Minor things on trains which irritate you

[Bletchleyite]

And I’m sure you’ll all enjoy your day in court

I would more than happily take a day's annual leave to stand up and give evidence against anyone who considers this highly antisocial and easily avoidable practice acceptable.

Just use headphones. It is not in the slightest bit hard, and they are dirt-cheap.

But the reason I responded strongly to the OP was that he did it deliberately to annoy others in the hope they would move - and that is grossly antisocial and has no place in any public space of any kind. You ask nicely, and you accept refusal gracefully. And if it's that important and that train doesn't have any seats together, you take a different one.

FWIW my personal policy is that I will move if I am asked nicely, but I will not move if I am asked rudely or with any kind of self entitlement or complaint, provided the offered seat is acceptable (i.e. enough legroom for me to physically fit, and not a "window blank" seat). The exception is that I will not, unless instructed by staff, move from my reserved seat into a seat marked reserved because I could later lose it to the reserver (most trains don't show different reservations separately, so "reserved to Manchester Piccadilly" may mean several sets - I've been caught out by that before!)

Given the attitude shown in the OP's post, I suspect they didn't ask nicely, and so people didn't move.

 

[greyman42]

That’s a bit harsh to a new member,a real welcome to the forum!
The trouble with children is that unless they’re entertained in some way they become more irritating to others so watching an iPad is probably better than having them running around and shouting/screaming etc.

When i was a child i used to love going on the train and was quite happy to sit and look out of the window.

 

[RobDaglish]

I would more than happily take a day's annual leave to stand up and give evidence against anyone who considers this highly antisocial and easily avoidable practice acceptable.

Just use headphones. It is not in the slightest bit hard, and they are dirt-cheap.

But the reason I responded strongly to the OP was that he did it deliberately to annoy others in the hope they would move - and that is grossly antisocial and has no place in any public space of any kind. You ask nicely, and you accept refusal gracefully. And if it's that important and that train doesn't have any seats together, you take a different one.

FWIW my personal policy is that I will move if I am asked nicely, but I will not move if I am asked rudely or with any kind of self entitlement or complaint, provided the offered seat is acceptable (i.e. enough legroom for me to physically fit, and not a "window blank" seat). The exception is that I will not, unless instructed by staff, move from my reserved seat into a seat marked reserved because I could later lose it to the reserver (most trains don't show different reservations separately, so "reserved to Manchester Piccadilly" may mean several sets - I've been caught out by that before!)

Given the attitude shown in the OP's post, I suspect they didn't ask nicely, and so people didn't move.

Wow. Make a lot of assumptions about other people’s behaviour, Bletchleyite? My original post was slightly tongue-in-cheek, I’m afraid that didn’t come across to you.

However, to your specific points:

I agree there isn’t a bogeyman around every corner. However, I’ve spent the best part of 25 years working in an environment where that is the assumption you make about every adult, as the children you are working with aren’t your own, and you have to take as much care as you can with them. Can you really blame me for wanting to extend that same protection to my own children?

I asked Avanti about it on a number of occasions, and was met with the lack of customer care I’ve come to associate with rail travel, to be honest. I’d much rather use the car (and it’s a bell of a lot cheaper, to be honest), but the eldest child loves trains.

I explained the situation to a number of people, and then asked if they would consider swapping seats please, however nobody felt able to accommodate what I thought was a perfectly reasonable request. It didn’t help that Avanti had seemingly double booked reservations too.

We don’t normally carry headphones - they tend to tangle, and as they don’t get used very often, are normally defunct between one trip and the next. The reason they don’t get used isn’t that we’re terrible oiks as you seem determined to believe, but normally they wouldn’t be on the iPads during the journey - we’d much rather play games with them believe it or not! The iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to be able to hear.

As for joining just for trolling - I joined the forum 03/05/21 to ask if anyone knew what would replace 156s up the Cumbrian Coast, and have followed keenly your updates on the 230s, so make of that what you will…

 

[py_megapixel]

We don’t normally carry headphones - they tend to tangle, and as they don’t get used very often, are normally defunct between one trip and the next. The reason they don’t get used isn’t that we’re terrible oiks as you seem determined to believe, but normally they wouldn’t be on the iPads during the journey - we’d much rather play games with them believe it or not! The iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to be able to hear.

Can you not understand how people would still find that immensely annoying? The suggestion of your post was that the train was fairly well loaded: there may well have been 30 or 40 people in the carriage. How do you know that none of those had any kind of sensory difficulties which would this problematic? How could you be sure that the people who refused to move were just being stubborn, and didn't have some specific reason to remain in that seat?

