Gatwick Express stock

[swt_passenger]

Eh? AFAIK 4a and 4b is being done away with.

Not sure how the new layout is but I would suspect longer platforms but with the railways you can never tell.

The three extended platforms for the Southern side will be 12 car, and they will be 4,5, and 6 (south to north) in the renumbered scheme. The work is underway now, with the Vastern Rd bridge extension southwards being the current area (albeit with less disruption so far than the other end of the station).

However, stations between Reading and Virginia Water are not part of the CP4 enhancement plan, so that suggests the actual service to Reading will remain 8 car initially, as using SDO for 9 stations in a row would be an operating nightmare.

AFAICT it is important to differentiate between line names and services when discussing these plans, I've noticed a number of occasions in the rail press when they've written 'Windsor service' or 'Windsor route' when they should have said 'Windsor side' - which is the collective term used by NR for all the routes via Putney...

 

[MCR247]

I knew p4a/b at Reading are to be lengthened but not sure when? Endless potential cos theres loads of places they could go. If they were converted to ac, they could be used with HX, if it can be done no matter how difficult, how much would it cost per unit?

But HX don't need them? So that isn't really potential? They are needed as DC units

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 450/5s would be converted back to standard 450/0s and Reading line services would revert to all 450 use.

:roll: So now I need to prioritise clearing my 450/5 photos before they regain their original numbers...?

 

[MCR247]

Just curious, so if you'd cleared 450043, would you count that you'd cleared 543?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not for a photo - I consider for a photo it has to be "as the number carried" to count although for the haulage as it's all the same vehicles I don't differentiate in that way ( although I know some who do and have to "bash" things again if the number is changed! ).

 

[tbtc]

But HX don't need them? So that isn't really potential? They are needed as DC units

Agreed - Heathrow Express is a non-starter - its not like they are short of stock

Maybe, in an ideal world, you'd get something new on HX and move the 332s to Northern to work alongside the 333s on newly electrified routes like Leeds - Knaresborough, but there's zero chance.

 

[MCR247]

Thats where I think 460s would have been good if they were convertible to AC

 

[tbtc]

Thats where I think 460s would have been good if they were convertible to AC

I like your thinking.

A shame they weren't built dual voltage - they are only ten years old - I thought all new DC units ought to be built with scope for AC conversion?

 

[MCR247]

Exactly, it would be amazing for 460s to replace 332s, because HX have 14 332s, and a lot are doubled up.

It must be possible to convert 460s to DV, and surely it would be cheaper than re-building the driving cars removing the luggage thing and giving them new cabs for SWT? 332s could then also replace 321s for Northern or whatever

 

[tbtc]

Exactly, it would be amazing for 460s to replace 332s, because HX have 14 332s, and a lot are doubled up.

It must be possible to convert 460s to DV, and surely it would be cheaper than re-building the driving cars removing the luggage thing and giving them new cabs for SWT? 332s could then also replace 321s for Northern or whatever

This is why I find Kingfisher200262 's comments about modular units which can (relatively) easily be changed to suit circumstances interesting.

The 460s were built to one purpose, but will be expensive to amend them to be suitable for "normal" work.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is why I find Kingfisher200262 's comments about modular units which can (relatively) easily be changed to suit circumstances interesting.

The 460s were built to one purpose, but will be expensive to amend them to be suitable for "normal" work.

AFAIK the wiring in the Juniper family isn't up to the latest standards, making conversion to AC very expensive indeed. This was raised a few years ago when it was mooted that the 458s may be going to Scotland before SWT did a U-turn.

 

[MCR247]

More expensive than building new cabs and converting the luggage area? Shame

 

[tbtc]

AFAIK the wiring in the Juniper family isn't up to the latest standards, making conversion to AC very expensive indeed. This was raised a few years ago when it was mooted that the 458s may be going to Scotland before SWT did a U-turn.

Cheers for letting us know - shame that as they are going to be pretty limited units (at a time when a lot of the UK needs longer trains)

 

[TheWalrus]

Agreed - Heathrow Express is a non-starter - its not like they are short of stock

Maybe, in an ideal world, you'd get something new on HX and move the 332s to Northern to work alongside the 333s on newly electrified routes like Leeds - Knaresborough, but there's zero chance.

Thats what I would do, plus 332s are a pain for line capacity!
Shouldnt SWTs use of 460s release an EMU for Lymington?

