainmania100]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why not send a missile onto Russia and destroy Putin? Surely every country with some sense would see what Russia is doing is bad . Is it a question of the missiles not reaching?

I suppose if it fails and gets traced back to somewhere they'll be in a lot of trouble...

 

[baz962]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why not send a missile onto Russia and destroy Putin? Surely every country with some sense would see what Russia is doing is bad . Is it a question of the missiles not reaching?

Because they would nuke us to absolute annihilation.

 

[Ediswan]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why not send a missile onto Russia and destroy Putin? Surely every country with some sense would see what Russia is doing is bad . Is it a question of the missiles not reaching?

Also highly unlikely to work. Moscow has a very capable missile defence system.

 

[LOL The Irony]

FIA thinking might be a lot of teams will just boycott it anyway.

Vettel has already public stated he wouldn't rock up and I think you're right, the number would just grow.

I thought the Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II is the current state of the art RAF fighter jet. But if I was a trained RAF pilot, and had either a F-35B Lightning II or a Eurofighter Typhoon available, with all the backup that would be needed, yes, I would be up for working to implement a no fly zone over Ukraine.

You'd want to be in the Typhoon. The f-35 is only good as a ground attack fighter.

 

[duncanp]

Banned from Eurovision , that'll teach him. Should of let them stay and hopefully they would of been so unpopular , at least we might of only come second last.

I'm sure Putin is going to be *****ing himself over Russia being banned from Eurovision, and it will make him sit up and think.

No doubt even if Russia was still competing, the UK would still come last.

The last time the UK won Eurovision was in 1997, a matter of days after the election of a more EU friendly government led by Tony Blair.

And they say the voting in Eurovision is not political.

 

[Roast Veg]

You'd want to be in the Typhoon. The f-35 is only good as a ground attack fighter.

Agreed. In terms of pure flight characteristics the F35 is actually more limited than its predecessor (but its massive advantages lie outside of flight speed and manuevrability alone).

 

[43096]

As far as I'm aware, when writing in English either spelling is acceptable - in much the same way that both Edinburgh and Edimburgo are acceptable when writing in Italian or Portuguese.

As I understand it, Kiev is derived from the Russian spelling, Kyiv derived from the Ukrainian spelling. So Kyiv it is.

 

[JamesT]

As far as I'm aware, when writing in English either spelling is acceptable - in much the same way that both Edinburgh and Edimburgo are acceptable when writing in Italian or Portuguese.

It's not in the same vein as "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine" as the latter is commonly used by those who seek to dismiss Ukraine's status as an independent country as the origin of the name is (apologies if I get the spelling wrong) Ur Krania - which literally translates as "The Borderlands". As the closest analogy I can think of, it would be like a British person referring to Canada or Australia as "The Colonies".

My understanding is that Kiev is the romanisation of the Russian name for the city, whereas Kyiv is the romanisation for the Ukrainian name.
Language is an important part of national identity, some see the use of Russian names as a colonial imposition from the Soviet era. Maybe an analogy would be continuing to refer to Madras and Calcutta instead of Chennai and Kolkata?

 

[Scotrail314209]

UN resolution deploring invasion vetoed – as it happened

Reports say artillery rounds and large blasts were heard in Ukrainian capital; Russia vetoes UN resolution deploring invasion of Ukraine

www.theguardian.com

Thermal Power Plant outside Kyiv destroyed.

The Russian army has reportedly destroyed the Kyiv thermal power plant, says Kyiv mayor Vitali Klitschko, a sign that Russia’s army is targeting critical infrastructure in the capital city.

This announcement follows another report from Klitschko that five blasts were heard in three to five minutes near a power station located north of Kyiv, reported the Telegraph.

“The emergency services are underway. We’re finding out the details,” said Klitschko of the five blasts. “The situation now - without exaggeration - is threatening for Kyiv. The night, close to the morning, will be very difficult.”

 

[Roast Veg]

My understanding is that Kiev is the romanisation of the Russian name for the city, whereas Kyiv is the romanisation for the Ukrainian name.
Language is an important part of national identity, some see the use of Russian names as a colonial imposition from the Soviet era. Maybe an analogy would be continuing to refer to Madras and Calcutta instead of Chennai and Kolkata?

The terms is an "exonym". Kiev is officially both an English and Russian exonym, where the former is derived from the latter. So is Chernobyl, as it happens. I wouldn't rush to correct anybody using either term as they have been definitively co-opted into English thanks to the Soviet Union. Wikipedia has a great list of them.