Can you really blame me for wanting to extend that same protection to my own children?

No. But it seems like you were quite organised and had planned this trip well in advance, and are the owner of three iPads - which isn't cheap by any stretch, so could presumably afford a few pairs of basic headphones.
So I can see how your expectation that the rest of the carriage listens to whatever rubbish your children are watching because "headphones tend to tangle" would come across as a bit self-entitled.

 

[Techniquest]

I concur self-entitlement does come across quite a bit, but I'm also looking at this from another point of view. That is that the children all had something to keep them occupied, which is at least a good thing. I think I would prefer that to seeing endless amounts of children running around the train (endless over the course of an average year, that is), or even worse a child crying out for something and the parent(s) purposefully ignoring the child to talk on the phone or something else, usually with earphones in.

Doing such a thing as encouraging passengers to move after being asked, as on page 11 of this thread, I have to say I would not be too keen on seeing that and I am mighty tempted to wave my finger at the relevant forum member. However, I'll instead commend the fact they've taken the train to please the eldest of the trio. Not having even a basic set of earphones, for the reason of not using them often, is a bit unusual but I get the annoyance of tangled earphones!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I did notice that. I wonder if they joined the forum to troll, but certainly I will not give any time to anyone, whether on their first post or 10,000th, who believes that deliberately annoying other passengers in order to get what they want is in any way acceptable, because it isn't.

I quote again:

Passengers with reservations tend to be resistant to moving for any reason, even when the situation is explained and they are asked politely, so the kids all got an iPad as noisy as possible in the hope that we’d eventually be able to sit near the kids.

This is utterly inexcusable and unacceptable self-entitled, selfish behaviour. If the OP feels that way they should travel exclusively by car.

If you want others to move, you ask nicely. Or you approach traincrew, who may help. You absolutely do not act in breach of a Railway Byelaw to the deliberate annoyance of others in the hope that they move. Ever.



No excuse. Simply use headphones. If you can afford an iPad you can probably afford fancy ones, but if not they can be had for about £5 on eBay or Amazon. You simply do not play devices out loud in public, end of.

What the OP did is a Byelaw breach (or would be if I were on that train, as it would 100% guaranteed be "to my annoyance"). It needs prosecuting, not excusing.

I completely agree with you. Driving passengers out of their seat by what is basically torture in order to occupy it yourself is unacceptable.

 

[PaulJ]

I like the way it's been done on the Greater Anglia Stadler units where the sockets are below the seats, between the two seats. What is clever is that sockets have been put in "upside down" (i.e. the neutral is at the bottom) which makes it much easier to plug in when sitting in the seat, as the natural movement to plug in flips the plug through 180deg so the neutral is at the bottom (if that makes sense!). Much easier than having to do a conjurer's trick, which is what is needed in many other cases.

Whilst we're on the subject of power sockets and irritations, the ones in an IET freeze the screen on my phone, to the point of it being unusable while plugged in. That is appalling design by Hitachi and makes you wonder what else is dubious electrically on those units.

Hope you don't wire plugs! It's the earth not the neutral!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2022 ==

I've thought of another one:

Toilet paper dispensers that are so full that you can't get any out without it either tearing to shreds or you ending up with a huge wedge of sheets in your hands.

Although this is better than no toilet paper at all!

Bring your own T key so you can get at it more readily!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2022 ==

I've thought of another one:

Toilet paper dispensers that are so full that you can't get any out without it either tearing to shreds or you ending up with a huge wedge of sheets in your hands.

Although this is better than no toilet paper at all!

Bring your own T key so you can get at it more readily!

 

[43096]

Hope you don't wire plugs! It's the earth not the neutral!

D'oh, yes.


Mind you, hope no-one else on here is wiring plugs, either - took someone long enough to notice!

 

[Ashley Hill]

When i was a child i used to love going on the train and was quite happy to sit and look out of the window.

As was I. I used to be fascinated by the telegraph wires going up and down as a nipper. Unfortunately my nephew couldn’t give a toss about the Dawlish sea wall,Burrow Mump or the White Horse of Westbury etc and will complain he’s bored with increasing volume and regularity until you put YouTube in front of him (with headphones).

 

[mmh]

Similarly - but in reverse - the auto announcers on the Northern 333s, when a train arrives at the stop before its terminating point and the doors release, state loudly "The next station is Skipton/Ilkley/Leeds/Bradford FS. This train terminates here". Cue a mad scramble by foreign visitors - and others not familiar with the route - to gather up their luggage/children/pets/bicycles or whatever and make a premature dash for the doors. Far better to say "The next station is......This train terminates at the next station".