 

[Crossforth]

As much as I reckon it would be good to put the 460s with HX and send some 332s north, would the 460s fit though the tunnels?

 

[Drsatan]

As much as I reckon it would be good to put the 460s with HX and send some 332s north, would the 460s fit though the tunnels?

They should do since they're built to the same loading gauge.

 

[Crossforth]

They should do since they're built to the same loading gauge.

Ah right, I have no idea what the tunnels are like a Heathrow or what the 460s are like in comparison to 332s

 

[Juniper Driver]

The three extended platforms for the Southern side will be 12 car, and they will be 4,5, and 6 (south to north) in the renumbered scheme. The work is underway now, with the Vastern Rd bridge extension southwards being the current area (albeit with less disruption so far than the other end of the station).

However, stations between Reading and Virginia Water are not part of the CP4 enhancement plan, so that suggests the actual service to Reading will remain 8 car initially, as using SDO for 9 stations in a row would be an operating nightmare.

AFAICT it is important to differentiate between line names and services when discussing these plans, I've noticed a number of occasions in the rail press when they've written 'Windsor service' or 'Windsor route' when they should have said 'Windsor side' - which is the collective term used by NR for all the routes via Putney...

Agree,they should revert away from that selective door opening stuff but I thought it would be special stops and not the lot anyway.

 

[Goldfish62]

T
However, stations between Reading and Virginia Water are not part of the CP4 enhancement plan, so that suggests the actual service to Reading will remain 8 car initially, as using SDO for 9 stations in a row would be an operating nightmare.

Actually, 10 stations if you include Longcross (but 9 towards Reading as Wokingham was recently extended to 12 coaches on the down platform).

Do I qualify for Pedant of the Week?

 

[swt_passenger]

Actually, 10 stations if you include Longcross (but 9 towards Reading as Wokingham was recently extended to 12 coaches on the down platform).

Do I qualify for Pedant of the Week?

No, but I qualify for 'worst at counting' of the week. I just didn't include Virginia Water...

I think this is sometimes referred to as the 'fence post problem'...

 

[RobShipway]

Living 5 minutes walk from Martins Heron, it would be good to have the ability to just pop on a train to Heathrow rather than having to travel to either Reading to get the RailAir Coach or Feltham to get the bus to the Airport.

 

[Ministry]

I've noticed in the past week or so that the 460s seem to have disappeared - does anyone know if the entire fleet is now offlease?

 

[RobShipway]

The class 460's where to be phased out from December 2010, so you may find them in Eastleigh with the carriages awaiting to be changed to be commuter vehicles.

 

[MCR247]

The class 460's where to be phased out from December 2010, so you may find them in Eastleigh with the carriages awaiting to be changed to be commuter vehicles.

That has not even been confirmed, it was just a plan

 

[Goldfish62]

That has not even been confirmed, it was just a plan

Yes, the proposal is still awaiting DfT approval. Meanwhile platform extension work has started on the Windsor lines so we may end up with modern stock which could be used to ease overcrowding in long term store and new platform extensions which aren't needed.

 

[swt_passenger]

The class 460's where to be phased out from December 2010, so you may find them in Eastleigh with the carriages awaiting to be changed to be commuter vehicles.

The 460 units off lease are stored at Chart Leacon. Conversion remains a proposal so far, but if it went ahead I think it would be done in a works where they are familiar with major conversions, such as at Wabtec Doncaster.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, the proposal is still awaiting DfT approval. Meanwhile platform extension work has started on the Windsor lines so we may end up with modern stock which could be used to ease overcrowding in long term store and new platform extensions which aren't needed.

That would be extremely unlikely. NR seem to be extremely careful to avoid doing platform extensions out of sync with rolling stock availability. Where DfT hasn't come up with a plan yet for the necesary stock, the latest update for the CP4 enhancement plan has shown the work as delayed - such as in the 'Northern Capacity' HLOS plans - that are all currently on hold.

The fact that work has started on the Windsor lines, such as the Barnes crossover relocation - should be seen positively I reckon...

 

[55003]

I've noticed in the past week or so that the 460s seem to have disappeared - does anyone know if the entire fleet is now offlease?

I saw one this morning north of Horley about an hour ago

 

[theblackwatch]

460001 and 460007 were both in service on Tuesday (29th).