Foreign visitors? Are there lots on trains stopping at Skipton/Ilkley/Leeds/Bradford?

 

[43096]

Foreign visitors? Are there lots on trains stopping at Skipton/Ilkley/Leeds/Bradford?

Anyone from outside Yorkshire, presumably.

 

[Whistler40145]

electronic seat reservation system not working on Pendolinos or showing available when that isn’t true.

USB or power sockets not working, has this issue on a LNER 91+Mk 4 set, looked ready for the scrap man

 

[Jimini]

electronic seat reservation system not working on Pendolinos or showing available when that isn’t true.

Same on the Voyagers we’ve been on recently as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow. Make a lot of assumptions about other people’s behaviour, Bletchleyite? My original post was slightly tongue-in-cheek, I’m afraid that didn’t come across to you.

However, to your specific points:

I agree there isn’t a bogeyman around every corner. However, I’ve spent the best part of 25 years working in an environment where that is the assumption you make about every adult, as the children you are working with aren’t your own, and you have to take as much care as you can with them. Can you really blame me for wanting to extend that same protection to my own children?

I don't believe that is the right culture to extend onto your children, no. Overprotection is in my view quite harmful, and suggesting that a child is likely to come to harm by sitting next to a random adult on a train is hyperbolic in the extreme and harmful to them and society. If you work in that context you will be well aware that most abusers are known to children, and aren't random people who meet them once on an open, CCTV covered train. But maybe one for a thread on General Discussion.

HOWEVER, if that is your belief, and you have a right to hold that belief, you don't have any right at all to use it to influence the actions of others, which is what you stated you did. And if you came to me and asked me to move with any even slight hint of that sort of undertone, no, I would absolutely not be moving.

Apologies if any of it was tongue in cheek and misinterpreted, but your reply seems to confirm that the general gist of it wasn't...

I asked Avanti about it on a number of occasions, and was met with the lack of customer care I’ve come to associate with rail travel, to be honest. I’d much rather use the car (and it’s a bell of a lot cheaper, to be honest), but the eldest child loves trains.

I explained the situation to a number of people, and then asked if they would consider swapping seats please, however nobody felt able to accommodate what I thought was a perfectly reasonable request. It didn’t help that Avanti had seemingly double booked reservations too.

Unfortunately, then, you have to accept their having declined gracefully.

We don’t normally carry headphones - they tend to tangle, and as they don’t get used very often, are normally defunct between one trip and the next. The reason they don’t get used isn’t that we’re terrible oiks as you seem determined to believe, but normally they wouldn’t be on the iPads during the journey - we’d much rather play games with them believe it or not! The iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to be able to hear.

Then the iPads should have been off. It is a breach of the Railway Byelaws to play devices out loud to someone's annoyance, and you can be sure it would have annoyed someone.

That headphones are a hassle to you does not excuse you causing annoyance to others.

If you were at your wits' end, perhaps again a polite request to anyone within earshot if they would mind. This might have produced the loan of some earphones, or a polite refusal, which again must be accepted gracefully.

Bear in mind that for many people a quiet film is more annoying than if they were watching it! It is different from conversation in how the brain responds to it.

As for joining just for trolling - I joined the forum 03/05/21 to ask if anyone knew what would replace 156s up the Cumbrian Coast, and have followed keenly your updates on the 230s, so make of that what you will…

It was a good attempt! If it is a genuinely held view that this behaviour was in any way acceptable, I hope I never ever have to share a train with you. And that is sincerely held. The entertainment of your children is simply not more important than others' enjoyment of their journey, and you have no right to breach the Railway Byelaws simply to make your life easier because carrying a couple of pairs of headphones would be a bit annoying.

There is simply no valid excuse to ever play electronic devices out loud on a train. It is grossly antisocial and selfish. It is a statement that the viewer/listener is more important than everyone else.

 

[D6130]

Anyone from outside Yorkshire, presumably.

....particularly those from Lancashire!

 

[ungreat]

People who walk up the side of the train after getting off inches from the side despite the constant messages to "walk behind the yellow line"

 

[Mordac]

People who stick out the legs into the aisle when you're trying to walk down it.

 

[Ken H]

People who stick out the legs into the aisle when you're trying to walk down it.

Try being 6'6" tall.

 

[modernrail]

Wow. Make a lot of assumptions about other people’s behaviour, Bletchleyite? My original post was slightly tongue-in-cheek, I’m afraid that didn’t come across to you.

However, to your specific points:

I agree there isn’t a bogeyman around every corner. However, I’ve spent the best part of 25 years working in an environment where that is the assumption you make about every adult, as the children you are working with aren’t your own, and you have to take as much care as you can with them. Can you really blame me for wanting to extend that same protection to my own children?

I asked Avanti about it on a number of occasions, and was met with the lack of customer care I’ve come to associate with rail travel, to be honest. I’d much rather use the car (and it’s a bell of a lot cheaper, to be honest), but the eldest child loves trains.

I explained the situation to a number of people, and then asked if they would consider swapping seats please, however nobody felt able to accommodate what I thought was a perfectly reasonable request. It didn’t help that Avanti had seemingly double booked reservations too.

We don’t normally carry headphones - they tend to tangle, and as they don’t get used very often, are normally defunct between one trip and the next. The reason they don’t get used isn’t that we’re terrible oiks as you seem determined to believe, but normally they wouldn’t be on the iPads during the journey - we’d much rather play games with them believe it or not! The iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to be able to hear.

As for joining just for trolling - I joined the forum 03/05/21 to ask if anyone knew what would replace 156s up the Cumbrian Coast, and have followed keenly your updates on the 230s, so make of that what you will…

The bit of this I struggle with is ‘the iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to hear’.

Does that mean we should all accept everybody listening to a device as loud as they think they need to? Obviously not. Just carry and use headphones. If the kids need to be told, they need to be told. Does that mean the carriage needs to accept listening to a bit of discipline being metered out and maybe a bit of meltdown, yes and I hope parents don’t feel they should be embarrassed about that being overheard.

It would however be lovely if the booking system could in some way work in the first place. Parents need to be able to plan yet the systems seem designed to annoy. Either splitting people up or not giving you the types of seat you have asked for when they are available. It shouldn’t be hard and it is deeply annoying. Public transport could be a lot more family friendly.

 

[nlogax]

The reason they don’t get used isn’t that we’re terrible oiks as you seem determined to believe, but normally they wouldn’t be on the iPads during the journey - we’d much rather play games with them believe it or not! The iPads were on as loud as needed for the kids to be able to hear.

This is a perfect reason to carry a spare couple of pairs of cheap earbuds and a maybe a headphone splitter too. Store them away in a pouch so they don't get damaged.

 

[yorksrob]

Are "the kids" not capable of using earphones ?

 

[Mordac]

Try being 6'6" tall.

Being tall already gives you an advantage in almost every area of life. Public transport isn't one of them. That doesn't excuse making people trip over you.

 

[75A]

Being tall already gives you an advantage in almost every area of life. Public transport isn't one of them. That doesn't excuse making people trip over you.

Where are we supposed to put our legs then?
I'm 6 foot 7'

 

[Mordac]

Where are we supposed to put our legs then?
I'm 6 foot 7'

My complaint is not necessarily about putting your feet out into the aisle. even though I do find it annoying, I can understand needing to do it. It's on not pulling them back when people go past.

 

[Ken H]

My complaint is not necessarily about putting your feet out into the aisle. even though I do find it annoying, I can understand needing to do it. It's on not pulling them back when people go past.

I do. but all you have to say is 'Excuse me' if I dont notice you.

 

[HST274]

Where are we supposed to put our legs then?
I'm 6 foot 7'

In a bag

 

[Blindtraveler]

Imagine the dilemma cause to someone like myself who can't see when someone wants past but yet feels the need to spread out.

 

[75A]

in a bag

Ha Ha

 

[Bletchleyite]

My complaint is not necessarily about putting your feet out into the aisle. even though I do find it annoying, I can understand needing to do it. It's on not pulling them back when people go past.

I have never, ever come across someone who refused to move their legs on purpose, it's a non-issue, just ask them to move! They can't see you if you approach from behind.

Worse is 3+2 seating where backsides extend over and often can't be moved. It is not fit for UK width vehicles and should all be removed.

 

[Ken H]

I have never, ever come across someone who refused to move their legs on purpose, it's a non-issue, just ask them to move! They can't see you if you approach from behind.

Worse is 3+2 seating where backsides extend over and often can't be moved. It is not fit for UK width vehicles and should all be removed.

I think the people who specify and design trains must have old data about the size of people. We are definitely taller than people were in the 50's and many many people are wider. changing diets is the cause, I believe.